Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Jeremy Roenick, Peter Forsberg and Jagr as well. Those 3 should define power forwards.

f*** no.

The traditional power forward could score goals, destroy people with hits and beat the f*** out of most of your team.

 

[Scriptor]

Why you came with that "he's not a power forward" and "people will complain he's not what we are expecting"? It's you, not me. Why you bring that to the table and by the side trying to convice it's not good to have him. That's contradiction.

Players who doesn't fit in your description of a power forward can be usefull, there are many examples and many Stanley Cups were won with those players who were almost power forwards according from your criteria. The imaginary opponent is you.

If you want to bring a point where it's not good to have PLD, find another argument than "the not a power forward".

Is O'Reilly a power forward? I'd be happy with an O'Reilly during his prime in Dubois, during his own prime.

 

[FerrisRox]

Jeremy Roenick, Peter Forsberg and Jagr as well. Those 3 should define power forwards.

How could I forget Forsberg!

I forgot Jarome Iginla too.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Is O'Reilly a power forward? I'd be happy with an O'Reilly during his prime in Dubois, during his own prime.

No.
He's not an old school, or new school power forward.

 

[HuGort]

Dubois was a beast in Flames/Jets game other night. If we go Suzuki/Dubois/Dach down the middle we be strongest at center in NHL.

 

[Forsead]

How could I forget Forsberg!

I forgot Jarome Iginla too.

Gary Roberts, Owen Nolan, Bertuzzi, Keith Primeau, Bill Guerin, Kevin Stevens, Shayne Corson, young Jason Arnott.

 

[Scriptor]

Gary Roberts, Owen Nolan, Bertuzzi, Keith Primeau, Bill Guerin, Kevin Stevens, Shayne Corson, young Jason Arnott.

See, I never saw Shane Corson as a Power Forward? A real pain in the ass for the other team, dirty player, actually (but faced the music when he was called on it), but not a Power Forwards, IMO.

Dubois was a beast in Flames/Jets game other night. If we go Suzuki/Dubois/Dach down the middle we be strongest at center in NHL.

I don't know about strongest, but strong as hell, with no real drop off from line to line at C.

That would make for a talented and balanced top-9, something hard to face in the playoffs, IMO.

 

[Forsead]

Dubois is a good player, versatile, big and physical. IMO the main advantage of getting him as soon as possible, is that he would be key for Suzuki to become a 75-80 pts center.

Dubois is the kind of guy that will get 25-30 goals, 65 pts in any situation/team he will be put. He's a real threat thst would be such beneficial to Suzuki. I don't want to replicate what was done to Koivu, by never having another real threat at center on the team.

 

[SlafySZN]

Dubois is a good player, versatile, big and physical. IMO the main advantage of getting him as soon as possible, is that he would be key for Suzuki to become a 75-80 pts center.

Dubois is the kind of guy that will get 25-30 goals, 65 pts in any situation/team he will be put. He's a real threat thst would be such beneficial to Suzuki. I don't want to replicate what was done to Koivu, by never having another real threat at center on the team.

Dach is not dead as far as i know and will continue to develop.

Plus the habs are rebuilding, they might draft a center this summer or the summer after.

It’s not like it’s ‘’Dubois’’ or nothing.

 

[SlafCaufield]

i would not trade for Dubois,, if he wants to come here as a UFA fine but id be worried that he will be another drouin for us where there is so much hype and it doesnt work out

or similar to how huberdeau is looking in CGY,, thank god we dodged that bullet

 

[Rapala]

Dubois was a beast in Flames/Jets game other night. If we go Suzuki/Dubois/Dach down the middle we be strongest at center in NHL.

Really in what way because his line was totally neutered. Running into a few guys and getting up their dander is NOT BEAST MODE.

 

[FerrisRox]

See, I never saw Shane Corson as a Power Forward? A real pain in the ass for the other team, dirty player, actually (but faced the music when he was called on it), but not a Power Forwards, IMO.

Shayne Corson in his first stint in Montreal was undoubtably a power forward. When he returned for his second stretch, he no longer played a power forward game.

Dubois is a good player, versatile, big and physical. IMO the main advantage of getting him as soon as possible, is that he would be key for Suzuki to become a 75-80 pts center.

I think the key to Suzuki becoming a 75-80 point centre is a healthy Cole Caufield on his wing.

 

[Beer and Chips]

The cost in prospects is my only real problem with acquiring PLD, picks are fine. Dvorak, Anderson, are expendable prospects aren't. If Beck is the deal breaker then it doesn't get done, if you don't have faith in your picks then you were wrong.

 

[Scriptor]

Dach is not dead as far as i know and will continue to develop.

Plus the habs are rebuilding, they might draft a center this summer or the summer after.

It’s not like it’s ‘’Dubois’’ or nothing.

