Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[Pancakes]

Marner is a top 3 2-way forward in the league. They use him in every situation, and he's excellent at them all. It's a big price tag but he earns it.

Similarly, Matthews can really defend too, on top of averaging 50 goals per 82 games played.
Again, it's a giant price tag, but it makes more sense than a lot of massive AAV's in this league.

If these AAV's were so debilitating, they wouldn't be finishing 4th in the league.
Tavares is the contract you should be mentioning. He's a defensive liability, and his production is worse than these 2.

Yeah Matthews at that AAV is completely reasonable, especially given where the cap is at now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t see how any of this is weird

Because it's really unusual for how NHL teams operate.

The closest example I can think of was when Trotz was available and teams reached out to him to ask if he'd be interested in coaching. But this stuff about FSG and Dubas is far more than that. It's something I don't recall seeing from another hockey team, at least not recently.

It wouldn't strike me as remotely weird if this was soccer, and their background is a lot more in their sphere. Dunno how it's done in baseball, but courting a guy seen as an elite organisational force sounds about right. Obviously opinions will differ on how elite he is, but since they see it, it sounds about right.

Yeah it's more of a Premier League style of recruiting than how most NHL hiring seem to go.

 

[Jacob]

Usually AGMs run the farm team, so if that team sucks you should cross them off your list.

Norfolk is solid though, and they tend to churn out NHL players pretty well.

 

[Malkinstheman]

If Dubas says no, I wonder if the hire will be a name we haven't even heard. Friedman threw out the Dallas and Boston AGMs names and no one had mentioned them before

 

[Pens x]

Since I'm already the board's Mike Sullivan apologist and am now stuck defending Rossi and Yohe, might as well complete the triumvirate and officially become a pariah with this note...

Mario Lemieux was checked out for several years before the sale to FSG.

He hasn't done a press conference or interview in years. He never spoke publicly about the sale. He never spoke after Rutherford quit. He's basically been invisible since the Cups.

This concept that he wanted the Big 3 to retire together is based on old information. We never heard directly from Mario what he thought about that concept as Letang and Malkin approached free agency. Everything was being run through Morehouse. He was the one who introduced Hextall and Burke after they were hired.

I don't think it's quite the leap to believe that Lemieux no longer cared about keeping the Big 3 together, that he was just ready to sell the team and move on, which gave Morehouse the freedom to pursue a GM who would overhaul the team around Sid.

So you hire Ron Hextall to “overhaul” the team? The guy that was known to be excessively “patient” (if patient also means incompetent, dysfunctional and a coward) and afraid of his own shadow?

 

[CallArnoldSlick]

Dubas was HORRIBLE at negotiating those contracts. Matthews got
11.6 AAV too much
5 YEARS walking him straight to UFA status Just terrible
Included a NMC for the last year so you can't trade him Insane

Crosby's first non-ELC deal was 5 years with a full NMC in the last year. Sid's cap hit % was 17.3, Matthews' was 14.6.

Yeah, Crosby was a better player, but that's a fairly standard contract for an elite #1 draft pick to demand.

 

[SaucyCelly]

Dubas was HORRIBLE at negotiating those contracts. Matthews got
11.6 AAV too much
5 YEARS walking him straight to UFA status Just terrible
Included a NMC for the last year so you can't trade him Insane

Marner got 10.9 AAV and gave him the MNC for the last 2 years of his deal.

Those deals are just so bad I'm lost for words...

1) Those deals were completed in the very begining of his tenure.
2) No one was predicting a flat cap for 3 years back when those were signed.
3) Id say that was market value for both forwards.

The contract you should look at is Tavares. But who knew he would decline this much at 32?

 

[Empoleon8771]

1) Those deals were completed in the very begining of his tenure.
2) No one was predicting a flat cap for 3 years back when those were signed.
3) Id say that was market value for both forwards.

The contract you should look at is Tavares. But who knew he would decline this much at 32?

I also don't think it's fair to criticize him for that. It doesn't matter who the GM was, the people above Dubas were going to force whoever was the GM to sign Tavares. There was no way a young and inexperienced GM would be able to say no to signing a hometown star.

 

[Gurglesons]

Tavares is the type of signing you have to make if he is willing to take what was a pay cut at that time. The world ending and the cap getting f***ed is not on Dubas.

 

[Pancakes]

Tavares is the type of signing you have to make if he is willing to take what was a pay cut at that time. The world ending and the cap getting f***ed is not on Dubas.

Would rather have a gm with some balls anyways. God knows we've paid out the ass for absolute shit like Granlund, Carter, etc the past few years.

Tavares is still good. He's no longer worth that contract, but he was for the first odd years of it.

If Dubas comes here I bet he'll go out and try and make a splash, which is what this team needs.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tavares is the type of signing you have to make if he is willing to take what was a pay cut at that time. The world ending and the cap getting f***ed is not on Dubas.

What's crazy is that Tavares was offered even more than the Leafs offered, I believe the Sharks were offering $13 million a year to JT when he was a free agent. That would still be the highest paid player today.

Dubas has his faults but the Tavares situation is absolutely not one of them.

