Blue Jays Discussion: It's still the off-season (Ray: Cy Young, Berrios: 7yr ext, Semien: to TEX, Gausman: signs 5y/$110m)

[Bluelines]

Lukes was drafted by Cleveland in 2015, when Shapiro and Atkins were with them.

If Springer is healthy, what's the odds Grichuk and his $10.3 million contract is here opening day 2022? I gotta think that they would rather use that money + for a pitcher.

 

[phillipmike]

If Springer is healthy, what's the odds Grichuk and his $10.3 million contract is here opening day 2022? I gotta think that they would rather use that money + for a pitcher.

Im sure the Jays would love to get rid of Grichuk's 10.3M but there will be no takers unless they take on similar money for a different need like David Price, Jean Segura who was discussed last year, maybe Didi Gregorious who is a lefty bat who can play 3B/SS/2B for us.

I think a Grichuk for Didi trade would make sense if they Jays strikeout on landing a 3B. Phillies would save $5M in 2022 and the Jays save $10 in 2023.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Im sure the Jays would love to get rid of Grichuk's 10.3M but there will be no takers unless they take on similar money for a different need like David Price, Jean Segura who was discussed last year, maybe Didi Gregorious who is a lefty bat who can play 3B/SS/2B for us.

I think a Grichuk for Didi trade would make sense if they Jays strikeout on landing a 3B. Phillies would save $5M in 2022 and the Jays save $10 in 2023.

I don't know. The Philles saving 5 million seems dis-proportionally favourable to them than us saving 10 dollars

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

What I'm hoping Atkins is able to pull off,

Sign-
Gausman
Gray
Frazier

Trade For-
Ramirez (Gurriel + Groshans + prospects)
SP/BP depth (use Kirk, Grichuk,)

Cleveland isn't trading Ramirez for anyone not named Martinez or Moreno

 

[Eyedea]

Cleveland isn't trading Ramirez for anyone not named Martinez or Moreno

Groshans is a great piece too and he’ll be knocking on the door next season.

What teams want and what teams settle for always end up being two completely different things. Upper echelon prospects rarely get moved these days.

 

[phillipmike]

I don't know. The Philles saving 5 million seems dis-proportionally favourable to them than us saving 10 dollars

My mistake, Phillies save $5M in 2022 and the Jays save in $10M in 2023. Jays may have to pick up $3-5M of Grichuk's contract to make it worthwhile for the Phillies. But the Phillies do need a CF and they have a few left side of the infield options in Segura, Bohm and Stotts.

 

[Canada4Gold]

My mistake, Phillies save $5M in 2022 and the Jays save in $10M in 2023. Jays may have to pick up $3-5M of Grichuk's contract to make it worthwhile for the Phillies. But the Phillies do need a CF and they have a few left side of the infield options in Segura, Bohm and Stotts.

I knew what you meant of course. It does make sense. I'd prefer to perhaps do the same thing with a #5 pitcher who's expiring instead. But that opportunity might not be out there.

 

[TGB]

Don't trade with the Indians. They drive a hard bargain and there is no shortage of good pitchers and 3B's out there that can be had for much less.

Not sure why everyone is so eager to dump a good defensive outfielder who is good for 20 HRs and 80 RBIs especially considering this team's outfield core consists of so many inconsistent and injury prone players. You'd likely have an easier time dumping Ryu, anyway.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[kb]

Don't trade with the Indians. They drive a hard bargain and there is no shortage of good pitchers and 3B's out there that can be had for much less.

Not sure why everyone is so eager to dump a good defensive outfielder who is good for 20 HRs and 80 RBIs especially considering this team's outfield core consists of so many inconsistent and injury prone players. You'd likely have an easier time dumping Ryu, anyway.

Ryu is one season removed from a top-3 Cy Young voting result. Easier to bet on him regaining some of that form rather than Grichuk suddenly figuring things out.

 

[Bjindaho]

Ryu is one season removed from a top-3 Cy Young voting result. Easier to bet on him regaining some of that form rather than Grichuk suddenly figuring things out.

I think his point is that Toronto shouldn't trade Grichuk for pieces that don't fit. At worst, he's an overpaid good clubhouse guy.

 

[kb]

I think his point is that Toronto shouldn't trade Grichuk for pieces that don't fit. At worst, he's an overpaid good clubhouse guy.

Keeping Grichuk and his $10+ million as a 4th OF and trading someone who finished in the top-3 in Cy Young voting as recently as 2020 seems to be lacking in any discernible logic when the team has already lost Matz and are possibly losing Ray. The Jays would then only have Berrios and Manoah as guaranteed rotation pieces if Ryu is moved.

 

[TGB]

Keeping Grichuk and his $10+ million as a 4th OF and trading someone who finished in the top-3 in Cy Young voting as recently as 2020 seems to be lacking in any discernible logic

Everyone knows Roark came off their payroll this year, right? That's $12 million. And Dickerson was another $9 or so.

