Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[Turin]

Zero chance it’s Dubas with him participating in the clean out day. Which I’m fine with.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I think the 1st half of next season will be a big part of whether Sullivan finishes the season as the coach here.

Would be extremely surprised if it happened right away but if this team falters the 1st half of the year I would expect him to be let go.

That would be the logical thing to do. We shall see.

 

[Ulf5]

Glancing at the leafs cap next seaon, looks like Dubas has quite a mess to cleanup if he stays. Only 15 signed with $7 million in space.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, the Leafs are in deep shit. It's only gonna get worse, too.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Conventional wisdom is that GM's choose the 1st round pick, scouts choose the rest.

So Chayka chose Soderstrom ahead of Boldy in 2019, and took Barret Hayton 5th overall in 2018 when it was a big reach. Hayton was ranked as a late 1st. Arizona could have had Quinn Hughes and Matthew Boldy instead of Soderstrom and Hayton.

He picked 5 1st rounders as a GM and you're only gonna mention the negative two that suit your argument? How about we do a proper assessment here, instead of worrying about who's right?
Keller? Chychrun? POJ at 23 too is completely fine too. Probably gonna end up a middle pairing guy sooner rather than later.
If you're drafting 20th and beyond you have a ~20% chance of him becoming an established top 6 Forward, top 4D or starter. So POJ is trending towards being a hit too.

3/5. 60%. Keller is a stud putting up huge points despite over 50% D-zone starts last year on a bad team. Chychrun is a 1st pairing 2-way D that everyone wants.
That is not "awful drafting". That's above average. Even Hayton just had a good season and is 22. Not a finished project. Might get something good out of him yet.
The best the Pens have gotten out of their last 9 1sts is Olli Maatta.

How much do you know about Chayka's trade and signing history? Did you look it up before posting? People on this board who fact check before talking is rare in my experience.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Zero chance it’s Dubas with him participating in the clean out day. Which I’m fine with.

Gallant participated in the Rangers clean out day. Though I wonder if it’s different with a coach vs GM participating.

 

[Turin]

Gallant participated in the Rangers clean out day. Though I wonder if it’s different with a coach vs GM participating.

Interesting. I figured they would make their call quicker but maybe I’m wrong.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Glancing at the leafs cap next seaon, looks like Dubas has quite a mess to cleanup if he stays. Only 15 signed with $7 million in space.

Depends if Muzzin's returning. Was a cervical spine injury.
If he's out that 7.4M becomes 13M through LTIR relief. At that point they'd need to sign 7F, 1D and 1G...or 6F, 2D, 1G.
But yeah even then there's a few important positions to fill still, like a top 4D, 3C and starter. They may have to lean on Woll next year.
I think Woll's gonna be fine, but if he's not their team can still absorb it and make the playoffs anyway.

 

[Freeptop]

Besides the final buzzer what is your favourite memory from the 2009 playoff run?

That run was pretty epic.
Talbot shushing the crown in Philadelphia.
Fleury stoning Ovechkin.
Malkin's hat trick against the Hurricanes.

But I'll toss this one out there: Staal's shorthanded goal in game 4 of the Final. Up to that point, the games had been going eerily similar to the previous year. After Staal scored that goal, the Pens took over that game and it was the sign that things really would be different that year.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The stars aligned for that 2009 Cup. The ECF was a weak Canes team and Geno feasted after Sid carried against the Caps. Then, the Pens get a Wings team that had Datsyuk on one ankle and Lidstrom with a ruptured sack because Sharp speared the f*** out of his cash and prizes the series beforehand.

I think that run was easily my favorite. The 2016 run was great because they just blew through everybody and it felt like an inevitability. The 2017 run was great because it was the first back-to-back in like 20 years and without Letang, it felt like a team just battling their asses off with no gas in the tank. But that 2009 Cup was unreal.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

That run was pretty epic.
Talbot shushing the crown in Philadelphia.
Fleury stoning Ovechkin.
Malkin's hat trick against the Hurricanes.

But I'll toss this one out there: Staal's shorthanded goal in game 4 of the Final. Up to that point, the games had been going eerily similar to the previous year. After Staal scored that goal, the Pens took over that game and it was the sign that things really would be different that year.

Hossa's face after he betrayed us and lost again.

 

[Gurglesons]

The stars aligned for that 2009 Cup. The ECF was a weak Canes team and Geno feasted after Sid carried against the Caps. Then, the Pens get a Wings team that had Datsyuk on one ankle and Lidstrom with a ruptured sack because Sharp speared the f*** out of his cash and prizes the series beforehand.

