Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

“Would you rather that the Habs trade for Dubois or instead wait and try to sign him when he becomes


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Belial

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Oct 22, 2014
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Pretty sure Dvorak would be heading the other way in a PLD deal, the Jets will need a center, and Dvorak gives them an option as a number two or three center who can be decent at both ends. Plus some salary would have to be going back.
Winnipeg is in a weird situation...

They might try and go for it another year and then strip it all down Chicago style.

Dvorak makes sense somewhat, depending on what are their plans...

They have big decisions to make in terms of where they're heading.
 

Tyson

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How is that shit move? Dubois has zero obligation to re-sign long-term with Winnipeg. If anything, telling the jets in advance that he plans to test free agency is a good thing. The jets can trade him for assets and not lose him for nothing like what happened with Calgary and Gaudreau and the Islanders with Tavares.
You don't weaken the organization you are paid by. There was no need to hurt Winnipeg's leverage. What if Caufield came out and said he didn't want a longterm deal, he wanted a deal to get to UFA so he could test the market?
 
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BergevinBurner

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You don't weaken the organization you are paid by. There was no need to hurt Winnipeg's leverage. What if Caufield came out and said he didn't want a longterm deal, he wanted a deal to get to UFA so he could test the market?
If Caufield came out and said that and everybody knew he wanted to force his way to Winnipeg, then I'm sure the Jets fans wouldn't be too upset about it:laugh:
 
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Tyson

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If Caufield came out and said that and everybody knew he wanted to force his way to Winnipeg, then I'm sure the Jets fans wouldn't be too upset about it:laugh:
As a Habs fan how would you like knowing your best player was planning his next move and it weakened your GM's trade options, thus weakening the organization?
 

Expos94

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May 13, 2022
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i dont think people are expecting a superstar 100 point player from Dubois i think we all know PLD can become a good 70 to 80 points top 6 player for us that plays with grit he can even reach ppg hes only 24 not saying you but i see some people here talking about him like hes about to turn 30 hes only a few months older then Suzuki he can still become even better
He's a 60-65 pts guy ...
 
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BergevinBurner

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As a Habs fan how would you like knowing your best player was planning his next move and it weakened your GM's trade options, thus weakening the organization?
Obviously I wouldn't be happy, but we're not in that position.

Any team that can get a high end player because they want to play for you should count their blessings. Do you think the Rangers feel bad about getting Kane for next to nothing because he'd only accept a trade there? Or for signing Fox because he only wanted to sign there?
 

Expos94

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Depends on the 2023 draft pick. When can he contribute and where in the lineup?

Could be:
Caufield - Suzuki - 2023 5th OA
Slaf - Dach - Anderson

Not a bad start.

How much are you willing to pay (cap and trade assets) to upgrade from Andy to PLD, the winger version?

OTOH, if they pick 7th and take a D, then sure, go for it.
Don't overpay for a 60 pt player... 7.5 / 7years .
 
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Expos94

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No we can't do this...

This will cut the @sampollock post count in half lol, just joking Sammy.

In all seriousness - YES, acquire the man.

Why? He has more points than Suzuki this year, and has played in 7 fewer games, and we all agree that Suzuki is our best all around forward. If you can add a guy, who would automatically become your de Facto top forward and top Center then you do it... Yesterday. Especially considering all of the context that surrounds PLD and his desire to play for the Habs, his contract situation and Montreal's ability to leverage Winnipeg in a deal, and our own need. Not to mention, we haven't had a true number one center in almost 3 decades.

Size - PLD adds it, he's a 6'3, 220 lb man and he isn't shy about playing physical. He uses his frame effectively and we desperately need some size/grit in our forward group. We have far too many wallflowers and small/scrappy guys that never win enough battles to make a difference when games get physical. I've yet to see a team win a cup that didn't have a Big talented center playing big minutes offensively and defensively.

Takes the burden off of Suzuki/Caufield - We are a one line team. If that line isn't scoring, than the Montreal Canadiens aren't scoring. Cole Caufield is tied for second in overall points still, and he's only played 46 games!!! Dach is third in points and he's played 55! It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.... You put PLD in there, and all of a sudden, now there's two lines to worry about, two groups that can burn you in different ways. That means you can't load up only against one, matchups get easier because we are deeper. Suzuki becomes more of a threat. Caufield gets more open ice. It's a domino effect, in a positive way. Imagine having TWO good lines? A 1A and a 1B? It is possible, even for the Habs in this post modern dystopian lack of offensive capability era.

