Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[hockeywiz542]

Here we go.

Friedman also said he thinks the Pens wont hire a POHO and GM. They're looking to hire one "lead person" and fill out the team from there. They'll use the POHO title if they have to promote someone to GM to get them out of another organization.

Report: Penguins Granted Permission to Speak to Former Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas, More Fallout Expected? - The Hockey News

Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman reported on Saturday night the Penguins were expected to ask for permission to speak to former Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas.

"As we tape this early Sunday evening after Game 2 of the Western Conference Final (between the Dallas Stars and Vegas Golden Knights) that they do have permission to speak to Dubas," Friedman said on the 32 Thoughts Podcast. "If this is going to go anywhere, I think we're going to find out pretty quickly.

Dubas was dismissed by the Maple Leafs on Friday following a nine-year tenure with the club and serving the last five years as the team's general manager.

Friedman noted that the Penguins ownership (Fenway Sports Group) was close to ending their search at the time of Dubas' dismissal.

There has already been fallout following Maple Leafs president Brendan Shanahan's decision to dismiss Dubas, whose contract with Toronto expires on June 30.

Special assistant to the GM, Jason Spezza, tendered his resignation from the club in the aftermath of Dubas' firing.

Friedman described the vibe in MLSE from a source inside who described it as "like the Hunger Games".

Autonomy and "Streamlining"

It's been reported that Dubas didn't like the reporting structure and pitched "streaming" the decision-making process. Friedman reports that in Dubas' negotiations on a new contract, he proposed a faster process in the decision-making process, particularly with what lies ahead with the team's roster for the 2023-24 season.

"He believed in the way their reporting (structure) worked, it wasn't going to get done," Friedman said. "He was worried things were going to get out (in public). He was worried that decisions could not be made quick enough."

According to Friedman, people inside MLSE told him "that request was not well-received."

 

[Pens1566]

I've never been a fan of Tavares. Anytime I've watched him he just never lived up to the hype. So yeah, that contract/signing was a giant "oooof".

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Eh, disagree. I don't thinking signing a guy who's probably never gonna crack 90pts in his career to north of $11 million ever made sense, especially 5 years ago. But it's whatever.

Yea you don't offer contracts over $10M unless he is a franchise or generational guy like Sid/Matthews/Makar/etc

JT is not in that tier and that contract has been an albatross for the franchise in the past couple seasons

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Friedman described the vibe in MLSE from a source inside who described it as "like the Hunger Games".

Autonomy and "Streamlining"

It's been reported that Dubas didn't like the reporting structure and pitched "streaming" the decision-making process. Friedman reports that in Dubas' negotiations on a new contract, he proposed a faster process in the decision-making process, particularly with what lies ahead with the team's roster for the 2023-24 season.

"He believed in the way their reporting (structure) worked, it wasn't going to get done," Friedman said. "He was worried things were going to get out (in public). He was worried that decisions could not be made quick enough."

According to Friedman, people inside MLSE told him "that request was not well-received."

I feel like this validates my suspicions: Dubas wants out of the politics/red tape surrounding the Maple Leafs. I've seen these types of corporate structures where it's 3 levels of approval just to get a summer intern hired.

It's not right or wrong, it's just how they do business (cautiously)

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

To be clear, I don't think Tavares is shit or anything. He's just a good player, and you don't pay good players franchise cornerstone money regardless of how much you think the cap's gonna go up in 5 years or whatever.

I think that decision and contract were pretty heavily influenced by the hype around him leaving Long Island and being from Toronto, coupled with Toronto having too much money for their own good and impatience when it came to where they were as an organization at the time. Not a great situation for a rookie GM to navigate.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I guess I don't really hate Tavares or think he sucks or anything but 11M seems pretty outta control for a guy that's just kind of a middle-of-the-road star player and not touching "franchise" or "elite" status. There's lots of 80 point guys (that don't make 11M) out there these days, ya know?

 

[SEALBound]

It certainly wasn't giving Tavares a blank check to come home or giving every RFA what they asked for, or the merry-go-round of mediocre goalies. Couldn't be that.

