Prospect Info: Jacob Bernard-Docker (D) 3 year ELC signed

[Micklebot]

Both Kastelic and Greig can be put on LTIR retroactively to the 3rd of Nov, and are eligible to come off for the game on 5 Dec, which lines up with Chabot's expected return, so we should be fine. If Chabot is ready earlier, you put Kastelic and if needed Greig on LTIR to give us a spot for a replacement, Chabot should be back before JBD needs to be sent down.

 

[sennysensen]

When (if) we have a full roster Dec 5, we'll be back to the tight cap situation of early in the season.

The solution is to carry 7 D instead of 13 F. If a D gets injured, we still can play 6 D instead of playing 5 for 1 game after which emergency recall is allowed. If a F gets injured, we go 11-7 which is much better than going 12-5.

Hamonic becomes the extra player / 7th D. JBD stays in the lineup as the 6D, as he is clearly better than Hamonic.

In the short term injury situation, Hamonic plays D in the 11-7 situation, plays like 7-8 sheltered minutes. For the next game, we call up a F under emergency recall, go back to 12-6, and Hamonic goes back to the press box.

When Pinto returns (if nobody is on LTIR) if he signs for $800,000 or so, we can make room for him by sending Kastelic or Chartier to the AHL. And keep going with 12 F and 7 D on the roster.

If Pinto signs for like 1 year $2 mil, we pretty much need to trade Kubalik. Unless we can sign Pinto to a Connor Brown deal: 1 year $800,000 with a bonus of $1.2 million if he plays 10 games. The $1.2 mil goes on next season's cap, just like it did for Brown.

Here's a loophole to exploit... after Jan 1, Pinto can sign a longer extension that starts 2024-25 after a 2023-24 contract is signed.

If the agent agrees with team on say 3 years $6 million, have Pinto sign a 1 year $800,000 contract for 2023-24. And shake hands on a 2 year $5.2 mil extension that will be signed the next day, before Pinto plays a game (to eliminate injury risk). The extension does not affect the 2023-24 cap at all. I doubt the NHL can call shenanigans, look at the Oilers Connor Brown deal that pushes $3 mil of the cap hit to next season. And the team and agent can say they signed the 1 year deal, and immediately began negotiating the 2 year extension, they are separate transactions.

 

[Golden_Jet]

When (if) we have a full roster Dec 5, we'll be back to the tight cap situation of early in the season.

The solution is to carry 7 D instead of 13 F. If a D gets injured, we still can play 6 D instead of playing 5 for 1 game after which emergency recall is allowed. If a F gets injured, we go 11-7 which is much better than going 12-5.

Hamonic becomes the extra player / 7th D. JBD stays in the lineup as the 6D, as he is clearly better than Hamonic.

In the short term injury situation, Hamonic plays D in the 11-7 situation, plays like 7-8 sheltered minutes. For the next game, we call up a F under emergency recall, go back to 12-6, and Hamonic goes back to the press box.

When Pinto returns (if nobody is on LTIR) if he signs for $800,000 or so, we can make room for him by sending Kastelic or Chartier to the AHL. And keep going with 12 F and 7 D on the roster.

If Pinto signs for like 1 year $2 mil, we pretty much need to trade Kubalik. Unless we can sign Pinto to a Connor Brown deal: 1 year $800,000 with a bonus of $1.2 million if he plays 10 games. The $1.2 mil goes on next season's cap, just like it did for Brown.

Here's a loophole to exploit... after Jan 1, Pinto can sign a longer extension that starts 2024-25 after a 2023-24 contract is signed.

If the agent agrees with team on say 3 years $6 million, have Pinto sign a 1 year $800,000 contract for 2023-24. And shake hands on a 2 year $5.2 mil extension that will be signed the next day, before Pinto plays a game (to eliminate injury risk). The extension does not affect the 2023-24 cap at all. I doubt the NHL can call shenanigans, look at the Oilers Connor Brown deal that pushes $3 mil of the cap hit to next season. And the team and agent can say they signed the 1 year deal, and immediately began negotiating the 2 year extension, they are separate transactions.

