Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[Gurglesons]

You want someone well-versed in analytics because it helps set the tone for the front office. Of course there will be other employees whose sole focus is analytics or player development or contracts, but you want a GM to put their foot down and say, "This is the approach we're going to take to build a hockey team."

My top three are Mathieu Darche, Kyle Dubas and Eric Tlusky. I wouldn't wait on Dubas. I'd figure out what his status is and give him the first round of the playoffs. Do all your other interviews in that period. If he's available after Rd 1, do an interview. If not, move on.

Why do people want Dubas? He’s arguably worse than Hextall at managing assets and player evaluation.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

If you need a computer algorithm to tell you that you shouldn’t trade for Mikael Granlund or give 37 year old Jeff Carter a bulletproof multi-year extension, you should not be running a hockey team.

Sure... but contract length, money amount, etc. can all be looked at.

I think your wrong on Granlund. Remember, he's a incredible miscast player, I mean HBK 2.0, He'll probably get us another 1st when we shop him.

BTW- I don't think Hex used any analytics at all just kinda rolled with it using the force.... nothing he did made sense.

 

[Pens x]

I don't know enough about the GM prospect pool to comment, but if the bar is Sleepy Ron Hextall I don't think we can f*** this up any worse than that.

I’m pretty sure you’d be hard pressed to find someone worse. Although, I didn’t think they could hire someone worse than 2017 JR and they arguably did.

Why do people want Dubas? He’s arguably worse than Hextall at managing assets and player evaluation.

How is Dubas worse at player evaluation than Ron friggin Hextall? Everything that idiot touched turned to **** except Rakell.

 

[Gurglesons]

I’m pretty sure you’d be hard pressed to find someone worse. Although, I didn’t think they could hire someone worse than 2017 JR and they arguably did.


How is Dubas worse at player evaluation than Ron friggin Hextall? Everything that idiot touched turned to **** except Rakell.

1st for Foligno.

Traded LA Moore, Durzi and Grundstrom for a year or so of Muzzin, Jack Campbell and Kyle Clifford.

Lost Marchment for Maglin.

Gave away Connor Brown.

Etc etc

 

[Rudy Russo]

Sully traded him for an autographed Aston-Reese stick.

And Dominik Simon.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Why do people want Dubas? He’s arguably worse than Hextall at managing assets and player evaluation.

He's done a solid job of filling out Toronto's roster with value considering their tight cap constraints due to the contracts of the stars.

He hasn't been perfect. And there's the whole issue of not winning a playoff series. And my preference, as has been stated, is Darche. But Dubas is the kind of GM this team needs, even if he personally has some question marks.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's done a solid job of filling out Toronto's roster with value considering their tight cap constraints due to the contracts of the stars.

He hasn't been perfect. And there's the whole issue of not winning a playoff series. And my preference, as has been stated, is Darche. But Dubas is the kind of GM this team needs, even if he personally has some question marks.

What value? Lol. He’s traded away a ton of young, good talent for nothing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dubas is better than Hextall but he really hasn’t done a great job with the Leafs as GM. He’s way too married to players he had while in juniors, it’s an obvious trend where he targets former Soo players.

He’s a bright hockey mind but he’s really hurt by his loyalties. He bent over backwards and gave the Leafs core whatever they wanted and has a big problem with favoritism. If he was more of a cut throat type of guy, I think he’d be one of the better GMs in hockey. He's way too sentimental.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I would like someone in the vein of Dubas but yeah, not Dubas himself

 

[Gurglesons]

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

This is just painful. Why would we want this guy here?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

What value? Lol. He’s traded away a ton of young, good talent for nothing.

I mean, @Sidney the Kidney laid it out pretty well in an earlier post.

I know it's the fun thing to do on HF is to make fun of Dubas, but honestly he's done a good job in Toronto, both in terms of identifying areas of weakness and addressing them, and identifying "cheap" options to fill out a lineup's depth with limited remaining cap space.

When he first got to Toronto their blueline was their clear area of weakness. He's since added Brodie, Muzzin (hurt now), Giordano, and McCabe. Their defense may not be top 5 in hockey still, but it's been vastly improved from the one he inherited.

He also has been good at finding bargain contracts that actually produce. Bunting is producing like Bryan Rust/Jason Zucker but for around $900k per year. Jarnkrok paced for over 20 goals this year for half the cost we're paying guys to produce that. David Kampf is the kind of defensive gem that Sullivan absolutely loves burying in D-zone minutes and is making $1.5 million.

Plus, the idea Toronto was too "soft" for the playoffs, at least Dubas has tried to rectify. Some misses (adding Foligno for a 1st), but some look to be good additions like O'Reilly and Acciari.

Every GM is going to make mistakes or whiff on some moves. But the difference between Dubas and what we've gotten in Pittsburgh lately is he has a clear vision and he also sees what his team's weaknesses are and actually addresses them rather than just operate around the fringes.

Is that perfect? No. But it's the right mindset and approach.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He's done a solid job of filling out Toronto's roster with value considering their tight cap constraints due to the contracts of the stars.

He hasn't been perfect. And there's the whole issue of not winning a playoff series. And my preference, as has been stated, is Darche. But Dubas is the kind of GM this team needs, even if he personally has some question marks.