I think that run was easily my favorite. The 2016 run was great because they just blew through everybody and it felt like an inevitability. The 2017 run was great because it was the first back-to-back in like 20 years and without Letang, it felt like a team just battling their asses off with no gas in the tank. But that 2009 Cup was unreal.

I think the best part of the 09 cup run was the 08 cup run and just the sweet relief of beating the Wings.

 

[DrDangles]

Glancing at the leafs cap next seaon, looks like Dubas has quite a mess to cleanup if he stays. Only 15 signed with $7 million in space.

Dubas has the benefit of veteran Ontario boys signing for cheap just to play for the hometown team.

I'd bet good money on ROR re-signing on a sweetheart deal for example.

 

[Ulf5]

Yeah, the Leafs are in deep shit. It's only gonna get worse, too.

People saying trade Matthews, trade Nylander. Do you do the unthinkable and trade hometown hero and captain Tavares? He is 32. Will be hard to replace but all the others are mid 20s.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

People saying trade Matthews, trade Nylander. Do you do the unthinkable and trade hometown hero and captain Tavares? He is 32. Will be hard to replace but all the others are mid 20s.

Tavares is the guy who *should* be traded, but good luck finding a team to take a soon to be 33 year old making $11 million to be a PPG player.

I think they'll trade Nylander. His cap hit is much more easily absorbed and he's still a damn good player who is only 26.

I dunno. That team's f***ed. Good luck to whoever the GM is, Dubas or otherwise.

 

[cygnus47]

Tavares is the guy who *should* be traded, but good luck finding a team to take a soon to be 33 year old making $11 million to be a PPG player.

I think they'll trade Nylander. His cap hit is much more easily absorbed and he's still a damn good player who is only 26.

I dunno. That team's f***ed. Good luck to whoever the GM is, Dubas or otherwise.

Pens should consider Tavares if they’re offering him at close to 50%. Actually useful at the moment if overpaid, could let Malkin play more wing, we don’t care if we only get 2 or 3 ok years and then he’s way overpaid cause we’ll suck anyway. Get guentzel away from the net in the PP. We don’t play a speed game which works and he can settle into an overpaid 3rd line vet role after a year or two.

From everything that’s been said over the years Marner the most likely to be traded even though he might be the best of the lot. They’ll get full value for him, it will completely change their room and they’ll get 11M off the books. Nylander would be next but they won’t get as much for him and he’s got a better cap hit. They want to keep Mathews no matter what and Tavares isn’t worth much.

 

[molon labe]

Pens should consider Tavares if they’re offering him at close to 50%. Actually useful at the moment if overpaid, could let Malkin play more wing, we don’t care if we only get 2 or 3 ok years and then he’s way overpaid cause we’ll suck anyway. Get guentzel away from the net in the PP. We don’t play a speed game which works and he can settle into an overpaid 3rd line vet role after a year or two.

From everything that’s been said over the years Marner the most likely to be traded even though he might be the best of the lot. They’ll get full value for him, it will completely change their room and they’ll get 11M off the books. Nylander would be next but they won’t get as much for him and he’s got a better cap hit. They want to keep Mathews no matter what and Tavares isn’t worth much.

We're getting into other thread territory here - but with Dubas, perhaps the connection is there and a deal could be worked out. I really don't see anyone offering a better package than Guentzel+

For Matthews - I could see Colorado pushing chips in (rightfully so). MacK/Matthews 1/2 punch becomes the best in the league. Denver a young town and Matthews would be foolish to sign elsewhere.

With regard to Tavares. I would certainly take him. ANY play driver at this point is something we should take a flyer on. The thing is - as much as Leafs fans look at Tavares...he's got an NMC so trading him is literally all about cap space. Unless he comes out and gives 5 teams - he's got all the leverage like Kessel did so the return will be mediocre. Marner/Matthews are free game right now for the next 5 weeks. That's why I expect Dubas to make a decision within the next 3 days. Toronto has no time to lose.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

It blows my mind that anyone seriously thinks there is anything other than a zero percent chance that Sullivan is fired.

I think the 1st half of next season will be a big part of whether Sullivan finishes the season as the coach here.

Would be extremely surprised if it happened right away but if this team falters the 1st half of the year I would expect him to be let go.

I agree with both of you here. Sully leash was shortened after they fired all his assistants. His job was hanging by a thread, and yet he still survived :\.

What I want, and is realistic, is the new GM sits with Sully, and explains to him the type of team they can and will build. This would be based on salary cap, what we have in our cupboard in the minors (not much), what age players we can get/trade-for in the UFA category (all age 28+: Zucker/Garland/Bertuzzi/etc), and lastly what RFA we could trade for (any younger players we want). RFA trades would clearly require us giving up draft pics left and right.

