Proposal: Jack Eichel to Anaheim 4 Fair Value

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

John Hoven said in NHLRadio Mayors Minutes today Murray offered Gibson in a hockey trade “like the Mike Richards trade” Sabres said no.

Ducks remain interested, still not offering Zegras, waiting for the price to go down.

NHL RADIO REPLAY: Mayor’s Minutes – Hoven on Kings, Ducks, and Jack Eichel Update

Thank god they declined a trade around Gibson. Guy has been cheeks the last few seasons.

 

[YP44]

The Ducks made a lot of sense pre-draft IMO, even without Zegras and Drysdale.

2021 1st, Perreault, Dostal, Comtois is a hell of a package to put together if you believe Buffalo's asking price of 4 really good pieces. Doubt the Ducks would offer all that though.

 

[tomd]

It makes total sense that the Ducks wanted a pure hockey trade. Anyone who knows how GMBM operates would have understood that.

Buffalo faces a tough decision once Eichel is healthy...trade him to a SC contender at the TDL for the best offer they can get or wait until the 22 draft when they are bumping up against his bonus and NMC clause. Risk either way.

 

[lwvs84]

Buffalo's best bet might be to make a trade after the season but before the NTC kicks in. Prove he's healthy and know where the pick they are getting is (at least pre-lottery). Chances are contenders won't be able to deal for him, non playoff teams can make deals after the season ends during playoffs, right?

 

[McDonald19]

Zegras, Drysdale, Vilardi, Byfield, Stutzle, Lafreniere, Byram. And obviously 1st overall in 2022 (assuming it ends up being Wright) and 1 & 2 in 2023 (Bedard & Michkov).

Vilardi is probably the only one on the list that is available. The Kings would be all over that if he is the main piece for Eichel.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Vilardi is probably the only one on the list that is available. The Kings would be all over that if he is the main piece for Eichel.

I’m too lazy to search now, but there was an agreement with some Kings fans I had with Vilardi going back to the Sabres. It was comparable to the one I made with Ducks fans. Obviously this was pre-draft and free agency.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I’m too lazy to search now, but there was an agreement with some Kings fans I had with Vilardi going back to the Sabres. It was comparable to the one I made with Ducks fans. Obviously this was pre-draft and free agency.

Vilardi is decent but I don’t think he’s anywhere near the players he was listed with.


I’m a pretty big fan of vilardi and not sure I’d take him over mctavish

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Vilardi is decent but I don’t think he’s anywhere near the players he was listed with.


I’m a pretty big fan of vilardi and not sure I’d take him over mctavish

I’m higher on him than I am Turcotte. I wanted the Sabres to draft him during his draft year. I do know there was the 1st and Anderson-Dolan included and I forget the rest

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Thank god they declined a trade around Gibson. Guy has been cheeks the last few seasons.

I think you have an odd definition of "few". It's been the past two seasons, which also happen to coincide with the team in front of him completely derailing into a bottom feeder.

There has been a clear trend the past two years for those who have been watching more than the end of year stat line. He starts the season out carrying the team on his back and then seemingly goes into self preservation mode when it becomes clear that the season is lost. At this point I don't doubt at all that he's still capable of playing at an elite level, Price has had some similar down years in his career too.

From a Buffalo perspective I can still agree that the premise isn't favourable. They shouldn't be taking a goalie as their main piece for Eichel.

 

[North Cole]

To me, a blue chip prospect is someone expected to play multiple all-star games. Like at least 3+.

To me a blue chip is just a guy that is expected to carve out a long stable career. 3+ ASG is a superstar, do you know how hard it is to make an ASG, especially at Centre?

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Vilardi is decent but I don’t think he’s anywhere near the players he was listed with.


I’m a pretty big fan of vilardi and not sure I’d take him over mctavish

Vilardi has some injury history of his own so there's some shared risk to that premise at least.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

To me a blue chip is just a guy that is expected to carve out a long stable career. 3+ ASG is a superstar, do you know how hard it is to make an ASG, especially at Centre?

To me those guys are top prospects. Blue chips are the expected superstars. But I mean, everybody’s definition is different.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

I think you have an odd definition of "few". It's been the past two seasons, which also happen to coincide with the team in front of him completely derailing into a bottom feeder.

There has been a clear trend the past two years for those who have been watching more than the end of year stat line. He starts the season out carrying the team on his back and then seemingly goes into self preservation mode when it becomes clear that the season is lost. At this point I don't doubt at all that he's still capable of playing at an elite level, Price has had some similar down years in his career too.

From a Buffalo perspective I can still agree that the premise isn't favourable. They shouldn't be taking a goalie as their main piece for Eichel.

I know that's the excuse that Ducks fans give, but his analytics are horrible too. He's been bad and the team has been bad too.

Goalies are voodoo. They can drop off pretty quickly. Look at Holtby & Bob. Goalies that went from top 5 to below average in a blink of an eye. Maybe he bounces back, but if he doesn't you're stuck with a below average goalie at a high cap hit for another 6 years. Someone like that would be a horrible return for Buffalo.

 

[BlueSeal]

.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I know that's the excuse that Ducks fans give, but his analytics are horrible too. He's been bad and the team has been bad too.