And can you imagine what kind of a team we'd have if we somehow won the lottery for Bedard or ended up with a guy like Adam Fantilli?

PLD isn't going to make this team a cup contender overnight, there will still be some pieces needed to be acquired either through trade or the draft, but he certainly helps expedite the rebuild by filling a major hole in our current roster composition. For once, we are in the driver's seat when it comes to a player wanting to be here, and I don't think we should waste the opportunity. I'd rather have a known quantity and top notch young player in PLD at 25 (and in his prime), than some magic beans and a hope and a prayer that some player we draft somehow is able to become as good as PLD in a few years time.

Just my 0.02$
Sounds great , now the question is what do you give up and how much is he going to cost ... could you get him for Florida s 1st , Dvorak and a little something else ? Then sign him at 7.5 / 7 years ...
 

Beendair Donedat

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Sounds great , now the question is what do you give up and how much is he going to cost ... could you get him for Florida s 1st , Dvorak and a little something else ? Then sign him at 7.5 / 7 years ...
I’d say it would have to be something like Dvorak, Barron or Harris, and the Florida 1st.

I say Barron because the Jets need RHD badly and because his brother is in the organization already but I’d prefer moving Harris.

Then I’d assume he gets the Bo Horvat/Dylan Larkin contract, 8 years by 8 million. A small hometown discount.

And I’m completely fine with that, it’s a fair deal for both sides.
 
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Expos94

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I’d say it would have to be something like Dvorak, Barron or Harris, and the Florida 1st.

I say Barron because the Jets need RHD badly and because his brother is in the organization already but I’d prefer moving Harris.

Then I’d assume he gets the Bo Horvat/Dylan Larkin contract, 8 years by 8 million. A small hometown discount.

And I’m completely fine with that, it’s a fair deal for both sides.
Barron won't be moved , we need RD also .... Harris works though. Pull the trigger 😉
 

waitin425

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So I just saw online that Laraque said on his show that he would trade Hutson in a deal for PLD.

I didn't hear that segment, but it seems Norman Flynn has some competition.

So between Flynn and Laraque:

Habs would not have Suzuki, Caufield & Hutson, but have Palmieri, Simmonds & PLD.
We are in the drivers seat for PLD. We either get him this draft for Panthers 1st + Dvorak + B+ prospect

or

we wait until UFA

Prospect wise, I'd be willing to part with Beck/Barron/Mailloux/Mesar...even Farrell. But Hutson is a Unicorn, wrapped in an enigma, sprinkled with pixie dust.
 
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Habs Halifax

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He's a 60-65 pts guy ...

I think his point range depends on the talent he is playing with. When Connor was on his line, he was above pt/game. With Connor off his line, he is around 60. It appears he's playing or dealing with a nagging injury lately

I can't stress this enough. Points come and go depending on who you play with. Dubois's value is much deeper than just points.

I think his range is 60-80 but depends on team fit and who's on his line 5/5. Also depends if he's on a good PP or bad one.
 
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Habs Halifax

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We are in the drivers seat for PLD. We either get him this draft for Panthers 1st + Dvorak + B+ prospect

or

we wait until UFA

Prospect wise, I'd be willing to part with Beck/Barron/Mailloux/Mesar...even Farrell. But Hutson is a Unicorn, wrapped in an enigma, sprinkled with pixie dust.

Watch the trade be Dvorak, Beck, and Engstrom. You never know... Gorton/Hughes might offer something but they might protect the Panthers pick and our RD's (Mailloux and Barron). I have talked a lot about having the Panthers 1st on the table but that's with less knowledge than Gorton/Hughes.

Imagine...
* Dvorak, Beck, Engstrom or Harris and maybe a 2nd rounder for Dubois
* We get Dubois signed for 8x $8M.
* Eddy is flipped to a contender at 50% retention for two 2nd rounders
* We don't win a lottery but we are able to snag Michkov or Smith
* Panthers 1st gets us Reinbacher cause we used one of the 2nd rounders from the Eddy trade to move down.

Not counting on it but that would be a good summer even if we don't win a lottery spot.

