Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Scriptor]

Dubois < Gurianov.

So there it is, the trade proposal:

Gurianov for Dubois, straight up?

 

[Mackiaveli]

Drouin back and Dvorak having 3rd line duty.

Dvo is a fantastic, defensively reliable center who would slot in nicely on the 3rd line. He is not a 4th liner.

Drouin has been quietly one of our best players for the last 21 games. He has a lot of offensive upside, and is a talented 2nd PP guy.

The only mistake I made was not including Gurianov

 

[Scriptor]

Suzuki, then Dubois:

Suzuki, then Dubois:

Comparable players. I like both and think having both would make us much better. Just click the inserts to get a full view.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Dvo is a fantastic, defensively reliable center who would slot in nicely on the 3rd line. He is not a 4th liner.

Drouin has been quietly one of our best players for the last 21 games. He has a lot of offensive upside, and is a talented 2nd PP guy.

The only mistake I made was not including Gurianov

I disagree. I didn't mentioned Evans who sucks too. I have high standards for that team, especially when we have to play vs Bruins, TBay, Leafs. I don't want that team in the bottom for half a decade.

 

[junyab]

I'd like to try and trade for him if the cost isn't too high and he does in fact want to play in the belle province.

 

[1909]

If Dubois really, really, wants to play for MTL, he will wait next year when he reach his UFA status whatevere Winnipeg do with him (keep or trade) in the meantime.

Habs don't need him next season. But in two years , with all out youth blossoming nicely, he will be a great addition to reach Playoffs and do damage then.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

If Dubois really, really, wants to play for MTL, he will wait next year when he reach his UFA status whatevere Winnipeg do with him (keep or trade) in the meantime.

Habs don't need him next season. But in two years , with all out youth blossoming nicely, he will be a great addition to reach Playoffs and do damage then.

He will be elsewhere, we will lose him because we beleive he will still be available. Another GM, a smart one (let's say Brière) will bring him and bye-bye Montreal Habs. You mention he will be a nice addition when our need for him will fit nicelly? That works in real life, people wait for you like if you are a princess of a Walt Disney movie?

 

[Colezuki]

He will be elsewhere, we will lose him because we beleive he will still be available. Another GM, a smart one (let's say Brière) will bring him and bye-bye Montreal Habs. You mention he will be a nice addition when our need for him will fit nicelly? That works in real life, people wait for you like if you are a princess of a Walt Disney movie?

I agree, people act like if he wants to come here he will wait.

Except he never said that it's montreal only, just that Montreal was one of the teams he wanted to go too. Then on top of this we ssay all the time that we can't attract top end FA's and now, a player who is a top player, in there prime wants to come here and we decide that we'd rather wait.

 

[Destopcorner]

Barron should be the main piece going for PLD. Yeah he's a righty full of potential but also a ticking time bomb when slightly pressured, the kind that cost a serie with a bonehead play. His brother plays in Winnipeg, they like him and could sign em both long term.

We have more than enough Ds in the system to part ways with Barron imo.

Barron+Dvorak( Win should compete next year and have cap space so no Interest in Beck)+ b prospect is my offer.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

He will be elsewhere, we will lose him because we beleive he will still be available. Another GM, a smart one (let's say Brière) will bring him and bye-bye Montreal Habs. You mention he will be a nice addition when our need for him will fit nicelly? That works in real life, people wait for you like if you are a princess of a Walt Disney movie?

If Dubois is stupid enough to have sign with the Flyers we don't want him. If he wants to play for Montreal the only question is does he want to sign a 1 year contract (risk a serious injury) and go to UFA. I believe a sign and trade can be done Jan 1 and I wouldn't make a trade until it can be a sign and trade. And at that point in time the Jets will probably have to decide what to do with their FA's.

 

[ottawa]

Wait until UFA next year, if it's meant to be then it'll happen. It also gives us another year of tanking.

 

[Scriptor]

If Dubois is stupid enough to have sign with the Flyers we don't want him. If he wants to play for Montreal the only question is does he want to sign a 1 year contract (risk a serious injury) and go to UFA. I believe a sign and trade can be done Jan 1 and I wouldn't make a trade until it can be a sign and trade. And at that point in time the Jets will probably have to decide what to do with their FA's.

