Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Vachon23]

That would be wrong info. Calgary knew he was leaving, they were having a great season and were thinking cup run, that's why he wasn't traded.

That’s what Flames general manager Brad Treliving was led to believe when the first-line left-winger and face-of-the-franchise called on Tuesday evening to deliver the news that he’d be departing as an unrestricted free agent.

Gilbertson: Gaudreau offers little explanation for leaving Calgary

Why did Johnny Gaudreau, the latest star to become a former member of the Flames leave? We're still not sure.

calgarysun.com

 

[MXD]

You don't trade for or sign Dubois to be your franchise player : you do so to add a big bodied, physical, two-way center/winger who will definitely play on your Top-6, but won't be your best player.

Some folks are gonna be disappointed with Dubois if we land him. Expectations are too high.

If you expect Dubois to sign at 7.5 or 8M as a UFA and score 90-100 points... You don't really expect him to score 90-100 points.

 

[salbutera]

You don't trade for or sign Dubois to be your franchise player : you do so to add a big bodied, physical, two-way center/winger.



If you expect Dubois to sign at 7.5 or 8M as a UFA and score 90-100 points... You don't really expect him to score 90-100 points.

$7.5M or $8M gets you a 65-75 pts player in todays NHL market… which is what PLD will output on a regular basis

 

[MXD]

$7.5M or $8M gets you a 65-75 pts player in todays NHL market

That's basically what I meant.

 

[sampollock]

not many on this one

PLD will not be moved at the draft, Kent won't pay the $$ to get him

 

[BaseballCoach]

You don't trade for or sign Dubois to be your franchise player : you do so to add a big bodied, physical, two-way center/winger who will definitely play on your Top-6, but won't be your best player.

If you expect Dubois to sign at 7.5 or 8M as a UFA and score 90-100 points... You don't really expect him to score 90-100 points.

Agreed to both paragraphs.

Those worried PLD is not a Mackinnon, Kucherov, Pastrnak or Matthews level player are right, but he won't be paid as one either.

 

[salbutera]

not many on this one

PLD will not be moved at the draft, Kent won't pay the $$ to get him

Hughes from that Pierre LeBrun interview on The Athletic:

“Listen, I think it’s going to be another two, three years … but again, we’re hopeful we have opportunities to trade for good, young players like a Kirby Dach, instead of using a draft pick for it. We’ll try to do that, and that’s kind of a way to expedite the timeline. But we won’t go sign a 28-year-old or 29-year-old to a long-term deal at this point in time to be that much better next season.”

Clear smoke signal with plausible deniability for tampering accusation.

Fla pick without a doubt will be offered in a package for PLD, whether Jets go for it is another matter altogether

 

[Ozmodiar]

Hughes from that Pierre LeBrun interview on The Athletic:


Clear smoke signal with plausible deniability for tampering accusation.

Fla pick without a doubt will be offered in a package for PLD, whether Jets go for it is another matter altogether

A young player like Dach could mean another 21 year old player to develop.

PLD will be 25 at the draft. Still young, but Hughes might want those extra 4 cost-controlled years.

 

[Rapala]

Pretty sure Dvorak would be heading the other way in a PLD deal, the Jets will need a center, and Dvorak gives them an option as a number two or three center who can be decent at both ends. Plus some salary would have to be going back.

Dvorak sucks and if I was Winnipeg I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. They will be asking for better than that IMO.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Agreed to both paragraphs.

Those worried PLD is not a Mackinnon, Kucherov, Pastrnak or Matthews level player are right, but he won't be paid as one either.

Even if you ignore the money for a moment. some have said he’ll instantly be the team’s top forward.

Well, Suzuki has a slight edge in career points per game and they aren’t going to separate him and Caufield. Suzuki/Caufield is 2/3 of the top line.

This makes PLD a winger or 2nd line center on this team. This is where the disappointment will be - bringing in PLD and NS is still the #1 center.

 

[MXD]

Dvorak sucks and if I was Winnipeg I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. The will be asking for better than that IMO.

The only reason Dvorak is sent the other way is as a corollary. He has no value in and of himself and is just there so Winnipeg gets a warm body and Montreal gets some cap space.

Even if you ignore the money for a moment. some have said he’ll instantly be the team’s top forward.

That's an evaluation mistake. That's people setting themselves up for disappointment.

But one thing Dubois would do is enabling Suzuki to be more effective. A bit like Danault would've.

 

[waitin425]

Even if you ignore the money for a moment. some have said he’ll instantly be the team’s top forward.

Well, Suzuki has a slight edge in career points per game and they aren’t going to separate him and Caufield. Suzuki/Caufield is 2/3 of the top line.

This makes PLD a winger or 2nd line center on this team. This is where the disappointment will be - bringing in PLD and NS is still the #1 center.

