Post-Game Talk: Jack Campbell is a Toronto Maple Leaf. Leafs win.

[zeke]

LOL, no it didn't. And Andersen was really good for most of his first 3 years here so this "years of bad games" is a huge overstatement and only serves as further evidence of how bitter you are.

He has been a subpar goalie for well over 100 starts now.

The more you dishonestly try to paint others as biased just for stating simple facts, the more you show everyone that you're the one whose bias is preventing you from honest evaluation.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Imagine still defending Andersen. Jesus man

 

[Leafsfan74]

Another consideration in all of this is the teams faith in their goalie. It seems clear to me this team trusts Campbell more, and why shouldn't they? It's never personal when a team believes they can win it all.

It's all about playoff success this year. Leafs didn't pick up hungry vets in order to play politics. When a team believes in their goalie, it's infectious.

I gave Freddie plenty of credit in the past as he earned it. Our D was non existent, front to back. Last year to some extent and this year without question, the Leafs D and commitment from forwards is far better. Freddie hasn't kept pace.

He will play a role in this teams success, it should be as backup. He must get 100% healthy also. That is vital.

 

[ToneDog]

He has been a subpar goalie for well over 100 starts now.

The more you dishonestly try to paint others as biased just for stating simple facts, the more you show everyone that you're the one whose bias is preventing you from honest evaluation.

Jack coming off IR twice posts two shutouts. In between Andy could barely win a game. Tells me Andy is the problem. Our only hope is that he can regain his mojo after rehabing his injury or Jack stays healthy. Not sure Jack can be a true #1 but he has clearly shown his much better than a backup. Nice acquisition by the Dubes; might save his ass in the playoffs if playoff Andy shows up.

 

[zeke]

It's the only way to convince yourself that Dubas built a fundamentally flawed rather than admitting that it's one replaceable piece holding us back. Coincidentally, that piece is Lou's biggest move and one of only two still left on the roster.

And here's the truth finally.

The people fighting tooth and nail to defend Andersen's obviously terrible play (supported by eye test and all the numbers) clearly are doing it because they are still trying to win old internet arguments about Dubas vs. Lou, not because they're interested in honest evaluations.

 

[zeke]

Since Freddy came here, these boards have been split... Every. Single. Year.

One group said he was the best in the nhl, other group said he just padded stats with soft saves due to shitty defense. Depending on the current win/loss situation is where the majority of peoples opinions were.

False.

Even I, the apparent lead freddy-hater from the start, said that Freddy's first couple of years were him being a solid above average / lower end top-10 workhorse goalie, that was being overrated by anyone that maintained that he was an elite vezina candidate.

And I, the lead "freddy-hater" said that he was obviously below average last year, but not awful. Even then - I was fine with keeping Freddy to platoon with Campbell and fight for starts, and never thought we had to just dump Freddy or pay the price to anoint anyone else "The #1 Starter".

And now, of course, this year he's obviously been terrible. Even then, I could still see him earning back more starts this year and even coming back next year at the right price point!


As far as I can tell, these takes were always honest and continue to be honest.

 

[DarenX]

False.

Even I, the apparent lead freddy-hater from the start, said that Freddy's first couple of years were him being a solid above average / lower end top-10 workhorse goalie, that was being overrated by anyone that maintained that he was an elite vezina candidate.

And I, the lead "freddy-hater" said that he was obviously below average last year, but not awful. Even then - I was fine with keeping Freddy to platoon with Campbell and fight for starts, and never thought we had to just dump Freddy or pay the price to anoint anyone else "The #1 Starter".

And now, of course, this year he's obviously been terrible. Even then, I could still see him earning back more starts this year and even coming back next year at the right price point!


As far as I can tell, these takes were always honest and continue to be honest.

Your takes are fine. Like I said I always seen Freddy as inconsistent. I would much rather a lower 900 goalie than a mid 900 today and possibly a sub 900 tomorrow.

I also see use in Freddy, I wanna see him rested for playoffs and if he turns it on when the time comes, he will give us what most Stanely Cup Champs need to get over that hump.