Why not sign and trade this summer instead. Why would we need to wait until January? Unless WIN is already out of the playoffs at X-Mas, why would they trade Dubois in January?

I don't understand where you are coming from?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Why not sign and trade this summer instead. Why would we need to wait until January? Unless WIN is already out of the playoffs at X-Mas, why would they trade Dubois in January?

I don't understand where you are coming from?

Can they do a sign and trade in the summer?

 

[Scriptor]

Wait until UFA next year, if it's meant to be then it'll happen. It also gives us another year of tanking.

Clearly, tanking is more important to you.

This whole the universe will take care of everything approach with, "If it's meant to be, the it will happen," is just another way to say you don't want Dubois.

Tanking VS building?

I take actual building, because, even without Dubois, if the Habs are healthy, they will not be a bottom-5 team, and likely not a bottom-10 team.

Nah, forget Dubois, we'll see if we can keep winning the lottery to get top picks for am few years.

The odds won't be more than 7.5%, if we're lucky? Well, there's still a chance...

It's more important to confirm adding a player like Dubois during the offseason at a reasonable asset cost and Cap hit, if you can, than letting things play out to free agency and finding out then.

The only reason I would wait until free agency is if the demands fro WIN were ridiculous.

I am not saying to let yourself get robbed to trade for him.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Dubois < Gurianov.

So there it is, the trade proposal:

Gurianov for Dubois, straight up?

I believe it would have to be Dubois + a 7th for Gurianov...

Because of the <...

 

[Alexandre Magny]

1er Floride + Harris vs Dubois ça va ressembler à ça.


Winnipeg ne laissera jamais aller Dubois pour rien mais et si il est Trader aux Rangers, Aux Bruins, à l'avalanche ou aux diables Ben il risque de signer à long terme à cet endroit.

S le ch le veut, il devra payer.

 

[Scriptor]

1er Floride + Harris vs Dubois ça va ressembler à ça.


Winnipeg ne laissera jamais aller Dubois pour rien mais et si il est Trader aux Rangers, Aux Bruins, à l'avalanche ou aux diables Ben il risque de signer à long terme à cet endroit.

S le ch le veut, il devra payer.

Je suis du même avis. Montréal devra payer pour acquérir Dubois.

Dubois peut bien vouloir jouer à Montréal, mais si une équipe en position pour gagner la coupe, dans un marché attrayant -- New York, Boston, Colorado -- trouvent le moyen de faire de la place pour lui sous le Cap pour quand il deviendra joueurs autonome sans restrictions, il serait sûrement attiré par une offre d'un tel club.

La victoire est très attrayante au final.

Montréal devra payer pour l'acquérir via une transaction avant d'être pris dans une situation de compétition avec un autre club pour Dubois une fois qu'il sera agent libre sans restrictions.

Si tout va bien, Montréal aura l'avantage de pouvoir offrir un choix de milieu de première ronde, avec le choix de la Floride, plutôt qu'un choix de fin de première ronde de la part d'une équipe aspirante à la Coupe comme Boston, Colorado ou New York.

Le seul avantage que je vois est que New York pourrait offrir un Lafrenière ou un Kakko avec un choix tardif de première;re ronde pour Dubois.

Tant qu'à moi, avec le choix de milieu de première ronde, Montréal devra ajouter Harris, comme tu dis (ou Barron), mais aussi un espoir au centre comme Beck, pour rivaliser avec l'offre de New York.

L'équipe qui transigera pour Dubois avec un sign and trade sera l'équipe qui aura Dubois, pas celle qui espère l'avoir comme agent libre sans restrictions l'an prochain, selon moi.

À voir...

***************************************************************************************************

I agree. Montreal will have to pay up something to get Dubois.

Dubois could well want to play for Montreal, but, if a team in an attractive hockey market -- New York, Boston, Colorado -- already on the cusp of winning the Stanley Cup, manages to shed Cap space in time for Dubois hitting the UFA market, he surely would be tempted by an offer from such a team.

The possibility of winning a Cup trumps all.

Montreal will need to sacrifice something in a trade for Dubois before being in open competition with other teams once Dubois reaches UFA status -- if Montreal truly wants Dubois on there roster.

