Player Discussion Jack Campbell

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
50,563
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Islands in the stream.
I hear you.
Some players though just do not have the tools to deal with all the pressures that come with being an NHL starter.
Mental toughness is a hallmark quality for an NHL starting goalie.
I have seen little to no evidence that mental toughness is a quality that Campbell possesses.
Being overly hard on yourself is a sign that Campbell isnt mentally strong enough. Being hard on yourself does nothing but add to the strain and pressure. It undermines success.
Mentally tough people are resilient and know to let things go.
They are not their own worst enemy like Campbell is. I found some of his post game interviews (where he beat himself up) completely cringe worthy.

I think that we need to lower our expectations of this player.
If he can become a solid tandem goalie then (despite the overpay) I would be fine with that.
I think this is a good post but theres always been goalies from Glenn Hall to Carey Price that seem to suffer immensely from the stress of the position but still perform like gold when they are between the pipes. Hall used to throw up before games and be sick all day on occasion. Maybe it would have been less tenable for Hall in 82 game seasons to be that way.

But the flip side of your comment is that how many players get to this level without considerable amounts of mental toughness. Its not that they don't possess it, maybe not enough. The stress of pro sports is enormous. When you take the few spots in sports where that pressure gets focus of a giant magnifying glass like Goalie in hockey or pitcher in baseball it occasionally fries anybody up. Its why these positions seem to have players suffering from the most mental effects, superstitions, weird oddities. The goalies are truly the space cadets in hockey because the position is unlike anything else. Doesn't help that their job is stopping rubber pucks that often don't behave according to normal physics and wobble, drop, and don't always move in straight lines and get deflected. Close to 100MPH speeding small objects that move unpredictably. Its your job to stop those. It would make most people lose it at the pro level.
 
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FlameChampion

Registered User
Jul 13, 2011
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I hear you.
Some players though just do not have the tools to deal with all the pressures that come with being an NHL starter.
Mental toughness is a hallmark quality for an NHL starting goalie.
I have seen little to no evidence that mental toughness is a quality that Campbell possesses.
Being overly hard on yourself is a sign that Campbell isnt mentally strong enough. Being hard on yourself does nothing but add to the strain and pressure. It undermines success.
Mentally tough people are resilient and know to let things go.
They are not their own worst enemy like Campbell is. I found some of his post game interviews (where he beat himself up) completely cringe worthy.

I think that we need to lower our expectations of this player.
If he can become a solid tandem goalie then (despite the overpay) I would be fine with that.

The lack of mental toughness is what surprises me.

I knew he was a risk when we signed him. I heard too many things about him being off/on, which after having Mike Smith, scared me a bit (I know they are not similar goalies at all). But they both seemed to go through hot/cold stretches.

But I felt like playing in Toronto should helped him transition better here. But yeah I seen nothing during the year that showed me hes mentally strong enough. Guess we will see what we get next year.
 

FlameChampion

Registered User
Jul 13, 2011
14,907
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1)Dustin Schwartz

2)Schemes the team is using that Marchessault outlined that Vegas were able to exploit. He was stating that in reference to Skinner but not much had changed. The Oilers had D leaving front of net coverage all season. Indeed the D that had best stints here had it early, and before they had adopted to the schemes. Think of early Desharnaia here or Ekholm when they were just being simple stay at home D.

3)Being on a new club is tougher. Being the tapped guy on a team expecting to contend is a lot of mental stress for such a rare spot in sports. Goalies have the same voodoo as pitchers due to the enormous pressure and eyes focusing on them. It takes a certain individual.

4) Coming here to these schemes isn't to Campbells advantage. Like most goalies he would benefit from better net front coverage. He plays kind of small for his size and he doesn't box out crease himself like an Adin Hill does.

5)Campbell is a primary reaction form goalie in a Block form expectation environment. Schwartz is a clear block form advocate. He always has been. He's telling Campbell to do different things than what got Campbell here. Goalies should have their own goalie coach that works best for them.

6)Goaltending and the up and downs is hard enough. you have to have the trust of coaching staff and you cannot have he feeling that you will just be benched for long periods of time if you do struggle. That compounds the risk and vagaries of the position and just results in more tunneling. The key to help a struggling goalie is to give him more, not less chances.

I agree with a lot of your points but I'm not sure how much we can really blame Schwartz (I feel sick defending Schwartz for the record lol). I get that hes the whipping boy, and honestly I dont think he should be employed at this point due to his past history before we even acquired Campbell. But I dont think Schwartz even had enough time to derail Campbells season. Campbell was pretty much poor from game 1.

The team was dreadful defensively to start the year last year. Lots of egregious defensive mistakes. For a new goalie coming into the a new situations, the team absolutely left hung him out to dry. Eventually the team started playing better but Campbell really could never elevate his game. Hopefully the team is ready to start playing on game 1 this year instead of Jan. 1 like last year.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

Sometimes miracles
Jan 12, 2006
79,330
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Alberta
They should try to trade him with a big retention soon or buy him out. Jack Campbell seems like a solid dude, but he's not likely to provide anything special for the cost. I think one year of Martin Jones or a couple years of Logan Thompson probably gives the Oilers similar (if not better) production at a fraction of the cost.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
17,180
19,008
Vancouver
Campbell's not going anywhere. That's a hard reality people need to accept.