Pinto can’t sign a bonus, Brown could as he only played about 6 games last year, so he qualified as an injured player.

 

[bert]

When (if) we have a full roster Dec 5, we'll be back to the tight cap situation of early in the season.

The solution is to carry 7 D instead of 13 F. If a D gets injured, we still can play 6 D instead of playing 5 for 1 game after which emergency recall is allowed. If a F gets injured, we go 11-7 which is much better than going 12-5.

Hamonic becomes the extra player / 7th D. JBD stays in the lineup as the 6D, as he is clearly better than Hamonic.

In the short term injury situation, Hamonic plays D in the 11-7 situation, plays like 7-8 sheltered minutes. For the next game, we call up a F under emergency recall, go back to 12-6, and Hamonic goes back to the press box.

When Pinto returns (if nobody is on LTIR) if he signs for $800,000 or so, we can make room for him by sending Kastelic or Chartier to the AHL. And keep going with 12 F and 7 D on the roster.

If Pinto signs for like 1 year $2 mil, we pretty much need to trade Kubalik. Unless we can sign Pinto to a Connor Brown deal: 1 year $800,000 with a bonus of $1.2 million if he plays 10 games. The $1.2 mil goes on next season's cap, just like it did for Brown.

Here's a loophole to exploit... after Jan 1, Pinto can sign a longer extension that starts 2024-25 after a 2023-24 contract is signed.

If the agent agrees with team on say 3 years $6 million, have Pinto sign a 1 year $800,000 contract for 2023-24. And shake hands on a 2 year $5.2 mil extension that will be signed the next day, before Pinto plays a game (to eliminate injury risk). The extension does not affect the 2023-24 cap at all. I doubt the NHL can call shenanigans, look at the Oilers Connor Brown deal that pushes $3 mil of the cap hit to next season. And the team and agent can say they signed the 1 year deal, and immediately began negotiating the 2 year extension, they are separate transactions.

The bolded really is the only option. They cant lose JBD for nothing now that he is finally progressing. Maybe Brannstrom can move to forward or something if they have to.

The loophole is an interesting concept that I hope works out.

 

[Micklebot]

The bolded really is the only option. They cant lose JBD for nothing now that he is finally progressing. Maybe Brannstrom can move to forward or something if they have to.

The loophole is an interesting concept that I hope works out.

We'd only lose JBD for nothing if we try to send him down after the dec 12th game, he's still exempt as a result of clearing earlier this year until then.

We could send him down earlier than that and bring up someone else if he'd be sitting in the pressbox, and preserve some more of that exemption if needed, he's currently got 8 games remaining before waivers would be required.

If it were me, I'd run with a 20 man roster for home games and off days which would us a bit of breathing room, but we don't have many of those in Dec, and the first half of Jan.

 

[swiftwin]

We'd only lose JBD for nothing if we try to send him down after the dec 12th game, he's still exempt as a result of clearing earlier this year until then.

We could send him down earlier than that and bring up someone else if he'd be sitting in the pressbox, and preserve some more of that exemption if needed, he's currently got 8 games remaining before waivers would be required.

If it were me, I'd run with a 20 man roster for home games and off days which would us a bit of breathing room, but we don't have many of those in Dec, and the first half of Jan.

Exactly. It's a no brainer to me. Send JBD down as soon as Chabot is back, which should be before Dec 12. No waivers required to send JBD down.

 

[bert]

We'd only lose JBD for nothing if we try to send him down after the dec 12th game, he's still exempt as a result of clearing earlier this year until then.

We could send him down earlier than that and bring up someone else if he'd be sitting in the pressbox, and preserve some more of that exemption if needed, he's currently got 8 games remaining before waivers would be required.

