Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Rapala]

For those who voted Sign him next summer as a UFA, it's gonna be too late. A smart GM elsewhere will make a deal and Dubois will play elsewhere. Bye-bye the team with 3 good centers, Habs will be a 2 good centers team and turds like Dvorak to make sure Habs miss the PO by 2 points.

So our pipeline is empty and our draft is meaningless?

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

So our pipeline is empty and our draft is meaningless?

If we don't draft Bedard or a center like him, our pipeline is empty in term of centers. We can think this or this center will become a good as PLD but nothing is sure and it's at least 3 years waiting for development.
And those quoting Dvorak is a solid 2 way center for the third line, sorry but Dvo sucks badly. Too damn slow and nothing good except face-offs.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Or some people simply believe Hughes won't remove Dach from progressing in the 2C role he's only just begun because that is why he got him in the first place. True or False one of Dach PLD Suzuki would neccessarily end up on wing. There is a chance some animosity could be created if one of our placeholders gets bumped. Would PLD be okay coming here as a winger and sign long term as such?

Hughes did say he believes Dach should be developing at center but we are also playing him on wing so I don't think it's black/white where you make a decision and stick with it.

I think the main point and strategy is bringing in talent. You will have injuries and having a guy playing on wing with Suzuki like Dach can be moved to center if needed. Having these options are a good thing, not a bad thing.

Dach is basically a center when he plays wing anyways. He's smart enough to know the positions and system for each spot (Center or Wing). After the puck is dropped, forwards do move around. Dach's puck possession skills are actually better than Suzuki in terms of carrying it and dealing with contact.

Dubois is better on faceoffs and it's not easy to find a forward like this who is physical. Adding this to our mix is a positive regardless of where we play him or Dach or even Bedard if we win the lottery.

Down the road, it's possible that Suzuki can play RW and I don't think players complain too much if they are playing with good talent on their line.

 

[Habs Halifax]

1. I would imagine he really wants to play in Montreal - if it was just a matter of playing in >NOT WINNIPEG< he would have been moved already.

2. We shouldn't wait simply because much can change between now and then ... what if he gets a significantly higher offer as a UFA and we have to match it and end up paying 1-2m for his contract?

3. Definitely not - He turns 25 this year, so even on an 8 year contract, we likely get at MOST, one 'bad' year out of it.

4. Depends how much it is to trade for him - I would give Florida's pick if it's 15/16/17/18+ because there's next to no chance a PLD quality player will be available at that pick. In terms of cap space? No question.

5. I think friendships are formed when you are brought onto the team, moreso than having existing relationships. I imagine if Drouin stays they would be close - he is probably in the right age group to fit in with Suzuki/Cole/Dvo etc

6. They're both very good players for very different reasons - I thinl Dach has more offensive upside and is the better player with the puck on his stick, and while both are all-rounded physical forecheckers, PLD's game away from the puck is probably better.

I think the most valuable thing about bringing over PLD is that (assuming no Bedard/Fantilli) it would shore us up down the middle, and free Dach up to play on the wing with Caufield/Suzuki. I think the numbers are pretty evident in showing that Dach drives play on that line, so freeing him up to play wing gives the team a bit more flexibility.

Would our fan base flip out if we get Bedard or Fantilli and they start on wing with Dubois as their center?

Lets say we have Suzuki, Dach, Bedard, Dubois, Kidney (Beck potentially traded for Dubois). Why can't we run with 3 very good lines with a good 4th at 5/5 and stack our talent on two PP units? I don't see any problems here

Are we planning on just assembling two good lines with one good PP unit and the other is meh? Is that our cup contending strategy?

 

[Ozmodiar]

I know PLD is not a superstar. I'm thinking of a well balanced team with PLD. 3 good centers. Compared with the actual team, a team with more grit and more agressive pressure in offensive zone. I'm thinking the team overall would be +10 because every line would provide a good balance of offense and defence. It's not only a matter of having a top goalie and try to win games 2-1.