I don't hold that against him though as much as some. I mean, you're talking Matthews, Tavaras, Nylander, and Marner here. It's not like RFA Bryan Rust was turning the screws on him and he caved. These are elite players that wanted to get paid what they are worth. And you had a franchise level 1C that wanted to sign with you as well. It was damn near "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Imagine letting any one of them go. You'd be crucified forever. Maybe slightly less for Nylander but still. "Oh, Mitch Marner wanted money so I told him no". Imagine the Toronto hockey media mafia's reaction to that.

Friedman also said he thinks the Pens wont hire a POHO and GM. They're looking to hire one "lead person" and fill out the team from there. They'll use the POHO title if they have to promote someone to GM to get them out of another organization.

Titles matter to people. I do that all the time actually.

FWIW, I still prefer Tulsky to every name linked to the team, but Dubas is pretty easily a second option to me. No real desire to land MacKinnon. I have issues with Darche. I absolutely do not want Bergevin or Chiarelli for very obvious reasons.

GMs are weird. People dunked on Zito for years and now people are heaping praise on the guy because of the Tkachuk deal. Nobody knows how Dubas (or Tulsky for that matter) would do here. I think we tend to rip on GMs, but outside of absolute dipshits like JR and Hextall, luck goes a long way toward making guys look good or bad.

Zito was one Penguins win away from being a f***ing goat, though. All things considered, this Florida run - is quite impressive given the confluence of events leading up to it.

 

[Darren McCord]

You mean the guys Dubas handed the keys to the castle to?

Umm who’s that? Matthew’s and meaner would get those contracts from anyone.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

San Jose was offering 12.5M AAV for Tavares.There's a lot of bad GMs out there.
I'd trust some Redditors or HFers as GM over some current GMs, easily. Hell, I would trust myself over some of these guys, and I think rather lowly of myself.

It's shocking how these guys ascend so high. Like how does Chiarelli still even get interviews?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Besides, who knows? Maybe this is all for naught and Dubas wants to take a vacation. Can't really blame him after having Shanahan mouth-breathing down his neck for years and being smack dab in the middle of arguably the worst hockey fanbase/media/town of all.

I imagine we'll probably get an answer as to who this FO is gonna be comprised of sooner than later. Gut feeling says they were settled on Tulsky (and still might be) before Dubas, and now they're just seeing if Dubas would be down with joining the FO, or they're weighing between Tulsky and Dubas to man the wheel of this thing moving forward.

Tulsky is probably my #1 target, though I don't *really* f***ing know a thing about him or how he'd be as a GM. I think Dubas gets too much shit for Toronto, and I'd be fine with him, hoping he learned a lot from Toronto and would build on the experience. I'm not interested in MacKinnon really, I'm pretty down on Darche, and I absolutely do not want Bergevin or Chiarelli to be involved in any capacity whatsoever.

 

[IcedCapp]

i'm hearing that, if Dubas isn't the choice, FSG is bringing back Ray Shero to finish off the core

 

[ChaosAgent]

Tavares was a high pedigree player scoring ~35-40 goals a season at a point a game. His skating always limited his ultimate upside relative to other 1OAs; he did not have the wheels.

But he was the big fish in his free agency and he was going to get paid by whoever got him. Maybe Dubas could have gotten $1-$1.5M lower AAV but I don't blame him for signing Tavares. That isn't the issue anyway.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

San Jose was offering 12.5M AAV for Tavares.There's a lot of bad GMs out there.
I'd trust some Redditors or HFers as GM over some current GMs, easily. Hell, I would trust myself over some of these guys, and I think rather lowly of myself.

It's shocking how these guys ascend so high. Like how does Chiarelli still even get interviews?

I always thought that this idea that "the cap will just keep going up and up!" was hopeful, at best. Dishonest at worst. Especially considering that this is a bit of a backwater league and stability and doing things first class is not exactly the watchword.

As for Chia... he played at little for Harvard and has connections. After he joined the network with his Boston gig he gets to be recycled for at least the next 20 years. That's how it works.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I always thought that this idea that "the cap will just keep going up and up!" was hopeful, at best. Dishonest at worst. Especially considering that this is a bit of a backwater league and stability and doing things first class is not exactly the watchword.

As for Chia... he played at little for Harvard and has connections. After he joined the network with his Boston gig he gets to be recycled for at least the next 20 years. That's how it works.

Everyone banked on inflation in the cap until COVID and the RSN bubble bursting.