Well, good thing I didn't actually say they should dump Ryu over Grichuk. That was actually a misread on your part. All I said was that it would be easier to dump Ryu, because, you know, they tried to trade Grichuk before and nobody wanted him, NOT that in a "keep Grichuk or Ryu scenario, always keep Grichuk". That's ridiculous especially given the current pitching situation (but, hey, if they QO'd Matz like I suggested, it wouldn't be that big an issue, now, would it?).
And, really, if they had a chance to get an equivalent level pitcher for the same amount of money, are you telling me they shouldn't go for it? And let's not forget a good bit of Ryu's success last year was the result of the season ending before he got fatigued. This year it didn't, and literally one bad start cost them the playoffs.

And you really shouldn't question my logic. My logic has routinely proven to be right with scary accuracy. I know, a lot of people around here will deny it, but that's what sore losers do. I was talking about this EXACT SAME SITUATION long before you guys ever even considered it. I just figured it would be Berrios who walked over Ray, and OF COURSE Matz was going to walk, heh.

I think his point is that Toronto shouldn't trade Grichuk for pieces that don't fit. At worst, he's an overpaid good clubhouse guy.

False. My point was the current outfield situation is terrific at best and solid at worst and shouldn't be tweaked over $10 million. When Springer gets injured, and he will, then you will want a guy who can potentially put up big numbers. Or you can have Palacios or some speedy waiver claim who...won't. Sorry, guys, but league average players do not sign 4th outfielder contracts. Only 4th outfielder caliber players do and they're 4th outfielders for a reason.
I mean, unless you actually believe Dickerson can play the outfield. Now there's money better spent elsewhere.

The infield situation is actually similar. A full season of Springer (hopefully) and an upswing (literally and figuratively) from Jansen will take care of Semien's lost production. Not like we HAVE to have all-stars at every position. Plenty of well above average production on this team, and they were figuring out how to hit in the clutch more consistently come September.

The only REAL problem is the pitching, but, again, they have the means to address it with what they have. They have some money. They have tantalizing young players to deal (and still have some leftover for themselves), and their bullpen...well, bullpens are voodoo so who knows, but it they still have the more interesting options and it isn't exactly normal to lose half your best relievers at the beginning of the season.

 

[Kurtz]

Everyone knows Roark came off their payroll this year, right? That's $12 million. And Dickerson was another $9 or so.

Jays were only on the hook for around $2m of Dickerson's salary this year.

However, there were a number of other dismissed sunk cost players on the payroll that have now been shed that account for substantial savings.

Also, $10 mil for a 4th OF is obviously onerous, and if we can shed that full amount and replace him with a 4th OF at a lesser cost, ideally one who bats left and can play tolerable CF (ie Dickerson for ~$5m), that would be optimal use of resources.

 

[dredeye]

And you really shouldn't question my logic. My logic has routinely proven to be right with scary accuracy. I know, a lot of people around here will deny it, but that's what sore losers do. I was talking about this EXACT SAME SITUATION long before you guys ever even considered it. I just figured it would be Berrios who walked over Ray, and OF COURSE Matz was going to walk, heh.

This has got to be the most arrogant posts I've ever read here. Were you talking to yourself about it? But how dare he question your logic lol.

 

[Emerica]

This has got to be the most arrogant posts I've ever read here. Were you talking to yourself about it? But how dare he question your logic lol.

If you told me this was a Donald Trump quote, I’d believe you. Geez

 

[TML Dynasty]

And you really shouldn't question my logic. My logic has routinely proven to be right with scary accuracy. I know, a lot of people around here will deny it, but that's what sore losers do.

lol, wow.....

And separately, Im not sure banking on a healthy Springer is a good idea

 

[Amadeus]

I'd like Dickerson back. Solid bench bat.

 

[Leafs1991]

Everyone knows Roark came off their payroll this year, right? That's $12 million. And Dickerson was another $9 or so.

Well, good thing I didn't actually say they should dump Ryu over Grichuk. That was actually a misread on your part. All I said was that it would be easier to dump Ryu, because, you know, they tried to trade Grichuk before and nobody wanted him, NOT that in a "keep Grichuk or Ryu scenario, always keep Grichuk". That's ridiculous especially given the current pitching situation (but, hey, if they QO'd Matz like I suggested, it wouldn't be that big an issue, now, would it?).
And, really, if they had a chance to get an equivalent level pitcher for the same amount of money, are you telling me they shouldn't go for it? And let's not forget a good bit of Ryu's success last year was the result of the season ending before he got fatigued. This year it didn't, and literally one bad start cost them the playoffs.

And you really shouldn't question my logic. My logic has routinely proven to be right with scary accuracy. I know, a lot of people around here will deny it, but that's what sore losers do. I was talking about this EXACT SAME SITUATION long before you guys ever even considered it. I just figured it would be Berrios who walked over Ray, and OF COURSE Matz was going to walk, heh.



False. My point was the current outfield situation is terrific at best and solid at worst and shouldn't be tweaked over $10 million. When Springer gets injured, and he will, then you will want a guy who can potentially put up big numbers. Or you can have Palacios or some speedy waiver claim who...won't. Sorry, guys, but league average players do not sign 4th outfielder contracts. Only 4th outfielder caliber players do and they're 4th outfielders for a reason.
I mean, unless you actually believe Dickerson can play the outfield. Now there's money better spent elsewhere.