If it were me, I'd run with a 20 man roster for home games and off days which would us a bit of breathing room, but we don't have many of those in Dec, and the first half of Jan.

Theres no scenario where he should be sitting over Hamonic right now. He has surpased him in ice time. This team needs to play its best players. The players that earn the ice need to play it sets a bad example otherwise.

Whats his waiver status after they send him down on the 12th. Is he done for the season then? If so you're just delaying the inevitable.

 

[Tuna99]

Important on JBD is what Staois thinks of him and the new elevation from the new G.M. - some similarities between the two careers. Staois was drafted #27 overall, played RD, drafted in ‘91 and didn’t break into the league until ‘97. Played 170 AHL/IHL games. Depth defensive defenseman (Staois was a very good one Played 1001 NHL games)

JBD only has 1 penalty this season whereas Staois has lots of penalties all seasons.

Keep JBD just because he’s developed a game. He leads the NHL in avg. blocked shots per game - yes please

 

[bert]

Exactly. It's a no brainer to me. Send JBD down as soon as Chabot is back, which should be before Dec 12. No waivers required to send JBD down.

Send down a player that is playing better than another one... That's a tough message to send.

They are going to need 7 d men on that road trip anyways. Should they call someone else up?

Also the next time they call him up would he then not be waiver eligible?

 

[swiftwin]

Important on JBD is what Staois thinks of him and the new elevation from the new G.M. - some similarities between the two careers. Staois was drafted #27 overall, played RD, drafted in ‘91 and didn’t break into the league until ‘97. Played 170 AHL/IHL games. Depth defensive defenseman (Staois was a very good one Played 1001 NHL games)

JBD only has 1 penalty this season whereas Staois has lots of penalties all seasons.

Keep JBD just because he’s developed a game. He leads the NHL in avg. blocked shots per game - yes please

You're thinking too deeply into this. It's likely a committee decision between Staios, Bowness and DJ.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It’s also a cap decision, so no player is going to be devastated when they all know that a business decision needs to be made. The team isn’t going to be confused about it, and no one is going to think that it’s a grand slight.

Also, it’s been pretty obvious that the owner and POHO aren’t hanging their hats on this season, so don’t expect big trades or any short sighted decisions based on ‘must make the playoffs’.

All indicators point to patient moves with an eye for what’s best for the team long term. With that in mind most of these pie in the sky deals are just as ridiculous to consider as the ‘cap hell’ panic moves are.

Expect no major moves until a new GM has been chosen and has had their chance to evaluate the squad, choose a new coaching staff, and then get feed back from said new coaching staff along with viewing the new on ice product.

This is the kind of process that Andlauer and Staios have been telegraphing. Best to manage expectations accordingly in my opinion.

 

[Micklebot]

Theres no scenario where he should be sitting over Hamonic right now. He has surpased him in ice time. This team needs to play its best players. The players that earn the ice need to play it sets a bad example otherwise.

I agree that he should play over Hamonic, but I'm also a realist and fully expect DJ to play Hamonic over him, I've seen this movie enough times to know how it plays out even if it's not the ending I want to see

Whats his waiver status after they send him down on the 12th. Is he done for the season then? If so you're just delaying the inevitable.

After the game on the 12 he'd have to go through waivers again.

My expectation is that the team will eventually move one of Kubalik or Brannstrom as imo neither fit into long term plans, maybe not right away but by the deadline I think it will have happened. The option of sending JBD down just gives them breathing room until the find the right deal, while allowing him to get mins playing instead of watching from the pressbox (assuming DJ plays Hamonic over him as I expect).

By the deadline, I could see both JBD and Kleven as regulars, assuming Brannstrom gets moved, with Hamonic as our 7th.

 

[JD1]

I agree that he should play over Hamonic, but I'm also a realist and fully expect DJ to play Hamonic over him, I've seen this movie enough times to know how it plays out even if it's not the ending I want to see


After the game on the 12 he'd have to go through waivers again.