We have to stop thinking about a messiah or a saviour. This is a team sport where every element is part of a big puzzle. Too many people here think about Bedard and the hockey intelligence stops there. Outside of Bedard, no hope. They want a superstar and magicly all the rest will become better.


I could agree Dach will improve faster than 3 years. Even with a very good Dach and Su, Habs are still with two good centers and two bad centers, not a winning team.

i agree with this.
They would make a good one-two punch, with no clear number 1 (unless that label is attached to Caufield’s centerman).

The question that comes up with the 3 Center approach is: no doubt, they’d be better right away, but in 3 years Dach will need a new contract … so, will he sign if there’s no room for advancement? Are we back to square one, with 2 good and 2 bad centers just as the competitive window opens? Former 3OA pick who sees himself as a center. Would it be like Jordan Staal in Pittsburg?

There’s just a lot of questions about where they see these players fitting in, long term. The discussion will include the 2023 1st, other trade targets, development of other players in the org, etc.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I think some posters live in the past. Probably think it's another Drouin situation and might be the same posters who said Danault is not worth any more than $3.5M and he's just a 3C. In love with KK just as much as they think Dach is a full time center now. The work at center is done and we don't need Dubois

Exactly what I think. We are twin brain brothers, lol.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Exactly what I think. We are twins brain brothers, lol.

I'm very confused as why some fans have low standards and don't consider that centers can play wing and if they are playing with talent, they will be perfectly fine with it.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I'm very confused as why some fans have low standards and don't consider that centers can play wing and if they are playing with talent, they will be perfectly fine with it.

Like you wrote previously, a center can play wing and think the game like a center and understand very much what he will do on the ice to help his center. Having two natural centers allows a second center to take a face-off when the first one is out. There is nothing wrong having more options at center. It can be built 3 strong lines or concentrate the talent on the two first lines, depends on the coach, depends on the 3 and 4 line.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Like you wrote previously, a center can play wing and think the game like a center and understand very much what he will do on the ice to help his center. Having two natural centers allows a second center to take a face-off when the first one is out. There is nothing wrong having more options at center. It can be built 3 strong lines or concentrate the talent on the two first lines, depends on the coach, depends on the 3 and 4 line.

Some posters dislike the "development" management from the past so much that they go overboard with it today. Develop at center properly. FFS, Suzuki started at RW boys and girls. Drai and RNH play a fair amount of games on the wing. Some fans need to give their head a shake

Dach comes back and plays wing with Suzuki and some fans flipped out. Sorry but we are not NHL development coaches.

 

[SwiftyHab]

1. I would imagine he really wants to play in Montreal - if it was just a matter of playing in >NOT WINNIPEG< he would have been moved already.

2. We shouldn't wait simply because much can change between now and then ... what if he gets a significantly higher offer as a UFA and we have to match it and end up paying 1-2m for his contract?

3. Definitely not - He turns 25 this year, so even on an 8 year contract, we likely get at MOST, one 'bad' year out of it.

4. Depends how much it is to trade for him - I would give Florida's pick if it's 15/16/17/18+ because there's next to no chance a PLD quality player will be available at that pick. In terms of cap space? No question.

5. I think friendships are formed when you are brought onto the team, moreso than having existing relationships. I imagine if Drouin stays they would be close - he is probably in the right age group to fit in with Suzuki/Cole/Dvo etc

6. They're both very good players for very different reasons - I thinl Dach has more offensive upside and is the better player with the puck on his stick, and while both are all-rounded physical forecheckers, PLD's game away from the puck is probably better.

I think the most valuable thing about bringing over PLD is that (assuming no Bedard/Fantilli) it would shore us up down the middle, and free Dach up to play on the wing with Caufield/Suzuki. I think the numbers are pretty evident in showing that Dach drives play on that line, so freeing him up to play wing gives the team a bit more flexibility.

Ok well I’m sold. Where do I sign?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

You don't weaken the organization you are paid by. There was no need to hurt Winnipeg's leverage. What if Caufield came out and said he didn't want a longterm deal, he wanted a deal to get to UFA so he could test the market?

