Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

It's going to be funny when Dubas turns down the Pens and then FSG goes back to their other choice and they turn it down for something else and we end up with the GM equivalent of Mike Johnston as like our 4th option because nobody else wants the job.

Don’t think we have to worry about that. Sounds like this will all be wrapped up shortly. Only one other team is looking for a GM and from the sounds of it, they’re not interested in any of the candidates we had in the second round of interviews.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Tulsky isn’t leaving Carolina to be less than a GM. Either you give him the GM job or he isn’t coming… and why would Dubas agree to be an assistant GM or head of hockey operation? He wants a GM job where he gets full power.

A Tulsky/Dubas combo sounds impossible when you look at what both dudes had/have and what they’re looking for.

I figured they'd give Dubas POHO and let Tulsky be the GM? Or am I completely off base?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

FWIW, I still prefer Tulsky to every name linked to the team, but Dubas is pretty easily a second option to me. No real desire to land MacKinnon. I have issues with Darche. I absolutely do not want Bergevin or Chiarelli for very obvious reasons.

GMs are weird. People dunked on Zito for years and now people are heaping praise on the guy because of the Tkachuk deal. Nobody knows how Dubas (or Tulsky for that matter) would do here. I think we tend to rip on GMs, but outside of absolute dipshits like JR and Hextall, luck goes a long way toward making guys look good or bad.

 

[SomeDude]

I figured they'd give Dubas POHO and let Tulsky be the GM? Or am I completely off base?

Dubas sounds like he only wants a job where nobody can question or overule him. We’re probably going to be the idiots to give him that and then take 8 years to realize he’s not as smart as he and everyone else thinks he is.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I figured they'd give Dubas POHO and let Tulsky be the GM? Or am I completely off base?

Dubas seems to want full autonomy. Seems like the problem in Toronto was that Shanahan had the power to veto moves and Dubas didnt want that middle man between him and the MLSE board.

 

[LiffLaff]

Lol ya that is the Leafs downfall.

Not
Matthews having 2pts vs FL in 5 games
Marner having 3pts vs FL in 5 games

You mean the guys Dubas handed the keys to the castle to?

 

[Kristopher Letang]

I figured they'd give Dubas POHO and let Tulsky be the GM? Or am I completely off base?

From what we heard about Dubas after he got fired, it sounds like he still wants to be a GM.

 

[K Fleur]

See I thought the Leafs got bounced all the time because they’re poorly built.

Turns out it was instagram all along.

 

[LiffLaff]

See I thought the Leafs got bounced all the time because they’re poorly built.

Turns out it was instagram all along.

You understand that was meant as an exaggerated statement to exemplafy that giving your players the key to the castle might not be the best way to build a team right? Or to ask like Andy Dufresne, how can you be so obtuse?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Dubas seems to want full autonomy. Seems like the problem in Toronto was that Shanahan had the power to veto moves and Dubas didnt want that middle man between him and the MLSE board.

Didn't Dubas originally work for Lou L and then Shanny came onboard after a couple years?

What is the likelihood of the following to be true?
1. Dubas hated working for/with Shanny
2. Shanny offered Dubas a contract
3. Dubas figured that if he continued to work for Shanny that he should be compensated at an insane figure
4. Instead of rejecting Shanny's offer, he put forth a counter that he knew they'd reject so he could be a FA immediately

I believe #2 has already been confirmed as true. I think the other scenarios aren't so far-fetched. So maybe it was less about having full autonomy vs reporting to someone he actually got along with?

Again, all kinds of speculation on my end...

 

[Malkinstheman]

Didn't Dubas originally work for Lou L and then Shanny came onboard after a couple years?

What is the likelihood of the following to be true?
1. Dubas hated working for/with Shanny
2. Shanny offered Dubas a contract
3. Dubas figured that if he continued to work for Shanny that he should be compensated at an insane figure
4. Instead of rejecting Shanny's offer, he put forth a counter that he knew they'd reject so he could be a FA immediately

I believe #2 has already been confirmed as true. I think the other scenarios aren't so far-fetched. So maybe it was less about having full autonomy vs reporting to someone he actually got along with?