 

[SaucyCelly]

I also don't think it's fair to criticize him for that. It doesn't matter who the GM was, the people above Dubas were going to force whoever was the GM to sign Tavares. There was no way a young and inexperienced GM would be able to say no to signing a hometown star.

I'm not saying Dubas shouldn't have done the contract. Just more questionsable compared to the Matthew's and Marner contracts.

 

[Pancakes]

What's crazy is that Tavares was offered even more than the Leafs offered, I believe the Sharks were offering $13 million a year to JT when he was a free agent. That would still be the highest paid player today.

Dubas has his faults but the Tavares situation is absolutely not one of them.

Amazing how many people care about how much Dubas paid good players as though we aren't coming off a series of gms that paid out the ass for absolute garbage.

Oh no Dubas might give a good player too much money and then we won't be able to afford to sign the next Brock Mcginn

 

[66-30-33]

Would rather have a gm with some balls anyways. God knows we've paid out the ass for absolute shit like Granlund, Carter, etc the past few years.

Tavares is still good. He's no longer worth that contract, but he was for the first odd years of it.

If Dubas comes here I bet he'll go out and try and make a splash, which is what this team needs.

I still want Fowler.

Fowler-Letang
Petts-Petry

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not saying Dubas shouldn't have done the contract. Just more questionsable compared to the Matthew's and Marner contracts.

Yeah I think that's fair too. Dubas has his criticisms but I think the main focus of them is with his loyalty to former players he was familiar with. The Murray acquisition last year was both mind boggling and also entirely predictable.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Amazing how many people care about how much Dubas paid good players as though we aren't coming off a series of gms that paid out the ass for absolute garbage.

Oh no Dubas might give a good player too much money and then we won't be able to afford to sign the next Brock Mcginn

Where did Brock hurt you?

Part of our issue last year was a bottom 6 who couldnt chip in offense to save their lives.

 

[Pancakes]

Where did Brock hurt you?

Part of our issue last year was a bottom 6 who couldnt chip in offense to save their lives.

No doubt.

All I'm saying is paying too much money for good players would be a welcome change from paying too much for bad ones .

And I don't think most of the contracts Dubas gave out were bad anyways.

 

[Malkinstheman]

This is the work history of Nick Pryor, Chris Pryor's son. Hextall made alot of questionable moves but this still boggles my mind. Listen, maybe the guy is capable but the fact that Hextall is buddies with his Dad just rubs me the wrong way. Making your son the director of amateur scouting right after joining a new org is a crazy level of nepotism. I bet Nick gets fired the day after the draft and is replaced by the new GM.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Dubas was in cranberry a month ago?!? THE PLOT THICKENS

Dubas spotted in Jimmy Wan's ordering potstickers. GM material!

 

[AuroraBorealis]

View attachment 712468

This is the work history of Nick Pryor, Chris Pryor's son. Hextall made alot of questionable moves but this still boggles my mind. Listen, maybe the guy is capable but the fact that Hextall is buddies with his Dad just rubs me the wrong way. Making your son the director of amateur scouting right after joining a new org is a crazy level of nepotism. I bet Nick gets fired the day after the draft and is replaced by the new GM.

Never ceases to amaze me how Philly shoots itself in the foot.
7 playoff misses in the last 11 years, and they're still years away from getting back to the dance.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Crosby's first non-ELC deal was 5 years with a full NMC in the last year. Sid's cap hit % was 17.3, Matthews' was 14.6.

Yeah, Crosby was a better player, but that's a fairly standard contract for an elite #1 draft pick to demand.

Crosby's cap hit was 15.3% when his contract first took effect

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not saying Dubas shouldn't have done the contract. Just more questionsable compared to the Matthew's and Marner contracts.

354 points in 360 games. That's what you pay for UFA talent that does that.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Tavares is the type of signing you have to make if he is willing to take what was a pay cut at that time. The world ending and the cap getting f***ed is not on Dubas.

Disagree. Tavares was never worth that contract, even without COVID f***ing over the cap.

The deal made him the 2nd highest paid forward in the entire league. The only guy (at the time) who was paid more was McDavid. At that point, he wasn't close to the second best forward in hockey. And at his age, the chances of him IMPROVING was almost nil.

If Toronto simply had Matthews, Marner, Nylander and kept Kadri, that would have put them in a better position to make impact moves elsewhere if $11 million was tied up in an 80 point player.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Disagree. Tavares was never worth that contract, even without COVID f***ing over the cap.

The deal made him the 2nd highest paid forward in the entire league. The only guy (at the time) who was paid more was McDavid. At that point, he wasn't close to the second best forward in hockey. And at his age, the chances of him IMPROVING was almost nil.

If Toronto simply had Matthews, Marner, Nylander and kept Kadri, that would have put them in a better position to make impact moves elsewhere if $11 million was tied up in an 80 point player.

Kadri wasnt a Toronto born player who war Leaf pajamas as a kid though. Wont someone think of the kids!

The Leafs ownership wanted a big UFA splash. Stamkos used them as leverage against the Lightning, they werent going to let Tavares get away. Signings like that are just as much ownership as the GM.

 

[cygnus47]

Man, if the Yohe article is right I don't think Sully is going anytime soon...