It is deeply troubling when your big money/term free agent signing needs to be shutdown essentially immediately in his acquisition for a complete rebuild of his technical and mental game along with equipment. Campbell is emerging as a goalie that won't steal hockey games but the team can't afford to cost them games with critical time weak and leaky goals. It's been a pattern and this team sags a lot when it happens.

Now the big picture. We won't have a true read on Campbell until a very limited uni-dimensional platoon defense is significantly upgraded with top two pairing defenders, faster processing, smart and efficient puck moving type and optimally a quality veteran stabilizing goal suppression type. Current defense is erratic, prone to both unforced own errors and under pressure by aggressive, hard forecheck. The system play does not align with the platoon defense who can't consistently zone exit with stretch bombs that get picked off to create own zone or neutral zone rush opportunities against. Minus a #7 career minor league platoon guy, this d-corp is soft in net coverage, often chase opposing forwards outside of high scoring ice, and not strong enough in cycle breaking and physical defending areas of the ice. They're taught (?) to move out of shooting lanes to let their goalie see the puck and stop the puck instead of blocking shots from range.

The own zone support from forwards waves erratically as the hard effort to backtrack is not applied as it is to chasing scoring opportunities in the fun zone. Both forward and d like to chase opportunities to add more scoring in key situations when shut down mentality and that disciple is what elite teams have learned wins games in the second season.

Until all of these personnel, systems, and systemic issues are worked out, the goaltending position solely can't fully and completely be held to account on a team that still has distance to walk amidst the truly elite teams in this league.
Cue Talking Heads 'Same As It Ever Was'.

Since this February post, the Oil upgraded personnel with Ekholm trade which was a massive difference maker. Still need to complete the set by adding the second veteran top 4 RD.

Oilers systems play needs to change this training camp. The man-to-man d does not work with their tendency to chase opposition beyond prime scoring areas and the high speed fast transition attack style that fits this forward group leaves too much confusion with own zone coverage leaving vulnerability gaps in high scoring areas and net front.

Goaltending tandem needs to stabilize... primarily Campbell while hoping there is no sophomore regression in Skinner who overachieved as a rookie.

Vegas proved you can win with average goaltending. But you have to be diligent, consistent, highly structured, and disciplined in own zone defending system with high work rate to suppress goals as creating them in the fun zone 200 feet away.

Improving goal suppression and PK are the final mile for this team. Gonna require new simplified own zone defending systems and one more personnel upgrade. It's on the coaching to imprint this priority from day 1 of camp and players to fully embrace it to reach final, elite status of Cup challengers.
 

duul

Registered User
Jun 21, 2010
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5,083
How did they see this guy falter in Toronto, endless documentation about his mental health struggles and stress getting the best of him and decide a 5x5 would suffice? What a disaster. Him being a 'nice' guy means f*** all. Seeing him walking his cat should have been a red flag.
 
Apr 12, 2010
76,117
35,270
Calgary
How did they see this guy falter in Toronto, endless documentation about his mental health struggles and stress getting the best of him and decide a 5x5 would suffice? What a disaster. Him being a 'nice' guy means f*** all. Seeing him walking his cat should have been a red flag.
These are the same guys who thought giving Nurse his current contract was a good idea, so...
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
34,869
15,495
I think this is a good post but theres always been goalies from Glenn Hall to Carey Price that seem to suffer immensely from the stress of the position but still perform like gold when they are between the pipes. Hall used to throw up before games and be sick all day on occasion. Maybe it would have been less tenable for Hall in 82 game seasons to be that way.

But the flip side of your comment is that how many players get to this level without considerable amounts of mental toughness. Its not that they don't possess it, maybe not enough. The stress of pro sports is enormous. When you take the few spots in sports where that pressure gets focus of a giant magnifying glass like Goalie in hockey or pitcher in baseball it occasionally fries anybody up. Its why these positions seem to have players suffering from the most mental effects, superstitions, weird oddities. The goalies are truly the space cadets in hockey because the position is unlike anything else. Doesn't help that their job is stopping rubber pucks that often don't behave according to normal physics and wobble, drop, and don't always move in straight lines and get deflected. Close to 100MPH speeding small objects that move unpredictably. Its your job to stop those. It would make most people lose it at the pro level.
Absolutely.
I think though that how an athlete processes adversity is a useful marker to see how mentally resilient they are. That IMO is where Campbell primarily fails...between the ears.
His very unorthodox style aside....
He seems to have the requisite courage needed to stand in front of a vulcanized rubber disk traveling at 100mph. No issue there but as we know courage is only part of the deal.