Again, all kinds of speculation on my end...

I believe Shanahan was hired in 2013 and then he brought in Lou and Dubas after that. Yeah that sounds about right. Friedman mentioned that Dubas wanted a "streamlined process". Not necessarily cutting Shanny out but making decisions quicker and more efficient. The leafs are a total mess right now. There seems to be pro-Dubas and against Dubas factions so the info being released is all over the place lol

 

[OnMyOwn]

This place is going to continue to be awful reading, regardless of who the pens hire. I’m like an old man around here, anymore, yearning for the old days of HF.

It’s just non-stop complaining. And if we hire an ex-leaf exec, the amount of people outside of pens fans that will flood that thread will be quite the sight.

Just let it unfold and see what happens.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I believe Shanahan was hired in 2013 and then he brought in Lou and Dubas after that. Yeah that sounds about right. Friedman mentioned that Dubas wanted a "streamlined process". Not necessarily cutting Shanny out but making decisions quicker and more efficient. The leafs are a total mess right now. There seems to be pro-Dubas and against Dubas factions so the info being released is all over the place lol

From a far far away outsider, I think Dubas had a good relationship with Lou L but he and Shanny butted heads.
So there's part of me that wonders who pushed for some of these signings. I'm not going to bat for Dubas, but considering the politics of anything involving the Maple Leafs it makes you question who really was pulling the strings.

And maybe that's the crux of it: Dubas wanted out of the red tape and political BS that surrounds that franchise and wanted somewhere more "normal"?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This place is going to continue to be awful reading, regardless of who the pens hire. I’m like an old man around here, anymore, yearning for the old days of HF.

It’s just non-stop complaining. And if we hire an ex-leaf exec, the amount of people outside of pens fans that will flood that thread will be quite the sight.

Just let it unfold and see what happens.

In the old days we complained about disappointment and the uncomfortableness of the end of an era.

Today we complain about disappointment and the uncomfortableness of the end of an era.

I don't see much difference.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

JR came in and hit homerun after homerun in what I will always say was sheer, absurd, dumb luck. But those first 18 months or so were as good a run as GM has ever had for this team, maybe league-wide. His moves and decisions from the 2nd Cup onward were so absolutely stupid, random and rudderless (his baseline throughout his career) that I'm convinced he just lucked out, simple as that.

I think luck plays a large part in GMing. Outside of objective idiots like JR, Hextall, Chiarelli, and Milbury just doing stupid shit all the time, lots of moves around the league are just "well this guy's a solid player and seems to fit, but it's up to luck whether he does or not". Comes down to unknowable shit like a player's comfort level, how they gel with their linemates (Sid + Hornqvist were made to be linemates but couldn't stand each other, etc), coaching, etc.

If it's Tulsky, I hope he's as good as people think he's gonna be. If it's Dubas, I hope he learned a ton from his time in Toronto. If it's anyone else--bummer, but we'll see.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not stoked if it’s Dubas. But at least he’ll have the fire to prove everyone wrong.

From a far far away outsider, I think Dubas had a good relationship with Lou L but he and Shanny butted heads.
So there's part of me that wonders who pushed for some of these signings. I'm not going to bat for Dubas, but considering the politics of anything involving the Maple Leafs it makes you question who really was pulling the strings.

And maybe that's the crux of it: Dubas wanted out of the red tape and political BS that surrounds that franchise and wanted somewhere more "normal"?

Dubas’ first three moves aside from signing the core were trading Zaitsev, Marleau, and Martin. All contracts signed by Lou.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What you guys seem to be saying here is that I'm not gonna get my get my Chia/Bergevin/McGuire Triumvirate of Terror am I?