I don't think it will be disappointing at all. Pair PLD up with a scorer in the future and we have two deadly lines. Depending on who we draft I'd run something like this next year...

Dach - Suzuki - Caufield
Slaf - PLD - Anderson

 

[Rapala]

The only reason Dvorak is sent the other way is as a corollary. He has no value in and of himself and is just there so Winnipeg gets a warm body and Montreal gets some cap space.


That's an evaluation mistake. That's people setting themselves up for disappointment.

So who will they be getting from us ready to assume the top 6 role Dubois currently fills? I think it's been pointed out that Winnipeg need to compete again next year before all those contracts expire. Their market isn't like ours we've seen them lose a team in the past because of their on ice product.

 

[Vachon23]

PLD and NS are the same caliber of players. 2 completely different players though so all depending what type of player you prefer, you will say that one is better then the other one but they are in the same tier of caliber

 

[SOLR]

$7.5M or $8M gets you a 65-75 pts player in todays NHL market… which is what PLD will output on a regular basis

It's more +$9m on the UFA market.

 

[salbutera]

PLD and NS are the same caliber of players. 2 completely different players though so all depending what type of player you prefer, you will say that one is better then the other one but they are in the same tier of caliber

It’s not even preference, when team building you need varying styles to force the opposition to adapt. Suzuki’s cranial style & PLDs brut strength games should be viewed as complementary styles, and something that’s needed to be qualified as a good team.

 

[GobigorGohome]

We need a Deeper PLD thread .

 

[26Mats]

That’s what Flames general manager Brad Treliving was led to believe when the first-line left-winger and face-of-the-franchise called on Tuesday evening to deliver the news that he’d be departing as an unrestricted free agent.

Gilbertson: Gaudreau offers little explanation for leaving Calgary

Why did Johnny Gaudreau, the latest star to become a former member of the Flames leave? We're still not sure.

calgarysun.com

It depends on the price to get him this summer

 

[Vachon23]

It’s not even preference, when team building you need varying styles to force the opposition to adapt. Suzuki’s cranial style & PLDs brut strength games should be viewed as complementary styles, and something that’s needed to be qualified as a good team.

I was talking in a fan perspective that it depends what type of player you like.

In a team building perspective, you effectively need both of those style

 

[BaseballCoach]

The only reason Dvorak is sent the other way is as a corollary. He has no value in and of himself and is just there so Winnipeg gets a warm body and Montreal gets some cap space.


That's an evaluation mistake. That's people setting themselves up for disappointment.

But one thing Dubois would do is enabling Suzuki to be more effective. A bit like Danault would've.

And Monahan did

So who will they be getting from us ready to assume the top 6 role Dubois currently fills? I think it's been pointed out that Winnipeg need to compete again next year before all those contracts expire. Their market isn't like ours we've seen them lose a team in the past because of their on ice product.

They won't replace current production totally, nor would they if they deal PLD at the deadline.

We can offer Dvorak, Evans or Harris plus a 1st plus a prospect. They won't do better elsewhere.

 

[26Mats]

PLD and NS are the same caliber of players. 2 completely different players though so all depending what type of player you prefer, you will say that one is better then the other one but they are in the same tier of caliber

I'd take Suzuki over Dubois.

I like Suzuki's upside playing with top talent better. I like his iq, two way play, durability, and team first mind set.

 

[rickthegoon]

If I'm PLD, no way I'm going to Montreal, but if he's really serious, the Habs have to set up a firewall on his pc, phone and IPad to make sure hf boards is blocked on all devices.
On a more serious note, the Habs won't give major assets in a trade with Winnipeg. They can just wait 1 season more. Winnipeg is not in a power position at all, unless they find a way to sign him long term, which he clearly stated he won't.

 

[Tyson]

I'd take Suzuki over Dubois.

I like Suzuki's upside playing with top talent better. I like his iq, two way play, durability, and team first mind set.

Suzuki to me is the epitome of character. Dubois isn't

 

[Rapala]

PLD and NS are the same caliber of players. 2 completely different players though so all depending what type of player you prefer, you will say that one is better then the other one but they are in the same tier of caliber

People trying to compare them are off the rockers. One has had a significantly better line mates and teams than the other so I throw personal stats and plus minuses etc. out the window. What we do know is Suzuki has been better than Dubois in the post season including against each other. The only thing Dubois does better is skating and he is a tad more physical but he isn't the beast some make him out to be. I'm actually impressed with how much Suzuki has cut down his plus/minus given the lower end players he's worked with for a good part of this season.

 

[Rapala]

And Monahan did

They won't replace current production totally, nor would they if they deal PLD at the deadline.

We can offer Dvorak, Evans or Harris plus a 1st plus a prospect. They won't do better elsewhere.

But at the deadline they can move him after securing a legitimate shot at the post season and still come away with a solid bag of goodies. They have no choice but to get the most out of this asset after giving up Laine.