The infield situation is actually similar. A full season of Springer (hopefully) and an upswing (literally and figuratively) from Jansen will take care of Semien's lost production. Not like we HAVE to have all-stars at every position. Plenty of well above average production on this team, and they were figuring out how to hit in the clutch more consistently come September.

The only REAL problem is the pitching, but, again, they have the means to address it with what they have. They have some money. They have tantalizing young players to deal (and still have some leftover for themselves), and their bullpen...well, bullpens are voodoo so who knows, but it they still have the more interesting options and it isn't exactly normal to lose half your best relievers at the beginning of the season.

Thats very cocky of you. If you knew so much, while aren't you working for the MLB?

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[phillipmike]

Proposing 5 blockbuster Black Friday trades

A Blue Jays blockbuster

Blue Jays get: 2B/CF Ketel Marte
Guardians get: C Alejandro Kirk
D-backs get: IF Cavan Biggio, RHP Gunnar Hoglund (Blue Jays’ No. 4 prospect), RHP Daniel Espino (Guardians’ No. 5 prospect), OF Josh Palacios (Blue Jays’ No. 21 prospect)

Marcus Semien’s pillow contract with the Blue Jays proved to be comfortable for both parties. But with Semien likely to sign one of the largest free-agent contracts of the winter and possibly prioritize his West Coast roots, the Blue Jays have to be thinking about other ways to maintain their elite second-base production.

Here's a way to do it. Marte is a 28-year-old switch-hitter with power and an attractive strikeout rate who can easily slot into the No. 2 spot in the batting order that Semien departed. Though he primarily played center field in 2019 and 2021, Marte is comfortable and capable of giving Toronto above-average defense at second, and his contractual terms -- $8.4 million guarantee in 2022, $8 million team option in 2023, $10 million team option in 2024 -- are extremely attractive and would allow the Blue Jays to dedicate the bulk of their free-agent budget to the pitching staff.

In this proposal, Toronto deals from an area of depth at catcher, and Cleveland fills a big need for offense in that spot with Kirk, a controllable 23-year-old with elite contact skills.
The D-backs, meanwhile, get young pieces from both clubs as they retool. They’d have plenty of at-bats to offer Biggio, who can play all around the diamond and of course has loads of pedigree that hasn’t yet blossomed in the big leagues.

I like Marte but to call him a CFer isnt accurate. He is an elite 2B, but cant play CF well as of late. So thats basically Kirk, Biggio and Hoglund for a top 3-5 2B. His bat fits in well but i dont know if i want to pay that price. Marte is elite but 2B is very easy to fill. If Marte was an elite 3B, i would do it, if not i rather use money to improve and keep the prospects for the deadline.

Trade 1: Thats a lot of moving pieces. Oakland gets a lot of top prospects.
Trade 2: This doesnt make a lot of sense for Seattle.
Trade 4: Makes sense for both sides
Trade 5: I doubt Miami makes that trade, they are trading control for a 1 year rental?

 

[Bluelines]

Don't trade with the Indians. They drive a hard bargain and there is no shortage of good pitchers and 3B's out there that can be had for much less.

Not sure why everyone is so eager to dump a good defensive outfielder who is good for 20 HRs and 80 RBIs especially considering this team's outfield core consists of so many inconsistent and injury prone players. You'd likely have an easier time dumping Ryu, anyway.

Not so sure we are eager to trade him as much as we have Ryu who cratered last year, possibly Ray is moving on and Maetz moved on, our 1#, #2 and # 4 pitcher gone/possibly gone/a question mark. I feel we need the money for pitching and not just a warm body, I think we need two really good starters.

 

[Eyedea]

Jays were only on the hook for around $2m of Dickerson's salary this year.

However, there were a number of other dismissed sunk cost players on the payroll that have now been shed that account for substantial savings.

Also, $10 mil for a 4th OF is obviously onerous, and if we can shed that full amount and replace him with a 4th OF at a lesser cost, ideally one who bats left and can play tolerable CF (ie Dickerson for ~$5m), that would be optimal use of resources.

Woah. If I didn’t know any better I would’ve thought this post was questioning his logic.

 

[Bjindaho]

Woah. If I didn’t know any better I would’ve thought this post was questioning his logic.

62 innings does not tell us that Dickerson can play CF.

 

[Fourier]

Vlad Guerrero Jr .: “I'm working harder than I did last year in the offseason. My goal is to arrive in my best physical condition at spring training and have a better season than the one I had this year so I can help the Blue Jays win the World Series."

Vladdy Jr.: “My main goal is to help the Blue Jays advance to the playoffs and win the World Series. If you ask me to choose between the MVP award and the Blue Jays qualifying for the playoffs, I prefer that my team qualify. That's more important to me than winning an award.”

VIDEOS of Vladdy's Training below;

Vladdy is gold!