Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[Gurglesons]

I'm oddly optimistic, you really can't get worse than GMRH and his keep the band together at all costs approach. And you can't get any worse than the outcome either. Just barely missing the playoffs is hockey purgatory.

We're just lucky this year's draft is deep through the middle of the first round and our pick should have a lot of value.

I mean, we could trade all of our assets for players like Nick Foligno, Jake Muzzin and Jack Campbell and to get out of contracts like Mrazek that you signed.

At least Hextall kept a lot of picks and squeezed out players like Petry, Poehling and Ty Smith in our cap dumps and trades.

 

[SomeDude]

I mean, you could trade all of your assets for players like Nick Foligno, Jake Muzzin and Jack Campbell and to get out of contracts like Mrazek that you signed.

Don't forget offering JT Miller $11 million per year because he had Pens sheet when he was a kid.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Rather have Cooley.

Let's get greedy and have both fall into the Penguins' laps.

Matthews signs as UFA. Cooley refuses to go to Arizona, becomes a free agent, and signs with his hometown team.

 

[Gurglesons]

Don't forget offering JT Miller $11 million per year because he had Pens sheet when he was a kid.

Hard to fault the Tavares signing tbh.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Cooley or Keller would be massive coups. In some ways moreso than any parts of the Toronto core. Though I'd happily rehome any of Marner/Matthews/Nylander.

It's all fantasy, though. The Penguins don't do bold. And I imagine if those guys have any say Pittsburgh isn't high on their lists.

 

[SomeDude]

Hard to fault the Tavares signing tbh.

Not really, he was a luxury based on how the team was already built. That cap space would have been way more useful used on D or G (if he could actually find a goalie worth paying, which he never did...including Samsonov after his playoff performance)

 

[Gurglesons]

Not really, he was a luxury based on how the team was already built. That cap space would have been way more useful used on D or G (if he could actually find a goalie worth paying, which he never did...including Samsonov after his playoff performance)

If you can sign a player like Tavares in UFA you do it and figure it out from there.

Huge rarity. Look at Vegas with Piets.

The large issue was the world ending after that signing and the fact they moved Kadri because he did what they paid him to do.

 

[SomeDude]

If you can sign a player like Tavares in UFA you do it and figure it out from there.

or you do it, never figure it out, and never win anything.

 

[Gurglesons]

or you do it, never figure it out, and never win anything.

The issue they never figured out was D and goaltending like you pointed out. It wasn’t Tavares.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean, JR's first year was not good. Remember not being able to ice a full roster at the end of the year and almost missing the playoffs because he screwed the Cap up so bad? It mainly stemmed from the Neal/Horny trade where JR insisted on Spalding being included even though Botterill told him he wouldn't fit in their cap structure and he should take a pick instead.

Yeah, fair. My timeline was off. But there was like an 18-month stretch where Kessel fell into his lap (and Kessel had a massive chip on his shoulder, so they got Kessel in the very small window where he was perfect), he took chances on guys like Daley (though it was a pretty no-brainer move when Scuderi was going the other way), Schultz who almost played his way out of the league in Edmonton, trading for a pretty meh Hagelin, a Neal-Hornqvist trade lots of people shit their pants over, etc.

In some ways, it kind of doomed the rest of his tenure imo because he thought of himself as King Midas in that everything he did would end up being a stellar move so when his luck ran out, it turned out he was just randomly doing dumb shit and for a fortuitous stretch, everything worked perfectly.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, fair. My timeline was off. But there was like an 18-month stretch where Kessel fell into his lap (and Kessel had a massive chip on his shoulder, so they got Kessel in the very small window where he was perfect), he took chances on guys like Daley (though it was a pretty no-brainer move when Scuderi was going the other way), Schultz who almost played his way out of the league in Edmonton, trading for a pretty meh Hagelin, a Neal-Hornqvist trade lots of people shit their pants over, etc.

In some ways, it kind of doomed the rest of his tenure imo because he thought of himself as King Midas in that everything he did would end up being a stellar move so when his luck ran out, it turned out he was just randomly doing dumb shit and for a fortuitous stretch, everything worked perfectly.

I mean dude has thought he was King Midas since his Hartford days.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, fair. My timeline was off. But there was like an 18-month stretch where Kessel fell into his lap (and Kessel had a massive chip on his shoulder, so they got Kessel in the very small window where he was perfect), he took chances on guys like Daley (though it was a pretty no-brainer move when Scuderi was going the other way), Schultz who almost played his way out of the league in Edmonton, trading for a pretty meh Hagelin, a Neal-Hornqvist trade lots of people shit their pants over, etc.

In some ways, it kind of doomed the rest of his tenure imo because he thought of himself as King Midas in that everything he did would end up being a stellar move so when his luck ran out, it turned out he was just randomly doing dumb shit and for a fortuitous stretch, everything worked perfectly.

Neal was such a turd.