If all goes well, Montreal will have a better trade chip in a mid-first round pick via Florida's pick, than a contender might have with its own later pick for the first round in 2023.

The only advantage I see in a trade offer from a contender would be from a team like New York if it feels it can win now with Dubois. The Rangers could also offer up Lafrenière or Kakko to go along with their late first round pick in 2023.

To compete with such an offer, I believe that, on top of a mid-first round pick, Montreal would need to add Beck and one of Harris or Barron.

Barron, with the family link to another Barron, already in the Winnipeg organization, could represent a long term signature for a team that has trouble attracting and retaining talent and that would undoubtedly be attractive to them. Beck and the player drafted in 2023 would both be long term,. team-controlled assets as well.

The team that will land Dubois long term will have traded for him this offseason, IMO.

To be seen...

 

[SwiftyHab]

1er Floride + Harris vs Dubois ça va ressembler à ça.


Winnipeg ne laissera jamais aller Dubois pour rien mais et si il est Trader aux Rangers, Aux Bruins, à l'avalanche ou aux diables Ben il risque de signer à long terme à cet endroit.

S le ch le veut, il devra payer.

I think if we drop our lottery position for our first pick, I’d do this as a consolidation prize at the draft

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hughes has been telling us all year we are only picking once in the first round. Florida's pick is not an undrafted prospect, it's a trade piece to get us a young player ... and who else, if not PLD



Let's say we land 1OA somehow and draft Bedard - we also trade Dvorak, a 1st, and something else for PLD

Suzuki - He is a center.
Dach - Probably better as a center, but a line-driver as a winger
PLD - He is a center.

I would put Bedard on the wing with PLD to start - Bedard can still take faceoffs on his strong-side, and he can focus on producing offensively while he adjusts to the NHL pace... But after a year or two? He would be our 1C. When it became time to extend Bedard, we would likely be pressed for cap - I imagine Dach would be the casualty due to contract length.

I would be very surprised outside of drafting top 3 if the Habs don't draft Reinbacher or Guly ESPECIALLY if PLD is on the docket.


Dach/Suzuki/Caufield
Slafkovsky/PLD/Bedard [Fantilli, Michkov, Smith, Benson]
Drouin/Dvorak/Anderson
RHP/Evans/Gallagher
Monahan (I would like him in the lineup and on the team - but who knows with his injuries)

Matheson/Barron
Guhle/Savard
Xhekaj/Harris

I would like to see us bring Drouin back (though, I would be SHOCKED if Jo wants to come back to Montreal)

I would like to see us trade one of Gallagher or Anderson (I love both players and people - but I think that there is a lot of cap space used on two players who, with PLD/Dach/Slafkovsky - should be redundant)

I would like to see us bring in a free agent - Matt Dumba, as an example, would be a solid pick-up if we don't end up drafting Reinbacher ... maybe even Klingberg?

I could also see Montreal trading Allen, and signing Andersen or Jarry or Blackwood...

My 2023 Wish List is PLD and a bit more veteran presence in our bottom 6 ... I know we want to give the kids room, so short-term deals are ideal, but players like Pavelski, Killorn, JVR would be great mentors for what has to be one of the youngest cores in the NHL.

I agree with many parts of this but not sure I would bring back Drouin. I won't complain if it's for $1M but I do think he blocks a roster spot for Farrell, Heineman, RHP. I also think having Drouin around again is a distraction we should avoid. Media/Fans can't stop focusing on him. Drouin at $1M vs Gallagher at $6.5M next year... I think Drouin still gets more focus.

Not sure if we get Bedard or we are able to trade for Dubois (price we can afford) but it is fun to try to pencil in a roster. I just don't understand why some of our fans don't want to consider stacking the top 9 with a good 4th line. If a center has to play wing because there is good talent surplus, that's a good situation, not a bad situation. Guys like Dach and Bedard can play both center or wing and their hockey IQ his high enough to know how to play each position. Dubois added as a proven physical center who is good in many areas is a team need. We need our roster to have both skill and grit with good skating players that have good shots. Finding a physical center like Dubois is not easy to find.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The thing that was hard to understand is why this only came out at the last minute. For me a manager has to know what a player's intentions are long before new contracts are discussed.