Goalies are voodoo. They can drop off pretty quickly. Look at Holtby & Bob. Goalies that went from top 5 to below average in a blink of an eye. Maybe he bounces back, but if he doesn't you're stuck with a below average goalie at a high cap hit for another 6 years. Someone like that would be a horrible return for Buffalo.

Teams wouldn't still be employing pro scouts if advanced stats were yielding finite conclusions. Gibson having two bad seasons (not a few as you stated) behind a dumpster fire team, doesn't mean his talent has suddenly evaporated. Even the most elite goalies have their down years.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Teams wouldn't still be employing pro scouts if advanced stats were yielding finite conclusions. Gibson having two bad seasons (not a few as you stated) behind a dumpster fire team, doesn't mean his talent has suddenly evaporated. Even the most elite goalies have their down years.

You don't think pro scouts are using analytics? Advanced stats are an excellent way to evaluate goalies that are on bad teams. Good goalie play will show up analytically even if the team is bad. That's not the case with Gibson. He's been bad these last 2 years. Whether he's on the decline or just having a stretch of horrible goalie play is up in the air.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Teams wouldn't still be employing pro scouts if advanced stats were yielding finite conclusions. Gibson having two bad seasons (not a few as you stated) behind a dumpster fire team, doesn't mean his talent has suddenly evaporated. Even the most elite goalies have their down years.

His advanced stats were vezina worthy on a bad team a few years ago so that argument doesn't hold up well.

 

[Trojans86]

To me a blue chip is just a guy that is expected to carve out a long stable career. 3+ ASG is a superstar, do you know how hard it is to make an ASG, especially at Centre?

I agree. A top line talent with a long career is absolutely a blue chip in my book.

 

[Trojans86]

I know that's the excuse that Ducks fans give, but his analytics are horrible too. He's been bad and the team has been bad too.

Goalies are voodoo. They can drop off pretty quickly. Look at Holtby & Bob. Goalies that went from top 5 to below average in a blink of an eye. Maybe he bounces back, but if he doesn't you're stuck with a below average goalie at a high cap hit for another 6 years. Someone like that would be a horrible return for Buffalo.

If you watched the ducks you would understand. Not saying he has been the best goalie in the league but analytics are not great at truly measuring shot quality and you have to factor in how he has been frustrated.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

His advanced stats were vezina worthy on a bad team a few years ago so that argument doesn't hold up well.

Can you be more specific when you say "a few years" because the last guy who said "a few" really meant "two years"?

"A few years ago" the Ducks were still a perennial playoff team. It's only been the past two seasons where Gibson failed to carry them on his shoulders. As I pointed out, he started both seasons standing on his head, then faded as the season went to waste. Not sure you're argument holds any weight because anyone following the Ducks can tell that they have become increasingly bad for 2+ seasons and were never this terrible previously in Gibson's tenure. From 2017-18 on they have faded from a playoff team, to bottom ten, bottom five and now bottom two this past season.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

If you watched the ducks you would understand. Not saying he has been the best goalie in the league but analytics are not great at truly measuring shot quality and you have to factor in how he has been frustrated.

It seems people only say this when analytics make the player look poorly. The eye test and analytics show he's been playing poorly. The team in front of him is bad and he certainly hasn't been helping.

If his frustration is impacting his play that much, that's not a goalie we should stay far away from.

 

[Canucks LB]

Very fair package

 

[WhatTheDuck]

It seems people only say this when analytics make the player look poorly. The eye test and analytics show he's been playing poorly. The team in front of him is bad and he certainly hasn't been helping.

If his frustration is impacting his play that much, that's not a goalie we should stay far away from.

"The eye test" - be honest, how many of his games are you claiming to have watched?

As already pointed out, the eye test shows the talent hasn't diminished. He plays other worldly until the season is lost and then goes into self preservation mode. He has looked frustrated and checked out at times but again, even the most elite goalies don't spend 20 years in this league at their peak the entire time.

It really seems like you're just stat scouting here.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

"The eye test" - be honest, how many of his games are you claiming to have watched?

As already pointed out, the eye test shows the talent hasn't diminished. He plays other worldly until the season is lost and then goes into self preservation mode. He has looked frustrated and checked out at times but again, even the most elite goalies don't spend 20 years in this league at their peak the entire time.

It really seems like you're just stat scouting here.

I have probably watched at least 20 games of Gibson last year. Was on my fantasy team unfortunately.

The eye test shows someone that is far from the elite play we're used to. He's letting in easy shots that he would've been saving 4 years ago. That level of consistency he had in the past isn't there. People around here still tout him as an elite goalie that can carry the team, but that's not the case anymore. A goalie that checks out because your team is bad is a huge red flag too.

Everything shows Gibson has been bad these last 2 years. Seems like you just don't want to accept that. I know it sucks to see star players start to decline in play.

 

[Scintillating10]

F, Mason McTavish
F, Richard Rakell
D, Jackson Lacombe/Henry Thru
F, Brayden Tracey/Sam Colangelo
G, Lukas Dostal
2022 1st top 3 protected



F, Jack Eichel

Eichel heavily injury prone. No way i would offer that much. Especially a high pick in this draft