Post-Game Talk: It's true Jets lose 4-2

[PhilJets]

Maurice singing in his office.

I hope they can turn it around......

Buff Little Heinola Niku

Will be a big boost

 

[John Agar]

He knows no other way it seems. He rides his top guys too hard.

Thus why I asked for the deployment...

Courage is not in play right now in leadership on the bench...

 

[Mbraunm]

Thanks 'ixon...

Now not directed at Surixon...

Why burnout Chef and Wheels...?

Why not make lines that are balanced...?

Ask the team to play defense first...

Change the special teams strategies to active...

And make sure every line gets even minutes...

You can't ask the defensive core to change... get better... not possible...

I agree with you, but these simple decisions require a good coach, which has always been our greatest weakness.

 

[LowLefty]

Thanks 'ixon...

Now not directed at Surixon...

Why burnout Chef and Wheels...?

Why not make lines that are balanced...?

Ask the team to play defense first...

Change the special teams strategies to active...

And make sure every line gets even minutes...

You can't ask the defensive core to change... get better... not possible...

Good points - why cant they play better over all D?
Not that I know - but they are not d minded players - they are O players that have never really relied or even learned that aspect.
It will take a very special coaching talent to change the stripes on our top 4 or 5 players. I think teams like Tampa and the Leafs struggle with this same challenge

 

[John Agar]

I agree with you, but these simple decisions require a good coach, which has always been our greatest weakness.

Simple decisions... ?

My experience with persons in chaos or under pressure out of their element... ?

Lack of courage... running for the hills... falling back on their fears... not accepting the evidence/situation...

 

[surixon]

Thus why I asked...

Courage is not in play right now in leadership on the bench...

I agree he is too risk adverse for his own good sometimes. If you want to be a fast team dress a roster that will allow you to be a fast team and live with the growing pains, don't try to half ass it by putting in low upside vets that can't play that brand of hockey. He puts a bit too much emphasis on experience, yes it is useful to have but only if materializes to solid play on the ice.

Also have the courage to try to balance the top 9. You don't have to have all your best players on one line. Most of the best teams tend to spread them around to create matchup issues.

 

[LowLefty]

I agree he is too risk adverse for his own good sometimes. If you want to be a fast team dress a roster that will allow you to be a fast team and live with the growing pains, don't try to half ass it by putting in low upside vets that can't play that brand of hockey. He puts a bit too much emphasis on experience, yes it is useful to have but only if materializes to solid play on the ice.

Also have the courage to try to balance the top 9. You don't have to have all your best players on one line. Most of the best teams tend to spread them around to create matchup issues.

Right -
But how do you convince them that right now, the D aspect of their game might be more important than the O.

Edit - don't mean to jump into your discussion but it's interesting

 

[John Agar]

Good points - why cant they play better over all D?
Not that I know - but they are not d minded players - they are O players that have never really relied or even learned that aspect.
It will take a very special coaching talent to change the stripes on our top 4 or 5 players. I think teams like Tampa and the Leafs struggle with this same challenge

I will take Tampa's challenges as a coach any day...

I (with much revulsion) would take the Leafs' (ack) challenges...

The Jets' coaching brain trust isn't facing reality...

Not the same challenges as Tampa or Toronto...

This might take changes on the bench in order to get the overall buy in to D' first... buy into survival for that matter...

No one enjoys playing on a losing team...

Salvage some belief...

 

[John Agar]

Right -
But how do you convince them that right now, the D aspect of their game might be more important than the O.

Edit - don't mean to jump into your discussion but it's interesting

Sacrifice something "them/they" love...

 

[surixon]

Good points - why cant they play better over all D?
Not that I know - but they are not d minded players - they are O players that have never really relied or even learned that aspect.
It will take a very special coaching talent to change the stripes on our top 4 or 5 players. I think teams like Tampa and the Leafs struggle with this same challenge

Scheifele is solid defensively when he is engaged but still he's no Bergeron. I think we are caught between what type of team we have drafted to have and what type of team Maurice likes to coach.

Maurice has always been a d minded coach that tends to stiffen offense to get it. He also has always liked an aggressive forecheck with emphasis on the cycle and zone time.