My expectation is that the team will eventually move one of Kubalik or Brannstrom as imo neither fit into long term plans, maybe not right away but by the deadline I think it will have happened. The option of sending JBD down just gives them breathing room until the find the right deal, while allowing him to get mins playing instead of watching from the pressbox (assuming DJ plays Hamonic over him as I expect).

By the deadline, I could see both JBD and Kleven as regulars, assuming Brannstrom gets moved, with Hamonic as our 7th.

Why does everyone think that Brannstrom doesn't fit? In a sense he's a perfect #5. He's not likely to ever command a salary in the low end of top 4 money but he's good insurance when you lose a top 4. He transitions the puck very well which is what you need in today's game.

People here pine for Kleven. Anyone notice he was dispatched really early in camp? With health he wouldn't have seen a shift in the NHL so far this year. And as soon as we got healthier, he went down again. We could have sent JBD down without waivers.

I think Brannstrom is just fine as a #5 making #5 money.

I think Kubalik will be moved quite easily when the time comes. We might not get a lot, but I don't think it will be difficult to shed his contract

 

[Xspyrit]

Brannstrom may not fit in long term plans but short and medium term plans he does. We'll see next training camp if Kleven is better than him. Until then, no reason to trade Brannstrom, all he can do is raise his value

Kubalik though, we can't even bring him back. Unless you want to give away Joseph or not re-sign Tarasenko or a good replacement... It's been the NO BRAINER since July 26th even if some called me out (as usual) at first.

Exactly. It's a no brainer to me. Send JBD down as soon as Chabot is back, which should be before Dec 12. No waivers required to send JBD down.

Why send JBD down? We only have 6 D-men when everyone is healthy. It's impossible to go through a season with only 6 D-men, and particularly the December-January stretch who will be very difficult for us

Many combinations possible but I think we should go like this (Jake is "the most likely to succeed") :

Chychrun - Sanderson
Chabot - Zub
Brannstrom - JBD
Hamonic

Send Jarventie and MacEwen down as soon as Greig and Kastelic are back

Jarventie is waivers exempt and needs more development, he's even exempt next season.

You're thinking too deeply into this. It's likely a committee decision between Staios, Bowness and DJ.

The boss is clearly Staios... I mean, others can give him suggestions but hierarchy still exists in society

 

[bert]

I agree that he should play over Hamonic, but I'm also a realist and fully expect DJ to play Hamonic over him, I've seen this movie enough times to know how it plays out even if it's not the ending I want to see


After the game on the 12 he'd have to go through waivers again.

My expectation is that the team will eventually move one of Kubalik or Brannstrom as imo neither fit into long term plans, maybe not right away but by the deadline I think it will have happened. The option of sending JBD down just gives them breathing room until the find the right deal, while allowing him to get mins playing instead of watching from the pressbox (assuming DJ plays Hamonic over him as I expect).

By the deadline, I could see both JBD and Kleven as regulars, assuming Brannstrom gets moved, with Hamonic as our 7th.

Dec 12th is the teams hardest stretch of the season and most crucial point in it. Its the west coast road trip where there is absolutely 0 chance only 6 d men play. They play 7 in 11. If the best players aren't going to play then this won't be a playoff team. For everyone that has questioned why they need to make a decision now it's exactly situations like this that I was talking about. You can't run a bare bones roster and if you want a full buy in from your team you have to reward players for playing well. Guys will do the little things if it means more ice time and fair ice time.

 

[Micklebot]

Dec 12th is the teams hardest stretch of the season and most crucial point in it. Its the west coast road trip where there is absolutely 0 chance only 6 d men play. They play 7 in 11. If the best players aren't going to play then this won't be a playoff team. For everyone that has questioned why they need to make a decision now it's exactly situations like this that I was talking about. You can't run a bare bones roster and if you want a full buy in from your team you have to reward players for playing well. Guys will do the little things if it means more ice time and fair ice time.