That analogy doesn't make sense. Caufield is 5 years away from being able to test free agency. It wouldn't make any sense for Caufield to be talking about that right now.

Dubois has 1 year left before reaching ufa and he has no contract for next season. The jets wanted to sign Dubois long-term and Dubois didn't want to. What did you want Dubois to do? Lie to the jets and tell them he wants to be there long-term, but then refuse any multiple-year offer? That's essentially what Tavares and Gaudreau did. Do you really think the jets would prefer that outcome?

 

[Hannibal]

So our pipeline is empty and our draft is meaningless?

Our forward pipeline sucks.

 

[Tyson]

That analogy doesn't make sense. Caufield is 5 years away from being able to test free agency. It wouldn't make any sense for Caufield to be talking about that right now.

Dubois has 1 year left before reaching ufa and he has no contract for next season. The jets wanted to sign Dubois long-term and Dubois didn't want to. What did you want Dubois to do? Lie to the jets and tell them he wants to be there long-term, but then refuse any multiple-year offer? That makes no sense.

f*** the analogy. The point I tried to communicate is that while under contract with Winnipeg PLD should not have made his future intentions known. This weakened Winnipeg and that's just not right. If a player on the current Habs did that the knowledgeable fans on this site would not be happy.
Read my initial post, I thought it explained it...guess not.

 

[Vachon23]

f*** the analogy. The point I tried to communicate is that while under contract with Winnipeg PLD should not have made his future intentions known. This weakened Winnipeg and that's just not right. If a player on the current Habs did that the knowledgeable fans on this site would not be happy.
Read my initial post, I thought it explained it...guess not.

So you prefer when a player doesn’t say it and test the market without saying it letting the team with nothing ?

 

[Tyson]

So you prefer when a player doesn’t say it and test the market without saying it letting the team with nothing ?

I prefer that while under contract a player can tell his current team but shouldn't tell the entire world. This weakens his current team. Professional courtesy to the current team that pays your salary.

 

[Vachon23]

I prefer that while under contract a player can tell his current team but shouldn't tell the entire world. This weakens his current team. Professional courtesy to the current team that pays your salary.

How does this weakens the team ?

He have to courtesy to tell the team that he won’t resign there when he will be UFA, so they can start building the team without him in 2024 and not let them create there plan with him

 

[morhilane]

f*** the analogy. The point I tried to communicate is that while under contract with Winnipeg PLD should not have made his future intentions known. This weakened Winnipeg and that's just not right. If a player on the current Habs did that the knowledgeable fans on this site would not be happy.
Read my initial post, I thought it explained it...guess not.

That PLD didn't want to sign long-term with the Jets was revealed by a journalist, not PLD himself. And PLD never public said himself that he wanted to play in Montréal either. That's all coming from the local media who are basically harassing his entourage about it.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

f*** the analogy. The point I tried to communicate is that while under contract with Winnipeg PLD should not have made his future intentions known. This weakened Winnipeg and that's just not right. If a player on the current Habs did that the knowledgeable fans on this site would not be happy.
Read my initial post, I thought it explained it...guess not.

Why should we care about Jets. This is a team that can hardly attract players. Why it didn't worked with Laine?
Why this city isn't attractive among the other NHL cities?

There is two sides : the Jets Team and the players.
You worry too much about the Jets. This is an Habs forum here, lol.

 

[Tyson]

Why should we care about Jets. This is a team that can hardly attract players. Why it didn't worked with Laine?
Why this city isn't attractive among the other NHL cities?

There is two sides : the Jets Team and the players.
You worry too much about the Jets. This is an Habs forum here, lol.

I worry about proper professional etiquette. I could care less about the jets.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I prefer that while under contract a player can tell his current team but shouldn't tell the entire world. This weakens his current team. Professional courtesy to the current team that pays your salary.

Dubois didn't make that info public and even if he did, how does that weaken the jets? If that info never became public, do you really think the other GMs can't use simple logic and come to that conclusion based on the jets talking trade regarding their young 1C who is 1 year away from being ufa?