This team is built around skill and speed at all positions.

The players ares struggling to implement his defensive schemes and he is struggling to build a system around the players.

I don't wish him any ill will but I don't think he is the right fit for where this roster is heading.

 

[John Agar]

Scheifele is solid defensively when he is engaged but still he's no Bergeron. I think we are caught between what type of team we have drafted to have and what type of team Maurice likes to coach.

Maurice has always been a d minded coach that tends to stiffen offense to get it. He also has always liked an aggressive forecheck with emphasis on the cycle and zone time.

This team is built around skill and speed at all positions.

The players ares struggling to implement his defensive schemes and he is struggling to build a system around the players.

I don't wish him any ill will but I don't think he is the right fit for where this roster is heading.

As I said above...

-------------------------------------------

Sacrifice something "them/they" love...



-------------------------------------------

 

[lomiller1]

How as a organization can you not have a better 2nd line centre option than Andrew Copp, don't get me wrong he plays well with Lowry and whoever but he doesn't have the skill set to play with upper end players.

Playing Copp there the right way deploy players. There are diminishing returns to staking skilled players together and you want someone who can do the dirty work to get the puck for the skill guys. What good is having 3 offensively gifted players when they never have the puck? Meanwhile what good does it do to have all the players who can get the puck on the same line if none of them can do anything with it afterwards?

 

[LowLefty]

Scheifele is solid defensively when he is engaged but still he's no Bergeron. I think we are caught between what type of team we have drafted to have and what type of team Maurice likes to coach.

Maurice has always been a d minded coach that tends to stiffen offense to get it. He also has always liked an aggressive forecheck with emphasis on the cycle and zone time.

This team is built around skill and speed at all positions.

The players ares struggling to implement his defensive schemes and he is struggling to build a system around the players.

I don't wish him any ill will but I don't think he is the right fit for where this roster is heading.

Even Scheif has fallen off considerably with this D game - and the rest don't even know what a D game is.

Maybe the best way to put it is, they have always been asked to add a D element to their game but now, with the extreme challenges with our back end, it's become much more than that.

Priorities have changed - the highly skilled were asked to add an element and now they are being asked to reinvent their game to support the gaping hole in front of Helle - and it has to happen fast because there doesn't appear to be even a slow fix in place for this issue.
This would be an extreme challenge for any coach under similar circumstances -

So, you're right - the players are struggling to implement the defensive game - but under these circumstances, I can understand why.

 

[LowLefty]

Sacrifice something "them/they" love...

Sure -
That's like saying, be better defensively - starting now.

 

[John Agar]

Sure -
That's like saying, be better defensively - starting now.

Human psychology is a complex thing...

But in chaos and failure...

Statistics are there...

That vacuum changes how people think...

Brutal but true...

Could also be a positive reinforcement for those that don't like the systems/deployment...

They/Them would pickup their commitment... their efforts...

Oh... and they would have more chance to develop...

 

[lomiller1]

Right -
But how do you convince them that right now, the D aspect of their game might be more important than the O.

There is plenty of talent available to PM, yeah some of it is young, so coach them up. That is his job title after all. What we need is a coach who plays to the strengths of the players he has instead of plugging in guys who are terrible versions of the player he wants. Defending better instead of less is questionable in todays NHL even when you have D-men who defend well, and we don't. PM has an abundance of puck moving talent available to him, so he needs to focus no using that to transition quickly so his team spends less time defending instead of putting in replacement level journeymen and hoping they will defend better.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Watching the game live, I found it hard to believe that the players are actually following some kind of system or are even trying their best.

have to go to bed, but many missed assignments and flat out missed opportunities to make really obvious plays.

I think they’ve tuned out Maurice because there is no way that this talented bunch should be this bad. At least I hope this is the case, otherwise we simply are not very good.

 

[surixon]

Right -
But how do you convince them that right now, the D aspect of their game might be more important than the O.

Edit - don't mean to jump into your discussion but it's interesting

Here are my thoughts on the matter:

A more balanced lineup composition will mitigate some of the defensive challenges. Instead putting all your offensive players together and all of your defensive players together (Moe likes to specialize his lines) spreading those elements around will help make up for certain deficiencies. We have enough solid defensive players that we can spread them around a bit.