Fuhr was a perfect example of a goalie that could let bad goals (and bad games) go. These things simply didnt linger at all. He would acknowledge that he wasnt good enough and that was it.
He was on to the next challenge. he and other successful goalies didnt stay in the negativity.
He and others knew that bad shit was going to happen...acknowledge it and move on quickly.
Do not stay in that place mentally and that starts with the self talk.
To maintain a high level of play for long stretches of time it is an absolute requirement to be able to move on very quickly from the bad shit.

That IMO is a large part of Campbells issue. He gets consumed by the bad shit.
I have never seen a goalie that beats himself up to the level that Campbell does and stays in that place. The pressure and expectations of being an NHL starter is difficult enough without adding to the weight of that by embracing such a negative disposition.

Now all that being said there is little to no historical evidence that Campbell can be a legit starter BUT if he can work with someone to clean up the lack of self discipline around how he processes the bad shit then I see no reason why he cant be a solid tandem goalie.

The bottom line is that Campbell is 31 years old and after multiple years in the NHL this is STILL an issue....that is a red flag and for some its enough to cut bait.
I understand that completely. Thats primarily why I do not understand signing this player for a $5M long term contract.
A mistake of that magnitude is not something good management does IMO.
 
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guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
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The lack of mental toughness is what surprises me.

I knew he was a risk when we signed him. I heard too many things about him being off/on, which after having Mike Smith, scared me a bit (I know they are not similar goalies at all). But they both seemed to go through hot/cold stretches.

But I felt like playing in Toronto should helped him transition better here. But yeah I seen nothing during the year that showed me hes mentally strong enough. Guess we will see what we get next year.
I couldnt agree more.
I was so surprised to see a 30+ year old NHL goalie talk about his failures (bad goals...bad games) in the manner that Campbell did. It was so hard to listen to. Sullen voice...slouched body language.
It reminded me of Eeyore.
I cant imagine the effect that had on his teammates. Hard to have any confidence that he can turn things around after listening to that after a bad game.

I can say with confidence that if he doesnt completely turn that around his NHL career will be short lived.
 
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Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
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I don't know if I've ever seen a goalie play as well as he did tonight and still give up 6 goals thanks to botched defense and high skilled plays by the opposition.
 
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Patch101

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
3,249
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Kamloops
Time for him to be on waivers, and time to fire the goalie coach already.

The "its a new season" experiment has ended. Gatta try the AHL guys who are on fire rn. Skinner gets a pass being on his cursed sophomore season, and getting payed like a backup.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
74,994
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This experiment is over, we've seen all we needed to see. Both him and Skinner frankly. One of the two needs to go now, maybe the other in the summer.

It's not all their fault, but they have to make a big save here or there, if they can't, they are just poisoning this team.
 

ConnorNova0929

Registered User
Feb 25, 2023
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Campbell seems like a nice guy but he needs to go to the minors to see if he can find a consistent game again. (then he can get bought out in the off-season)
 
Apr 12, 2010
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Calgary
Garbage 1st GA. Mentally fragile goalie paired with an absolute brain dead defensive core. Not sold on Skinner either. Send Campbell down and acquire another goalie.
Your struggling team just took the lead and you go all Brian Elliott. Just a disgrace.

I notice his fanboys are awfully quiet about his performance.
 

Ritchie Valens

Registered User
Sep 24, 2007
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I really hoped he'd be a late bloomer like Timmy T in Boston. But he's been about as good as LaBarbera.
 

Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
88,085
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Your struggling team just took the lead and you go all Brian Elliott. Just a disgrace.

I notice his fanboys are awfully quiet about his performance.
The 1st goal was garbage, but we gave up 5. The other 4 goals looked to be piss poor defensive coverage by my eye. Unless your goalie is elite, those mistakes are going to bite you in the ass.
 

mkatcherin00

Registered User
Apr 2, 2023
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Your struggling team just took the lead and you go all Brian Elliott. Just a disgrace.

I notice his fanboys are awfully quiet about his performance.
Why does anybody get so attached to either of them?

They both are trash

Skinner is just a tad less trashy lol

Fuk the both of them
 
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guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
34,869
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The 1st goal was garbage, but we gave up 5. The other 4 goals looked to be piss poor defensive coverage by my eye. Unless your goalie is elite, those mistakes are going to bite you in the ass.
I agree completly.
Although considering how much this team is struggling Campbell just cant give up that first goal.
Especially after the Oilers just started to generate some momentum.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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The 1st goal was garbage, but we gave up 5. The other 4 goals looked to be piss poor defensive coverage by my eye. Unless your goalie is elite, those mistakes are going to bite you in the ass.

The problem this team just can't mentally handle a bad goal at this point.

Team just has no confidence because the goals can't stop anything.
 
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TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
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Knew this dude sucked balls watching his HIGHLIGHTS. How does one look like shit when someone curates video footage of the best you have to offer?

And this the guy the Oilers “scouted” and signed for 5 years at 5M with ZERO negotiations (competent job Kenny you lazy prick). And when I say “scouted” I mean the Oilers looked at one good 6 month stretch he had as a Leaf then ignored all the other red flags that his career was filled with.
 

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