I mean he's the one who signed those stars to those contracts. He's the one who really overpaid those star players and forced the Leafs into an uncomfortable cap situation. Not only that, he gave Tavares a mega UFA deal in free agency when the Leafs didn't need him at all solely because Tavares was a Leafs fan growing up.

Granted it's not all on Dubas, a lot of Leafs fans think Shanahan is heavily involved as well.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, @Sidney the Kidney laid it out pretty well in an earlier post.


Is that perfect? No. But it's the right mindset and approach.

So he got a bunch of Toronto boys to sign for cheap.

I dunno man. We aren’t getting cheap value contracts due to being Toronto.

That’s largely what Dubas has gotten right outside of Brodie.

His trade history which is what we need from a GM to swing the fences is miserable.

I don’t have a problem with Dubas. But he’s not a top candidate for me.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Blob Rossi has the worst list of candidates put together.

Lol brisebois' assistant Darche, yeah learn from the bloke that literally doesn't have a first until 2026 and is riding success as a GM from exploiting the LTIR loophole which is the only legit reason he won two cups.

Logical....

 

[Turin]

Saw something about Stan Bowman, think whoever said that was totally full of it. No way.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think by far my biggest criticism of Dubas is how he took over a team with a terrific future but made unnecessary moves that forced the expectations of a top contender on the team too quickly. The Leafs were progressing really well in 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 under Lamoriello, with having an absolutely massive young core of forwards under 30 (Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Kadri, JVR, Hyman, Brown and Kapanen).

When Dubas took over, he threw a massive wrench in that entire structure and expectations by signing Tavares when the Leafs just didn't need him. To me, that was the beginning of the end for the Leafs being a true top contender. Their cap structure instantly became problematic with an $11 million Tavares and a young core that was going to need to be paid soon. Then after the Nylander holdout became dicey, he bent over backwards to give Marner and Matthews an ultra player friendly extension.

Any sort of cap constraints Dubas has had to work with came about by his own decisions. I don't give him credit for Toronto based veterans like Spezza and Simmonds signing for league minimum to play with the Leafs. He had an amazing situation when he took over the Leafs in 2018 and really hasn't done that much with it.

 

[Pens x]

Lots of talk about a guy that won’t be available if Toronto goes on a run.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Why would Dubas leave? It makes no sense.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Why would Dubas leave? It makes no sense.

His contract is expiring. Toronto hasn't given him an extension.

 

[Pens x]

Why would Dubas leave? It makes no sense.

I guess they are under the assumption Toronto cans him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

1st for Foligno.

Traded LA Moore, Durzi and Grundstrom for a year or so of Muzzin, Jack Campbell and Kyle Clifford.

Lost Marchment for Maglin.

Gave away Connor Brown.

Etc etc

The bolded is a bit disingenuous. Muzzin suffered what looks like a career ending injury. Otherwise that deal was not "a year or so of Muzzin". And that's a perfect example of a win-win trade for both sides. Toronto badly needed a physical #2/3 D-man and that's what Muzzin brought them.

The Marchment for Malgin deal is also a bit disingenuous because Marchment hadn't proven anything at that point. Marchment was basically a AHL call-up who provided physicality at that point. That's like criticizing the Pens for moving on from Sam Lafferty if Lafferty turned into a 20 goal scorer elsewhere. No one would have predicted it at the time of the trade.

The only "bad" trade Dubas has made is the 1st for about 15 games of Foligno. And while the price was certainly bad, the mindset behind it wasn't. At least it was an attempt to address a glaring need at the time (physicality to play in the top nine).

That's the thing I like about Dubas. Not that he wins every trade he makes, but there's actually a REASON for every trade he makes. You may not agree with the price, but at least you can see the "why" of why the deal was made within the context of the Leafs' needs. It's a nice change from our club randomly acquiring guys we don't really need or who don't fit what we want them to do.

 

[molon labe]

If they get bounced early I wonder what goes on there though, and I do wonder what kind of connection Dubas has with any of them (cough, Marner)

Dubas is better than Hextall but he really hasn’t done a great job with the Leafs as GM. He’s way too married to players he had while in juniors, it’s an obvious trend where he targets former Soo players.

He’s a bright hockey mind but he’s really hurt by his loyalties. He bent over backwards and gave the Leafs core whatever they wanted and has a big problem with favoritism. If he was more of a cut throat type of guy, I think he’d be one of the better GMs in hockey. He's way too sentimental.

Would any of that be an issue here?

Edit: I don't have Toronto getting bounced early this year. The above is hypothetical. Yes I have them competing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I guess they are under the assumption Toronto cans him.

I would have to imagine that Dubas’ extension is keyed to the Leafs’ postseason. It’s be supremely weird to not extend the GM if they go on a decent run.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Would any of that be an issue here?

Edit: I don't have Toronto getting bounced early this year. The above is hypothetical. Yes I have them competing.

The part about bending over backwards to pay his stars, no. The fact that he's obsessed with re-acquiring former players from his OHL team? Yes, that is absolutely a problem.

Do you really want the GM who thought the solution to his goalie issues last off-season was Matt Murray as the new Penguins GM?

 

[BusinessGoose]

At least when we inevitably fire Darche because of Sullivan, we have memes ready