• The top line was not a defensive liability with Ehlers on it. Right now you have Scheifele trying to carry all the mail in that regard. If he has help from one of his wingers (Sorry but Wheeler is very mediocre in his own end) then the line will be fine.
• Roslovic contrary to what most people think is a pretty balanced player, good on offense and defense which is why his line with Perrault and Appelton have had good success.
• That leaves two lines to solve. I think moving Copp back with Lowry helps that line tremendously. Having Little with Connor and Wheeler helps that line.

It is also why Morrissey looked much better when you put Pionk on his pairing today. With Poolman he was being asked to do it all, puck moving as Poolman is poor there and covering for a player who is in over their head defensively. The end result results is the team spending more time in our end. With Pionk he can at least move the puck quickly and gaps well in he nz so JoMo only really has to cover for him defensively. The team isn't defending as much and can press more. Morrissey also looked excellent with Niku in the preseason for the same reason.

Balance is a good thing that takes pressure off of your best players

Maurice also needs to manage the minutes of our top players. Hard to stay mentally and physically engaged when playing big minutes every game. The same is probably true of players playing too few minutes (Hard to stay sharp when you don't play much)

I think a more offensive style will help as well as the more time on the offensive the less time hopefully defending. Quick skating dmen that can hard gap with forward back pressure in the nz will force a lot of dump ins. With a mobile and active d that can quickly transition those dump ins back out of your end.

Also spending less time in our end will lead to better 5 man defense as there will be less chance of pulling a player out of position or a player missing a switch. Also less fatigue playing it.

I will have to look more at how we defend as a 5 man unit, perhaps we need to simplify the system.

I also think players will be more motivated to defend if they see the offensive benefit to it. The way it is now we generally have a hard time gaining any offensive traction after extended time in our end.

 

[Larabee]

Look at the St. Louis Blues after firing Yeo. That could be us.

I wish people wouldn't compare the two teams. The Blues defenseman roster >> Jets defenseman roster. There is no hope for a similar turnaround for the Jets, unless Chevy somehow rebuilds the defense mid season.... which I don't think is wise or even possible.

 

[surixon]

There is plenty of talent available to PM, yeah some of it is young, so coach them up. That is his job title after all. What we need is a coach who plays to the strengths of the players he has instead of plugging in guys who are terrible versions of the player he wants. Defending better instead of less is questionable in todays NHL even when you have D-men who defend well, and we don't. PM has an abundance of puck moving talent available to him, so he needs to focus no using that to transition quickly so his team spends less time defending instead of putting in replacement level journeymen and hoping they will defend better.

Exactly, it is more mentally taxing to defend so the easiest solution is to defend less. I believe you should be trying to make life as easy as possible for your best players not more difficult.

 

[surixon]

Even Scheif has fallen off considerably with this D game - and the rest don't even know what a D game is.

Maybe the best way to put it is, they have always been asked to add a D element to their game but now, with the extreme challenges with our back end, it's become much more than that.

Priorities have changed - the highly skilled were asked to add an element and now they are being asked to reinvent their game to support the gaping hole in front of Helle - and it has to happen fast because there doesn't appear to be even a slow fix in place for this issue.
This would be an extreme challenge for any coach under similar circumstances -

So, you're right - the players are struggling to implement the defensive game - but under these circumstances, I can understand why.

I'm not sure if I agree this year. I think it looks that way due to having to do so much of the heavy lifting.

 

[Zippity]

I didn’t watch the game, was the line blender out in full force?

 

[Teemusalami204]

One game closer to Maurice no longer being coach!

I wish this was true. I feel he has a free pass because of the defense Chevy has gave him.

 

[bluefan]

I wish people wouldn't compare the two teams. The Blues defenseman roster >> Jets defenseman roster. There is no hope for a similar turnaround for the Jets, unless Chevy somehow rebuilds the defense mid season.... which I don't think is wise or even possible.

Exactly. Anyone reserving judgement because of what the Blues did last year need to take off their pink sunglasses.

This team is a gongshow. Not a complete gongshow, but a gongshow nonetheless.

 

[PhilJets]

I dont want to look at the standings


So i look here