They usually do but in some cases, they are held hostage because the Agent/Player don't reveal his cards. Tavares did this with the Islanders.

If Gaudreau told his teammates and/or management, I'm sure that would have gotten leaked right? Not sure but that's what I guess.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Here's my attempt at a single thread to discuss PLD so he doesn't take over every single other thread.
Consider this like a safe space. A trust tree if you will -a place where we can ask questions like:

• Does he really want to come here or is he just saying he does?
• Should we? or Shouldn't we? at what price? and when should we?
• is he too old?
• Is he worth the price to trade for him? Is he worth the price to sign him?
• Who is he good friends with on the Habs?
• Is he better than Dach?

Bonne chance mes amies!

Interesting to see a 40/52/8 split in voting so far.

* Saying no to either traded for him or signing him as a UFA is silly IMO. It won't be easy to add a physical center like that who can put up Suzuki production and is good in many areas that easy.

* Trade has to make sense if we go down that road. We have to trade from a position of strength like we did in the Dach trade.

* Waiting for him to be UFA is leading by a slight advantage. That's what makes this discussion so interesting.

It's just not black/white. And especially for us Fans who have come to find out lots of context but we still don't have all the information.

The area I ponder about is if we get Bedard and we do sign/trade for Dubois, how does your roster look next year? Where do you fit in guys like Slaf, Farrell, Heineman, Armia, Gallagher. Ideally, I like having Armia in the Dubois package and we flip Eddy at 50% retention to a contender for a 2nd round+ return on draft day as well. We did save one retention spot that would expire in July and using that before July is of value because then we get our 3 retention spots back for next season.

 

[ManixLiquid]

Why some seems to think Dubois won't cost a lot to acquire? Even if he really wants to come here, Jets ain't going to do Habs any favors.

Tkachuck wanted to play with the Panthers. Florida have to give Huberdeau. Yes Tkachuk and Dubois not of the same level, but still.

What if Winnipeg asked for Dach +? Would you want Hugues to pull the trigger?

Ppl are offering Dvorak or Anderson. Jets are in win now mode. They need a second center. Not Dvorak?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Why some seems to think Dubois won't cost a lot to acquire? Even if he really wants to come here, Jets ain't going to do Habs any favors.

Tkachuck wanted to play with the Panthers. Florida have to give Huberdeau. Yes Tkachuk and Dubois not of the same level, but still.

What if Winnipeg asked for Dach +? Would you want Hugues to pull the trigger?

Ppl are offering Dvorak or Anderson. Jets are in win now mode. They need a second center. Not Dvorak?

Because the same teams and GMs were involved in the same situation with Trouba.

The Florida and Calgary trade was an outlier.. every other trade like we are proposing for Dubois is a 20+ first and a roster player, with some variance of smaller picks and B level prospects.

 

[ManixLiquid]

Because the same teams and GMs were involved in the same situation with Trouba.

The Florida and Calgary trade was an outlier.. every other trade like we are proposing for Dubois is a 20+ first and a roster player, with some variance of smaller picks and B level prospects.

That I understand but Jets are not rebuilding. Maybe Jets GM is not a good negotiator? They gave Laine to get Dubois. If He doesn't ask at least for Dach, I don't get it.

 

[Kimota]

Why some seems to think Dubois won't cost a lot to acquire? Even if he really wants to come here, Jets ain't going to do Habs any favors.

Tkachuck wanted to play with the Panthers. Florida have to give Huberdeau. Yes Tkachuk and Dubois not of the same level, but still.

What if Winnipeg asked for Dach +? Would you want Hugues to pull the trigger?

Ppl are offering Dvorak or Anderson. Jets are in win now mode. They need a second center. Not Dvorak?

It will probably cost more than what people are proposing but it won't cost a Dach. It's a situation where the Panthers and Flames were in a rush to make something happen. Gaudreau had just went away, the Flames had a gun to their temple, they had to do something before losing it all and having to go scorched Earth. And the Panthers had the chance to get their hands on a quality guy like Tkachuk, they wanted him badly. In the case of the Habs, they like Dubois but are not crazy for him. And they may think he'll sign with them anyway. And the Jets may be thinking of doing a small rebuild next year and get picks for Dubois. Guys like Sheifele have seen better days.