But man would I kill for a (circa 2011) James Neal in this top six rn.

It feels like I'm watching cavemen struggling to discover and comprehend fire when I watch the majority of this team try to finish their chances. Herculean task.

 

[LiffLaff]

The issue they never figured out was D and goaltending like you pointed out. It wasn’t Tavares.

Kind of hard to fill out a roster when you have four players on offence making a combined 40mil

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Neal was such a turd.

But man would I kill for a (circa 2011) James Neal in this top six rn.

It feels like I'm watching cavemen struggling to discover and comprehend fire when I watch the majority of this team try to finish their chances. Herculean task.

Yeah. Neal was the original McCann. Dude had a ton of sparkly stats in the regular season and was a dud in the playoffs every single time. (Not as much of a dud as McCann, but you get the gist)

But at this point, I'll take any kind of specialist. A hitter, a sniper, etc.

 

[Lust for Life]

I have to agree with Mr Gurgle and his sons. I can't fault TOR for going out and signing Tavares. You deal with the fallout later (which they are now). I imagine anywhere but TOR and that move puts you over the top. TOR however is TOR

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah. Neal was the original McCann. Dude had a ton of sparkly stats in the regular season and was a dud in the playoffs every single time. (Not as much of a dud as McCann, but you get the gist)

Something to be said about having a guy or two that can score easy goals, though. Him and Kessel had that. Kessel actually delivered, of course.

People can go round and round about it all they want but this team has been missing that a while. And it's a big reason I think the top six is super bleh. And will likely continue to be or worse.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kind of hard to fill out a roster when you have four players on offence making a combined 40mil

Not really. It was hard to fill out the roster because he kept acquiring defensemen making 4+ mil like Ceci, Muzzin, Brodie, etc.

It was Shero in PIT 2.0. Focusing on bringing in depth D to play big roles and failing miserably.

 

[Malkinstheman]

If Dubas comes here, I actually hope he tries the Toronto strategy. Pens desperately need that third star behind Sid/Geno to fill the Kessel role imo.

 

[SomeDude]

The issue they never figured out was D and goaltending like you pointed out. It wasn’t Tavares.

I think most GM's would take the gift of signing Tavares and then trade one of their other good offensive players to fill a hole somewhere else. Dubas just collected big names more than anything and expected them to win.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Tavares is a PPG player making like $3 or 4 million more than he should. The deal sucks shit, and I think it f***s up their options. Way more of a problem than Matthews or Marner's deals imo, by orders of magnitude. But back when it was signed it was a rookie GM who probably felt pressured into landing the huge FA fish who was a local boy, grew up loving the team (ownership loves the PR for $ome odd rea$on) etc. Whether Dubas comes here or not, I'm assuming he's learned a whole lot since then, and he's learned a lot about how things went down in his time with Toronto.

 

[Turin]

Tavares is a PPG player making like $3 or 4 million more than he should. The deal sucks shit, and I think it f***s up their options. Way more of a problem than Matthews or Marner's deals imo, by orders of magnitude. But back when it was signed it was a rookie GM who probably felt pressured into landing the huge FA fish who was a local boy, grew up loving the team (ownership loves the PR for $ome odd rea$on) etc. Whether Dubas comes here or not, I'm assuming he's learned a whole lot since then, and he's learned a lot about how things went down in his time with Toronto.

That contract made a lot of sense in 2018. The cap was supposed to be over 90 mil by now.

 

[Turin]

Nick Ritchie
Nick Robertson
Matt Murray
Kyle Clifford
Jared McCann
Conor Timmons
Jack Campbell
Wayne Simmonds
Jake Muzzin
Rasmus Sandin
Joe Thornton
Michael Bunting

So, the main thing that’s concerning is that Dubas NHL strategy is largely just acquire players who played for his OHL team. All those guys played for the Greyhounds.

And what’s even worse, is that JEFF CARTER also played for them.

 

[ChaosAgent]

As a GM, you get fired for not bringing in a John Tavares around the time Dubas signed him.

The Leafs biggest problem is the mystique and expectations that surround them. Crazy pressure in a salary cap league where you can't spend like the Yankees or Real Madrid.

 

[Turin]

As a GM, you get fired for not bringing in a John Tavares around the time Dubas signed him.

The Leafs biggest problem is the mystique and expectations that surround them. Crazy pressure in a salary cap league where you can't spend like the Yankees or Real Madrid.

I think they probably should have won the Cup in 2021. That loss to Montreal was brutal. Marner is the only superstar I’ve ever seen play noticeably nervous.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just hope this ends up being a positive summer for the organization when we all look back in like 10 years. This is a pretty hugely important off-season.

That contract made a lot of sense in 2018. The cap was supposed to be over 90 mil by now.

Eh, disagree. I don't thinking signing a guy who's probably never gonna crack 90pts in his career to north of $11 million ever made sense, especially 5 years ago. But it's whatever.