Also to be serious a minute... I'm not really sold hard on Dubas but Shanahan seems like kind of a turd in the punchbowl. And I mean... as a former Red Wing that tracks. Though more fitting were he Kris Draper if I'm to use that particular metaphor, I suppose.

 

[OnMyOwn]

In the old days we complained about disappointment and the uncomfortableness of the end of an era.

Today we complain about disappointment and the uncomfortableness of the end of an era.

I don't see much difference.

Outside of the Arena and relocation talk, there was a lot of good discussion. I’m not even saying go back 18 years haha, just that these past 2-4 years have been brutal.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

This place is going to continue to be awful reading, regardless of who the pens hire. I’m like an old man around here, anymore, yearning for the old days of HF.

It’s just non-stop complaining. And if we hire an ex-leaf exec, the amount of people outside of pens fans that will flood that thread will be quite the sight.

Just let it unfold and see what happens.

I'm oddly optimistic, you really can't get worse than GMRH and his keep the band together at all costs approach. And you can't get any worse than the outcome either. Just barely missing the playoffs is hockey purgatory.

We're just lucky this year's draft is deep through the middle of the first round and our pick should have a lot of value.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Outside of the Arena and relocation talk, there was a lot of good discussion. I’m not even saying go back 18 years haha, just that these past 2-4 years have been brutal.

Maybe. People have sure gotten uh... louder... over the years.

But I think there is always gonna be that percentage of any community who loudly stomps around being outraged at everything. Outrage sells. Clearly.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Not stoked if it’s Dubas. But at least he’ll have the fire to prove everyone wrong.



Dubas’ first three moves aside from signing the core were trading Zaitsev, Marleau, and Martin. All contracts signed by Lou.

That’s my appeal with Dubas. He’ll have so much hate following him, same as Kessel. I’m intrigued by what happens in that scenario.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It's all coming together...

Pens hire Dubas.
Cap finally goes up next summer.
Auston Matthews opts to explore open market rather than re-sign with Toronto.
Dubas signs Matthews to a long-term contract.
Matthews learns how to win from Sid, Geno and Letang.
Pens win one last Cup.
Matthews becomes superstar centerpiece of the Pens as Sid, Geno, Letang wrap their careers and retire.
Profit.

 

[SomeDude]

JR came in and hit homerun after homerun in what I will always say was sheer, absurd, dumb luck. But those first 18 months or so were as good a run as GM has ever had for this team, maybe league-wide. His moves and decisions from the 2nd Cup onward were so absolutely stupid, random and rudderless (his baseline throughout his career) that I'm convinced he just lucked out, simple as that.

I mean, JR's first year was not good. Remember not being able to ice a full roster at the end of the year and almost missing the playoffs because he screwed the Cap up so bad? It mainly stemmed from the Neal/Horny trade where JR insisted on Spalding being included even though Botterill told him he wouldn't fit in their cap structure and he should take a pick instead.

Plus the whole Mike Johnston debacle after 2 or 3 other coaches turned the Pens down (including the mighty Willie Desjardins). After that, he had a 12 month span where he could do no wrong, but that first year was not looking good.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's all coming together...

Pens hire Dubas.
Cap finally goes up next summer.
Auston Matthews opts to explore open market rather than re-sign with Toronto.
Dubas signs Matthews to a long-term contract.
Matthews learns how to win from Sid, Geno and Letang.
Pens win one last Cup.
Matthews becomes superstar centerpiece of the Pens as Sid, Geno, Letang wrap their careers and retire.
Profit.

Rather have Cooley.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean, JR's first year was not good. Remember not being able to ice a full roster at the end of the year and almost missing the playoffs because he screwed the Cap up so bad? It mainly stemmed from the Neal/Horny trade where JR insisted on Spalding being included even though Botterill told him he wouldn't fit in their cap structure and he should take a pick instead.

I think perhaps with the luxury of hindsight we can now MOSTLY say that JR's early wet spaghettis at the wall stuck. Not so much after that. He was who he always was.