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I worry about proper professional etiquette. I could care less about the jets.

I could understand and it's very similar like the red flags some posters mention. Then it goes with comparaisons with Drouin. Every case is different. Conflicts happen between teams and players. And we don't know all the elements to make a sure judgement. But I find it fair PLD announce he won't resign in Winnipeg. They have time to decide.

In your personal life, how often you said to someone : "why you didn't tell me in advance? I could have planned something else. And now you bring me that at last minute".

 

[Mackiaveli]

Ok well I’m sold. Where do I sign?

Hughes has been telling us all year we are only picking once in the first round. Florida's pick is not an undrafted prospect, it's a trade piece to get us a young player ... and who else, if not PLD

Would our fan base flip out if we get Bedard or Fantilli and they start on wing with Dubois as their center?

Lets say we have Suzuki, Dach, Bedard, Dubois, Kidney (Beck potentially traded for Dubois). Why can't we run with 3 very good lines with a good 4th at 5/5 and stack our talent on two PP units? I don't see any problems here

Are we planning on just assembling two good lines with one good PP unit and the other is meh? Is that our cup contending strategy?

Let's say we land 1OA somehow and draft Bedard - we also trade Dvorak, a 1st, and something else for PLD

Suzuki - He is a center.
Dach - Probably better as a center, but a line-driver as a winger
PLD - He is a center.

I would put Bedard on the wing with PLD to start - Bedard can still take faceoffs on his strong-side, and he can focus on producing offensively while he adjusts to the NHL pace... But after a year or two? He would be our 1C. When it became time to extend Bedard, we would likely be pressed for cap - I imagine Dach would be the casualty due to contract length.

I would be very surprised outside of drafting top 3 if the Habs don't draft Reinbacher or Guly ESPECIALLY if PLD is on the docket.


Dach/Suzuki/Caufield
Slafkovsky/PLD/Bedard [Fantilli, Michkov, Smith, Benson]
Drouin/Dvorak/Anderson
RHP/Evans/Gallagher
Monahan (I would like him in the lineup and on the team - but who knows with his injuries)

Matheson/Barron
Guhle/Savard
Xhekaj/Harris

I would like to see us bring Drouin back (though, I would be SHOCKED if Jo wants to come back to Montreal)

I would like to see us trade one of Gallagher or Anderson (I love both players and people - but I think that there is a lot of cap space used on two players who, with PLD/Dach/Slafkovsky - should be redundant)

I would like to see us bring in a free agent - Matt Dumba, as an example, would be a solid pick-up if we don't end up drafting Reinbacher ... maybe even Klingberg?

I could also see Montreal trading Allen, and signing Andersen or Jarry or Blackwood...

My 2023 Wish List is PLD and a bit more veteran presence in our bottom 6 ... I know we want to give the kids room, so short-term deals are ideal, but players like Pavelski, Killorn, JVR would be great mentors for what has to be one of the youngest cores in the NHL.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Dach/Suzuki/Caufield
Slafkovsky/PLD/Bedard [Fantilli, Michkov, Smith, Benson]
Drouin/Dvorak/Anderson
RHP/Evans/Gallagher
Monahan (I would like him in the lineup and on the team - but who knows with his injuries)

Your post started well and then falled down badly. Drouin back and Dvorak having 3rd line duty.
When we can have enough talent to have a good center on 3rd line. That third line of yours destroys the entire team. And the 4th line too.

 

[SwiftyHab]

Hughes has been telling us all year we are only picking once in the first round. Florida's pick is not an undrafted prospect, it's a trade piece to get us a young player ... and who else, if not PLD

DId he really say that? Cause i keep hearing him say he wants a 3rd 1st rounder but never heard him say he's only intending on picking once in teh first round. Be cool if he could swing more Dach trades if thats the intention

 

[CHwest]

The thing that was hard to understand is why this only came out at the last minute. For me a manager has to know what a player's intentions are long before new contracts are discussed.

Every fan knew he was going, I mean there was hope against hope he was staying but the city knew.