Chevy calls Gorton/Hughes cause Dubois is only willing to do sign/trade with the Habs and our reply to them is we are rebuilding man... We can't trade any of our young RD's or the Panthers 1st. This is the best we can offer and Chevy can't get better from any other team cause they know Dubois won't sign with them past he one RFA year.
 
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Vachon23

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You don't weaken the organization you are paid by. There was no need to hurt Winnipeg's leverage. What if Caufield came out and said he didn't want a longterm deal, he wanted a deal to get to UFA so he could test the market?
I prefer that he tell us that he don’t want to resign and let us getting value for him, then he does like Gaudreau and only tell them after the season when he’s UFA
 
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Habs Halifax

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I prefer that he tell us that he don’t want to resign and let us getting value for him, then he does like Gaudreau and only tell them after the season when he’s UFA

If you are a GM on any other team than the Jets or Habs and you know he won't extend past one more season, would you trade for him? Avs might but then I wonder... Who do the Avs trade and what NHL contract do they push the other way cause their futures are not that good and does the Jets really want Girard? Avs don't the much cap room to add Dubois without sending a contract the other way

They might get low balled due to the circumstance of Dubois only wanting to sign long term with the Habs and Brisson/Gorton/Hughes already have a contract in mind where Dubois will wait.

Avs offer: Girard and their late 1st
vs
Habs offer: Dvorak, Beck, Engstrom and maybe a 2nd

Our 2nd is not much different than the Avs 1st and we are offering Beck/Engstrom. Who cares about Girard and Dvorak. Girard has more value? Sure but Jets would be looking at long game and the NHL contract is only a short term piece to fill a roster hole.
 

Grand Admiral Thrawn

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We luck out and get Fantilli and then sign PLD we end up with this:

Slaf, PLD, Dach, Fantilli, Anderson, Gurianov.

That's a lot of meat on the top 9.

Add to that Guhle, Xhekaj, Eddy, Kova and we are one nasty team to play against.
 
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Vachon23

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If you are a GM on any other team than the Jets or Habs and you know he won't extend past one more season, would you trade for him? Avs might but then I wonder... Who do the Avs trade and what NHL contract do they push the other way cause their futures are not that good and does the Jets really want Girard? Avs don't the much cap room to add Dubois without sending a contract the other way

They might get low balled due to the circumstance of Dubois only wanting to sign long term with the Habs and Brisson/Gorton/Hughes already have a contract in mind where Dubois will wait.

Avs offer: Girard and their late 1st
vs
Habs offer: Dvorak, Beck, Engstrom and maybe a 2nd

Our 2nd is not much different than the Avs 1st and we are offering Beck/Engstrom. Who cares about Girard and Dvorak. Girard has more value? Sure but Jets would be looking at long game and the NHL contract is only a short term piece to fill a roster hole.
If I’m a contender ? 100 % I trade for him ! And who knows if he doesn’t want to stay if he likes it.
 

CHwest

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I prefer that he tell us that he don’t want to resign and let us getting value for him, then he does like Gaudreau and only tell them after the season when he’s a UFA
That would be wrong info. Calgary knew he was leaving, they were having a great season and were thinking cup run, that's why he wasn't traded.
 
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Ozmodiar

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PLD is Dach in 3 years of progression. PLD have just enough NHL experience to be at his peak for the next 6 years, he's an instant improvement. Bang. He's already much much better than Suzuki. PLD last 3 years : -6, -6, +2. Suzuki last 3 years -5, -29, -11.

Suzuki have trouble. I like him but he's not constant at all. He's not big enough and he doesn't skate faster than average. PLD is big, like Dach, he brings a physical presence/game Suzuki doesn't bring. Habs would be an improved team if they have different type of players and if they can be tall and strong at center. We need size with skills desperatly.
Some folks are gonna be disappointed with Dubois if we land him. Expectations are too high.

PLD is no more consistent than Suzuki. Suzuki holds a slight edge in career PTS/G, both regular season and playoffs.

+/- : you give a text book example of how this stat is used incorrectly, ignoring context. Suzuki is - 11 on a team that’s - 65. Last year when PLD was -6, his team was -5.

Also, Dach won’t take 3 years to develop. This is obvious if you watched his progress this season.
 

MXD

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That would be wrong info. Calgary knew he was leaving, they were having a great season and were thinking cup run, that's why he wasn't traded.
..And I suspect Winnipeg will do the same this summer, as it will be their best shot at anything in a LOOOOONNNG time.
 
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