Quinn Hughes is having a Hart caliber season

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

I totally agree. All 1D get the most O zone starts. The difference with Quinn is:

1. No PK
2. D Zone starts only with Miller or Petey. They purposefully avoided the 3rd-4th lines in their own zone with Quinn.
3. Increased O Zone starts year after year with 3rd-4h liners since 21-22 with D Zone starts decreasing there.

He is a hybrid better version of Bouchard IMO. Highly skilled, but to claim amazing defense is simply a joke now.

Evan Bouchard in 2024 playoffs: 32 points +14.

Cale Makar in 2022 playoffs: 29 points +7.

So in a way I agree that Hughes is a better version of Bouchard. In the sense that they both blow Makar out of the water.

 

[Regal]

I totally agree. All 1D get the most O zone starts. The difference with Quinn is:

1. No PK
2. D Zone starts only with Miller or Petey. They purposefully avoided the 3rd-4th lines in their own zone with Quinn.
3. Increased O Zone starts year after year with 3rd-4h liners since 21-22 with D Zone starts decreasing there.

He is a hybrid better version of Bouchard IMO. Highly skilled, but to claim amazing defense is simply a joke now.

2 isn’t true. I’ve seen you claim this before and you’re wrongfully applying the data. His defensive zone starts away from them have gone up in recent years from his previous numbers, but this isn’t the same thing. He still starts more in the defensive zone without them than he does with them. It should also be noted that Garland plays a large portion of his minutes away from Pettersson and Miller and he’s been the best possession forward on the team the past two years and also receives high zone starts.

Also, I don’t think anyone has claimed Hughes is amazing defensively. They’ve said he’s pretty good, which he is. His defensive numbers are quite strong even accounting for his easier minutes. And playing easier minutes than others overall doesn’t mean he doesn’t also play hard minutes. He just plays fewer of them. His numbers in those situations are still good when he plays them.

Again, you’re taking something factual and trying to build it into something it’s not and then claiming you’re right because it was based on something factual initially. We can talk about the fact that Hughes doesn’t play the PK and plays in more favourable situations and that this should be accounted for when talking about how good his relative numbers are. But you’re trying to present him as if he’s a terrible defensive player who is out in a sheltered situation because he can’t be trusted and that’s just not supported by anything

 

[Coffee]

@Timeless Winter hey Timeless I’m sorry I laughed at your post but in my eyes that was a very foolish take! Canucks GM purposely went out and paid PK specialists to PK so they can have Hughes on the ice more 5on5. And that’s the truth!

I love Werenski and you could see my posts LAST year saying he’s the most underrated defender

 

[Grifter3511]

This is absolute nonsense. You repeatedly make huge, unsupported logical leaps and try to justify it based on “data”. Playing easier minutes than some other number 1 defensemen doesnt tell us anything other than he plays easier minutes than some other number 1 defensemen. This does not mean someone isn’t playing defense nor that they play the position in a way that is fundamentally different than other defensemen.

"Sacrificing their offensive numbers for the betterment of the team,' hahaha. Like that's something you can actually quantify? It's a fun thing to say, and sure sounds damning when you say it, but for all you (Ben Franklin) know, Hughes' offensive production and insane puck control/game management is doing significantly more to better his team than spending 90 seconds on the pk would.

 

[benfranklin]

2 isn’t true. I’ve seen you claim this before and you’re wrongfully applying the data. His defensive zone starts away from them have gone up in recent years from his previous numbers, but this isn’t the same thing. He still starts more in the defensive zone without them than he does with them. It should also be noted that Garland plays a large portion of his minutes away from Pettersson and Miller and he’s been the best possession forward on the team the past two years and also receives high zone starts.

Also, I don’t think anyone has claimed Hughes is amazing defensively. They’ve said he’s pretty good, which he is. His defensive numbers are quite strong even accounting for his easier minutes. And playing easier minutes than others overall doesn’t mean he doesn’t also play hard minutes. He just plays fewer of them. His numbers in those situations are still good when he plays them.

Again, you’re taking something factual and trying to build it into something it’s not and then claiming you’re right because it was based on something factual initially. We can talk about the fact that Hughes doesn’t play the PK and plays in more favourable situations and that this should be accounted for when talking about how good his relative numbers are. But you’re trying to present him as if he’s a terrible defensive player who is out in a sheltered situation because he can’t be trusted and that’s just not supported by anything

A. That is all I am claiming and his offensive numbers skyrocketed when this changed. Coincidentally his competition for the Norris went in the opposite direction.

B. Someone here posted the Jfresh card which opened the flood gates for ripping his actual defense. It was easy to point out that the Canucks use him more offensively against other teams 3rd-4th lines whenever possible for the offensive production, giving the tough McDavid type matchups to the other pairings. Again, strategic deployment which Im not hating on, but when Fox/Makar/whoever consistently get the McDavid matchups, its an easy target.

C. My opinion is that he is probably an average defender in his own end, but Van chooses to use him offensively as much as possible. Pure strategy. You toss Makar on his team and magically maybe hes taken away from PP1, given PK time and more defensive matchups and he does fine. Who knows. I get bitter when he receives a Norris for his offense only and its an easy argument to target his competition playing more defense than he does, where they likely would surpass his offensive numbers given the same deployment.

"Sheltered" obviously is term I am using to draw in replies. In no stretch of the imagination do I think he is a bad player, but as of today I see him more like Sharks Karlsson than a well round insert whoevers name in.

The second he puts on the USA sweater, I will be his biggest fan.

 

[Raistlin]

Large bodied rangy D. What a positive way to describe Desharnais and friends.

You should write for the Canucks.

we had a sea of Granlund of forwards, and we had a sea of Granlund of 3rd and replacement level D in '24.

That Miller to Marcus Pettersson+ trade and subsequent emergence of EP(D) was the franchise altering event of '24-'25.

I noticed that the detractors stopped harping about the misleading charts after you put all three teams all together. In the end, to believe that QH/Hronek was sheltered like a rookie goes against everything that anyone who watched him play everyday knows. Those other Ds are good for PK, made for PK, to shoehorn QH also into there is folly.

 

[coolboarder]

What are you talking about? You don’t want your best D to start in the Dzone because they might get hemmed in and will use up their energy…need to conserve that. At the same time you suggest Hughes is really good in his own end and can steal the puck quickly and get it out quickly. If that’s the case, wouldn’t you want him out there, why would they get hemmed in?

If Hughes is averaging 25 minutes, you might as well use him to enhance the offensive situations and maximum your chance of winning a hockey game if Hughes has ton of energy with the puck rather than his stamina being lower and being force to use lesser skilled D which is a waste of a shift if Hughes is forced to take a breather because he's hemmed in for a whole minute if they lose a faceoff and missed offensive chance in next couple of minutes while Hughes is on the bench. Even if we are scored against and he would have to be tired and needing a breather and the team won't be able to produce quality counterattack to get a goal back in very next minute.