It's not realistic for a GM to forecast RSN bubble bursting 5 years down the line. But it is ridiculous when it happens the week before you trade a 2nd to take on a husk of a player for 2 more years at $5M AAV, Mr. Hextall.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Tavares was never worth that salary. It was a bad deal from the start because when you're paying someone that kind of money -- especially as an offensive player who is only mediocre defensively; we're not talking Barkov/Kopitar defense to go with 80 points -- they better be one of the top offensive producers every year. Tavares, in his entire career, has finished top 5 once and top 10 twice. On top of that, he's never scored over 90 points and he's never scored 50 goals. Nothing about that screams "$11 million player".

The defense I've seen about the signing about "well, he's a free agent. Other teams were offering more" falls short because all that means is some other team was willing to overpay him even more than Toronto. That doesn't suddenly justify Toronto's signing.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Everyone banked on inflation in the cap until COVID and the RSN bubble bursting.

It's not realistic for a GM to forecast RSN bubble bursting 5 years down the line. But it is ridiculous when it happens the week before you trade a 2nd to take on a husk of a player for 2 more years at $5M AAV, Mr. Hextall.

Oh I'm definitely not saying that these guys should have somehow predicted a global pandemic and the fallout. Only that I would not have been super keen on my team's GM dumping money all over the place like a smashed piñata while gleefully yelling "don't worry it only goes up!" You know what they say about stuff that seems too good to be true.

As for Granlund... thanks a pantload, Chet. I WAS having a nice afternoon.

 

[TimmyD]

Some scary news - let’s hope this is just puff.

TIOPS has never been right. The fact that they are putting this out makes me very confident that it will be someone else

 

[IcedCapp]

it doesn't matter if Tavares was worth it or not. It was something the Maple Leafs - regardless of who was GM - were going, and HAD to do.

 

[Pens x]

I mean, we could trade all of our assets for players like Nick Foligno, Jake Muzzin and Jack Campbell and to get out of contracts like Mrazek that you signed.

At least Hextall kept a lot of picks and squeezed out players like Petry, Poehling and Ty Smith in our cap dumps and trades.

Low key Hextall defender. Sleepy screwed up the roster so badly they he couldn’t play Smith due to cap issues. We know nothing more about him now than we did last year.

 

[SEALBound]

San Jose was offering 12.5M AAV for Tavares.There's a lot of bad GMs out there.
I'd trust some Redditors or HFers as GM over some current GMs, easily. Hell, I would trust myself over some of these guys, and I think rather lowly of myself.

It's shocking how these guys ascend so high. Like how does Chiarelli still even get interviews?

Same way coaches get rehired even though they lost a lot with other teams. Same way CEOs get rehired to run other companies after faltering with another. Just because he was bad, doesn't mean that he doesn't know the game, the role, the process, etc. Even though results may be mixed, the tribal knowledge and relationships are still there. It counts for something. Even if it's Chiarelli.

Disclaimer: I think he is a bad GM and I 10,000% want him NO WHERE NEAR this team in ANY capacity.

i'm hearing that, if Dubas isn't the choice, FSG is bringing back Ray Shero to finish off the core

God, I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

Please no...please, please, PLEASE no.

 

[Turin]

i'm hearing that, if Dubas isn't the choice, FSG is bringing back Ray Shero to finish off the core

Ray Shero President
Dan MacKinnon GM
Jason Boterill Co-GM

You can’t stop us now Morehouse

 

[Pens x]

Give me Dubas over Mackinnon, Botts, Bergevin, Chayka

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

i'm hearing that, if Dubas isn't the choice, FSG is bringing back Ray Shero to finish off the core

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Tavares was a high pedigree player scoring ~35-40 goals a season at a point a game. His skating always limited his ultimate upside relative to other 1OAs; he did not have the wheels.

But he was the big fish in his free agency and he was going to get paid by whoever got him. Maybe Dubas could have gotten $1-$1.5M lower AAV but I don't blame him for signing Tavares. That isn't the issue anyway.

But it kinda is the issue. It's all about opportunity cost. That extra $1-3M prevents you from sweetening an offer to a better Dman or goalie that you wanted in FA/trade.

We see this all the time on this board. You get enough of those "well what's an extra $500k-1.5M extra on the expected value?". Uh it literally prevents us from theoretically having a better player down the line. There is only so much pie available.