Well my assumption is that DJ has a different opinion on who the best players are. Seems to be the norm, fans not agreeing with who the team plays.

Why does everyone think that Brannstrom doesn't fit? In a sense he's a perfect #5. He's not likely to ever command a salary in the low end of top 4 money but he's good insurance when you lose a top 4. He transitions the puck very well which is what you need in today's game.

People here pine for Kleven. Anyone notice he was dispatched really early in camp? With health he wouldn't have seen a shift in the NHL so far this year. And as soon as we got healthier, he went down again. We could have sent JBD down without waivers.

I think Brannstrom is just fine as a #5 making #5 money.

I think Kubalik will be moved quite easily when the time comes. We might not get a lot, but I don't think it will be difficult to shed his contract

I think Brannstrom is a very solid option on the bottom pair, but he adds a dynamic that we already have in abundance imo. Idk, I look at his usage by DJ, and the conclusion I come to is he'd rather have a guy like Kleven (assuming he pans out).

I've said it before, Kubalik is my first choice to move if someone has to go, but Brannstrom isn't that far behind for me,

 

[bert]

Well my assumption is that DJ has a different opinion on who the best players are. Seems to be the norm, fans not agreeing with who the team plays.

Well JBD has been playing 6 minutes more a night for the last 5 games or so. I am basing this on the tangible evidence of who gets substantially more ice time. Seems like DJ's actions dont agree that Hamonic is the better player.

 

[Micklebot]

Well JBD has been playing 6 minutes more a night for the last 5 games or so. I am basing this on the tangible evidence of who gets substantially more ice time. Seems like DJ's actions dont agree that Hamonic is the better player.

I think context is important, DJ likes keeping his pairings as much as possible, Zub is Sanderson's partner, Harmonic is Brannstroms. JBD is a callup, and has slotted into Chabots spot, so while he's there he'll get lots of 5v5 time. Does DJ move JBD into Hamonics spot when Chabot returns, idk, but I do know that Hamonic is the first guy over the boards every time we go on the PK, while JBD is option 5 among D. Chabot isn't a pk guy either, and neither is Chychrun, so that leaves us one trusted guy short. My experience tells me PK matters to coaches, what does yours tell you?

 

[bert]

I think context is important, DJ likes keeping his pairings as much as possible, Zub is Sanderson's partner, Harmonic is Brannstroms. JBD is a callup, and has slotted into Chabots spot, so while he's there he'll get lots of 5v5 time. Does DJ move JBD into Hamonics spot when Chabot returns, idk, but I do know that Hamonic is the first guy over the boards every time we go on the PK, while JBD is option 5 among D. Chabot isn't a pk guy either, and neither is Chychrun, so that leaves us one trusted guy short. My experience tells me PK matters to coaches, what does yours tell you?

If he is playing Chychurn more and he thinks Hamonic is better why wouldnt he just play Hamonic with him. The mental gymnastics you are trying to perform here is impressive.

 

[jbeck5]

Stu definitely does NOT get in there every time. He is a guy that draws the guys who get in there every time because he is aggressive, but not tough.

His roll doesn’t need to be glorified, you’re right, but he is absolutely one of two guys who are always first into the scrums to protect/support their teammates. The other is Brady. Joseph and Zub are secondary physical players in that way, and oddly Tank likes to mix it up.

Big guys that aren’t keen to get involved but will if needed are guys like Chychrun, and Batherson.

It’s plain to see when you watch games. The guys who are in it right away every time are very valuable to their teammates.

Makes me realize how soft our team is.

How is 6'3 batherson who works out not pushing people around when people take shots after the whistle?

How is jacked chychrun not stiff arming anyone who says anything? His arms are twice the size of 90% of players out there. Why doesn't he man handle them with his strength?

I don't understand it. As someone who likes working out and never look for fights in hockey, I never missed an opportunity to defend my teammates when an opponent was starting shit. This doesn't mean fight. Just go to the guy and grab him by the jersey behind the neck and yank him down to the ice. Problem neutralized.