As for the hate and even the praise for Freddy, it has been back and forth since he came. You may have voiced your disproval during the times we were winning and got some backlash but when we were losing oh boy was he the worse, and screw grapes old senile ass for saying he was the best.

 

[Mr Hockey]

And here's the truth finally.

The people fighting tooth and nail to defend Andersen's obviously terrible play (supported by eye test and all the numbers) clearly are doing it because they are still trying to win old internet arguments about Dubas vs. Lou, not because they're interested in honest evaluations.

I liked Andersen out in duck land, but when he came here, you could see he was very raw and needed a lot of help to refine his game from day 1 ... He greatly improved but never shook the ability to let in untimely soft goals... this has nothing to do with Lou or Dubas, some people here really like Freddy and think he is in a slump is all ... you claimed Levio was a top 6 player and Liligren should have been in the NHL at 19, so dont be to critical of others lol

 

[Mikeyg]

It's the only way to convince yourself that Dubas built a fundamentally flawed rather than admitting that it's one replaceable piece holding us back. Coincidentally, that piece is Lou's biggest move and one of only two still left on the roster.

U right, I like this guy.

 

[kb]

View attachment 410597

2 of the top-10 in the league in save %. LOL

And no Fred.

 

[Racer88]

It's the only way to convince yourself that Dubas built a fundamentally flawed rather than admitting that it's one replaceable piece holding us back. Coincidentally, that piece is Lou's biggest move and one of only two still left on the roster.

If as you say the Leafs only have one replaceable piece holding them back I assume you are referring to goaltending.
I agree that we are one stud goalie away from being a legit contender however a stud goalie is going to cost a tone of money and we do not have the cap space because of how Dubas has structured the team. When he made the decision to pay 50% of the cap to 4 forwards it makes it all but impossible to pay for good players in critical positions.
If he has distributed that 50% in 2 forward, 1 goalie and 1 Dman I would be much more in favour of him

 

[Martin Skoula]

If as you say the Leafs only have one replaceable piece holding them back I assume you are referring to goaltending.
I agree that we are one stud goalie away from being a legit contender however a stud goalie is going to cost a tone of money and we do not have the cap space because of how Dubas has structured the team. When he made the decision to pay 50% of the cap to 4 forwards it makes it all but impossible to pay for good players in critical positions.
If he has distributed that 50% in 2 forward, 1 goalie and 1 Dman I would be much more in favour of him

Expensive goalies don't win cups. The overwhelming majority of cup winners had a starter making around 5-6 mil or less. Price and Bobrovsky contracts are going to hamstring your roster without actually giving you a goaltending edge over teams with 5 mil starters. Vasilievski is really the only exemption and he won the cup as a 3.5 mil goalie before his extension kicked in. Even then, you're not getting a Vasilievski in UFA, you have to draft him.

 

[RealisticLeaf55]

I'm intrigued about the Andersen situation. I think this is a Toskala like scenario where he is playing through an injury that has been ongoing for months. Might be best to roll with Campbell and hutch till Andersen can fully heal.

Nothing wrong with riding the hot hand for a while.

 

[Antropovsky]

What I liked about Campbell was he made all the saves looks pretty routine and easy, with exception to the stacked pad save.

Also obviously his athleticism and willingness to battle. I don't see the willingness to battle from Andersen.

Looking forward to seeing more of him.

 

[Primary Assist]

I am a Fred Andersen supporter. I am also a supporter of meritocracy and giving more ice time to those who have earned it. Clearly, Mr. Campbell has earned the opportunity to prove that he can take on a greater role on this team and I believe it should be his net to lose right now. If Mr. Fred Andersen can prove otherwise, then I would be very happy due to my aforementioned fondness for meritocracy. If Mr. Campbell keeps the net, then I will be equally as happy.

Now that I have said my piece I bid all of you in Leafland a pleasant Sunday's eve.