Basically a CLEAR STRATEGY on what we are DOING in terms of player personnel!!

Then ask Sully to propose a system (or adjust his system) to suite that build. Based on the results of that build, in the 1st 1/4 of the season, you make a decision to replace him.

People saying trade Matthews, trade Nylander. Do you do the unthinkable and trade hometown hero and captain Tavares? He is 32. Will be hard to replace but all the others are mid 20s.

They should clearly trade Tavares before anybody else. I was saying on the mainboard, they should talk to Vancouver about a Tavares -> JT Miller swap (in some form).

 

[Malkinstheman]

People saying trade Matthews, trade Nylander. Do you do the unthinkable and trade hometown hero and captain Tavares? He is 32. Will be hard to replace but all the others are mid 20s.

The problem is that Tavares has a full NMC while the others don't have any trade protection until July 1st. Tavares has to okay a trade and then they'll have to take back a bunch of cap and will get pennies on the dollar for Tavares.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

People saying trade Matthews, trade Nylander. Do you do the unthinkable and trade hometown hero and captain Tavares? He is 32. Will be hard to replace but all the others are mid 20s.

JT is essentially impossible to move. He has a 100% NMC. He is in his home town. Gets to see his family anytime he wants when he isn’t on the road. It’s his boyhood team. And he also has a massive cap hit at 11M. Any team he would even have a marginal want to go to can’t fit his cap hit. And most teams that could he wouldn’t want to waive to go too.

And honestly. We can’t read his mind. But I put it like this in another thread. If I got to make that kind of salary for my childhood team in my home town and I had a NMC. I don’t care if they were burning a likeness of me in front of the arena before every home game. If management came to me asking me to waive my NMC I’d laugh at them and tell them to go pound sand.

 

[NastyNick]

Now that the other meat-gazing, over-achieving, franchise has met its predictable end.. anyone want to sober up and revisit the real problems with this team?

If not, rewatch the last 5 playoff exits.

Changing goalies or coaches.. or swapping garbage third liners for more garbage third liners is like crapping your pants and thinking you can just change your shirt and be fine.

Its time for a rebuild. Keep Crosby. Blow up the rest. This is the only way you will salvage anything from this core that can win a playoff series.

They could have done an effective & quick turnaround last summer - the opportunity was there. But now its gonna be painful.

 

[Andy99]

Now that the other meat-gazing, over-achieving, franchise has met its predictable end.. anyone want to sober up and revisit the real problems with this team?

If not, rewatch the last 5 playoff exits.

Changing goalies or coaches.. or swapping garbage third liners for more garbage third liners is like crapping your pants and thinking you can just change your shirt and be fine.

Its time for a rebuild. Keep Crosby. Blow up the rest. This is the only way you will salvage anything from this core that can win a playoff series.

They could have done an effective & quick turnaround last summer - the opportunity was there. But now its gonna be painful.

Coaches in the conference finals:
Cassidy— first year coach for Knights
Deboer— first year coach for Stars
Hakstol— second year coach for Kraken
Maurice — first year coach for Florida
Brind’Amour— fifth year coach (bucks the tend, hasn’t won anything)

See a pattern? I do…

 

[Josey Wales]

Coaches in the conference finals:
Cassidy— first year coach for Knights
Deboer— first year coach for Stars
Hakstol— second year coach for Kraken
Maurice — first year coach for Florida
Brind’Amour— fifth year coach (bucks the tend, hasn’t won anything)

See a pattern? I do…

& everyone made fun of Fla. hiring Maurice & Hakstol too. so don't make it like they were great hires

 

[Rakell67]

That run was pretty epic.

Talbot shushing the crown in Philadelphia.
Fleury stoning Ovechkin.
Malkin's hat trick against the Hurricanes.

But I'll toss this one out there: Staal's shorthanded goal in game 4 of the Final. Up to that point, the games had been going eerily similar to the previous year. After Staal scored that goal, the Pens took over that game and it was the sign that things really would be different that year.

Was it 09 when Kunitz steamrolled Flyers' Timmonen?

 

[Andy99]

& everyone made fun of Fla. hiring Maurice & Hakstol too. so don't make it like they were great hires

point is, change is necessary…teams get a beat on you when you play the same way year and year…also notice how those teams also changed goalies…who’s playing now wasn’t the goalie who got them into the playoffs, same deal…teams figure out your goalie weaknesses fast…a big reason we need to change out our coach and goalie