If I remember correctly, the first game we had varada, some guy was taking advantage of Hossa in a scrum and he did just that and got a standing ovation from Ottawa. I think it was against dallas. I was at the game.

I don't understand how these guys are ultra competitive athletes who hit the gym all the time, and don't get the slightest bit of adrenaline when someone grabs their teammates, even if it's just bearhugging the guy down to the ice.

Don't they want to exert their strength over their opponents being competitive and muscular guys?

I'm not saying taking a penalty by popping the guy...just defending your guy with some "wrestling".

I just don't get it. Show some fight when the other team shoves our guys. Tell them you'll f*** them up and go grab them by the jersey by the throat and just show them you're mean and not to be messed with.

 

[Micklebot]

If he is playing Chychurn more and he thinks Hamonic is better why wouldnt he just play Hamonic with him. The mental gymnastics you are trying to perform here is impressive.

Ok, so who kills penalties?

No mental gymnastics here Bert, just looking at what the coach does and what has happened in the past.

In my experience, the coach values having his top PK guys in the lineup. He still very clearly sees Hamonic as the preferred option on the PK, while he prefers JBD as Chychruns partner 5v5.

When Chabot returns, if the go back to Chychrun with Chabot, does he take out one of his top PK guys so that he can get bottom pair mins out of JBD?

 

[bert]

Ok, so who kills penalties?

No mental gymnastics here Bert, just looking at what the coach does and what has happened in the past.

In my experience, the coach values having his top PK guys in the lineup. He still very clearly sees Hamonic as the preferred option on the PK, while he prefers JBD as Chychruns partner 5v5.

When Chabot returns, if the go back to Chychrun with Chabot, does he take out one of his top PK guys so that he can get bottom pair mins out of JBD?

JBD kills... So does Chychrun. JBD is blocking more shots per 60 than any player in the league....

 

[Micklebot]

JBD kills... So does Chychrun. JBD is blocking more shots per 60 than any player in the league....

The only time Chychrun killed penalties this year was when both Brannstrom and Zub were out of the lineup, the only regular with less total time on the PK is Chabot and he's played less than half as many games, are you sure we're watching the same team?

 

[jbeck5]

Hamonic is the guy that puts himself in there to get Stu out of that situation, it's fine, you don't like Hamonic it seems, but he's absolutely the type of guy that stands up for his teammates, he's always been that. He's not looking for fights, but will when needed, the same way Mike Fisher would. Once maybe twice a season.

Nobody is saying he's an enforcer, or glorifying his role, but acknowledging the things he does. On the flip side, you're doing a fine job with the false equivalencies, saying Stützle or Norris stands up for his teammates the same way Hamonic does.

I think fisher fought quite a bit more.

Edit: looking back, you're right. He had 39 career fights over 19 seasons. Just over 2 per year.

Harmonic has 55 career fights in 15 years. 3-4 per year.

Its funny how I remember fisher as a much more physical player than harmonic.

Maybe its because he's only fought once in the 3 years he's been in Ottawa.

He has years of 8 and 7 and 7 fights. Makes me wonder why he's so hesitant to step up with such a young team and not many fighters and other teams constantly going after guys like timmie or Sanderson after the whistles.

 

[Micklebot]

I think fisher fought quite a bit more.

Edit: looking back, you're right. He had 39 career fights over 19 seasons. Just over 2 per year.

Harmonic has 55 career fights in 15 years. 3-4 per year.

Its funny how I remember fisher as a much more physical player than harmonic.

Maybe its because he's only fought once in the 3 years he's been in Ottawa.

He has years of 8 and 7 and 7 fights. Makes me wonder why he's so hesitant to step up with such a young team and not many fighters and other teams constantly going after guys like timmie or Sanderson after the whistles.

Well we had Fish in his prime and Hamonic during his decline, I'm sure if we had prime hammer you'd see him as more physical.