 

[Stonehands 1]

I'll say it again, Jack Campbell is the man

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The thing with Andersen is that he's always been streaky. When he's good, he's amazing. When he's bad, he's Toskala tier.

Which is why, when healthy, I think they should go Andersen 1A, Campbell 1B. When Andersen is looking good, go with him. But Keefe needs the balls to immediately go Campbell when Andersen looks off.

I actually think this is a great situation for the leafs. Andersen is elite tier when he's "on". And when he's off, we finally have a very good 1b to fill in.

If it turns out Andersen just doesn't get his mojo back, then render him the backup.

I don't understand the "divide" in the fanbase. This is a great situation to be in. Hopefully we can have both of them 100% healthy at the same time, which has barely happened all year.

 

[zeke]

The thing with Andersen is that he's always been streaky.

Thing is in reality this is true of every mediocre goalie. They're all capable of unreal hot streaks.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Why? It took years of bad games for most leafs fans to criticize andersen.

He has been a subpar goalie for well over 100 starts now.

The more you dishonestly try to paint others as biased just for stating simple facts, the more you show everyone that you're the one whose bias is preventing you from honest evaluation.

Your original post above is 100% wrong. It's not a simple fact, it's not any kind of fact, it's just wrong. LOL at you posting this nonsense and calling me dishonest for calling you on it.

We run goalies and Dmen out of town faster than any fan base in the NHL. The idea that we'd suffer through years of bad play from a goalie before criticizing is just ... I don't even know what to say to that except .

Thanks for the laugh I guess.

 

[zeke]

Your original post above is 100% wrong. It's not a simple fact, it's not any kind of fact, it's just wrong. LOL at you posting this nonsense and calling me dishonest for calling you on it.

We run goalies and Dmen out of town faster than any fan base in the NHL. The idea that we'd suffer through years of bad play from a goalie before criticizing is just ... I don't even know what to say to that except .

Thanks for the laugh I guess.

100% honest take. Years of subpar play before finally the majority is admitting now that he hasn't been good.


And then you post your nonsense claiming all of us say things we never said and hold Fred to standards we never held him to.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Thing is in reality this is true of every mediocre goalie. They're all capable of unreal hot streaks.

Every player and goalie have , can and will win Playoff series and cups
16 games that’s all
Many in history have had these stretches and won it all for their teams
I’m sure everyone knows one of them almost every year and some that were completely on fire for those stretches

 

[Gary Nylund]

100% honest take. Years of subpar play before finally the majority is admitting now that he hasn't been good.

And then you post your nonsense claiming all of us say things we never said and hold Fred to standards we never held him to.

LOL. You're spinning so far off the track it's pathetic.

 

[zeke]

LOL. You're spinning so far off the track it's pathetic.

Read your own posts. Just wild accusations of everyone else being Fred haters just for pointing out he's clearly been bad, and hasn't been better than average in a long long while now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Read your own posts. Just wild accusations of everyone else being Fred haters just for pointing out he's clearly been bad, and hasn't been better than average in a long long while now.

LOL this just keeps getting better and better. I've said many times that he's been bad this season and last (except for last year's playoffs). Every now and then I do stick up for him when people talk as if he's the only one to blame for every game we lose and every goal we allow which is obviously insane. Why does that upset you so much?

Not only have I said that Freddie's been bad, I've also said our #1 priority should be fixing our goalie problem and we shouldn't even think about spending on rentals etc. until we've done that so you're either not reading my posts, not understanding what you're reading or just making stuff up.

 

[zeke]

LOL this just keeps getting better and better. I've said many times that he's been bad this season and last (except for last year's playoffs). Every now and then I do stick up for him when people talk as if he's the only one to blame for every game we lose and every goal we allow which is obviously insane. Why does that upset you so much?

Not only have I said that Freddie's been bad, I've also said our #1 priority should be fixing our goalie problem and we shouldn't even think about spending on rentals etc. until we've done that so you're either not reading my posts, not understanding what you're reading or just making stuff up.

Read your posts. You're the one attacking everyone as biased.