It's definitely not like it's Dubois or nothing at C, but, independently of that, Dubois fits in the top-6 as a power winger and an insurance policy at C in case of injury.

I don't get how, after countless years of not having a #1C, or a top end 2nd line C, even, Hab fans look allergic to having more than two top-6 Cs, even if we are talking 1A, 1B, 1C with three of them?

The deeper at C, the stronger your offense, the better your D.

We would then need two play driving Ds to fuel the offense even more.

That's a pretty strong backbone to lay your hopes on for performing come playoff time, IMO.

We're not put of the woods if we don't get stronger at C, or, as they say in French, on est pas sorti Dubois.

Can you point those posts out please?



What an astoundingly stupid comment. Please breakdown the similarities. You sound like a superstitious bigot.

I don't know if he is superstitious, but he clearly sounds like an enthusiastic bigot.

 

[SlafySZN]

It's definitely not like it's Dubois or nothing at C, but, independently of that, Dubois fits in the top-6 as a power winger and an insurance policy at C in case of injury.

I don't get how, after countless years of not having a #1C, or a top end 2nd line C, even, Hab fans look allergic to having more than two top-6 Cs, even if we are talking 1A, 1B, 1C with three of them?

The deeper at C, the stronger your offense, the better your D.

We would then need two play driving Ds to fuel the offense even more.

That's a pretty strong backbone to lay your hopes on for performing come playoff time, IMO.

We're not put of the woods if we don't get stronger at C, or, as they say in French, on est pas sorti Dubois.


I don't know if he is superstitious, but he clearly sounds like an enthusiastic bigot.

I have never said that. I even said, the sentence after that the habs might draft a center this summer or in the near futur.

I want the habs to have a true 1C or elite player. Trading for 60 points players will get them further of finally drafting that.

 

[Scriptor]

i would not trade for Dubois,, if he wants to come here as a UFA fine but id be worried that he will be another drouin for us where there is so much hype and it doesnt work out

or similar to how huberdeau is looking in CGY,, thank god we dodged that bullet

There was zero dodging of that bullet. Hughes and Hugo would not have made such a HUGE trade for a 29-yr-old as the face of the franchise if they were looking to become perennial contenders, as they stated.

Give them some credit, FFS.

Dubois is another story because of the age bracket he is in VS the age bracket of our current young core and the role he would fill as, potentially, a big-bodied, two-way, 2nd line C with remaining upside at a much more reasonable Cap hit than Huberdeau!

I seriously doubt that HuGo would have stepped into a replacement Carey Price contract situation - 8 years at a 10.5M Cap hit for a player that would be playing that contract out in his 37th birthday.

To some, it's dodging a bullet if we avoid acquiring a talented francophone player. It may not be the case for you, but the abundance of francophone players we are dodging, or should be dodging bullet with makes me wonder sometimes on this and other anglophone forums.

Don't get me wrong, there are also francophones (on anglophone and francophone forums) who aren't fans of Dubois.

To me, it's not that someone isn't a fan of Dubois as a player, but, rather, that they can regularly not be fans of possible francophone acquisitions that is unsettling.

And sometimes, as is a particularity of Quebec, francophones are more Leary of francophone players coming to Montreal than anglophones.

There's fun hating francophone players for everyone, is all I am saying. Okay fearing what will happen if they are acquired (sounds better than hating), rather...

Really in what way because his line was totally neutered. Running into a few guys and getting up their dander is NOT BEAST MODE.

Dubois was the best player on the Jets team that night and looked like one of the few who cared.

Certainly goes against the narrative that he is soft, disinterested, selling out his team mates, etc...

WIN has a few players not totally on board and, Dubois, on the ice, isn't one of them.

 

[Scriptor]

Shayne Corson in his first stint in Montreal was undoubtably a power forward. When he returned for his second stretch, he no longer played a power forward game.



I think the key to Suzuki becoming a 75-80 point centre is a healthy Cole Caufield on his wing.

Caufield - Suzuki, as a duo, will certainly help, but they still need a puck-possession beast to get Suzuki to a PPG range, IMO.

With the right complement to that duo, whether it is Dach, Roy, Heineman, a 2023 draft pick, down the line, or Dubois, even, Suzuki could likely become an 80-90 point C and be considered elite, IMHO.

Yes you read right if you figured out that I mean Suzuki won't score 90 points by himself and, if that's the kind of player -- one that will score 90 points by himself -- we're delirious as fans.

 

[Scriptor]

I have never said that. I even said, the sentence after that the habs might draft a center this summer or in the near futur.

I want the habs to have a true 1C or elite player. Trading for 60 points players will get them further of finally drafting that.

Really? How so?

I'm trying to understand how that would prevent the Habs to pick an elite player with their own draft pick (I think that the odds are significantly lower with the FLA pick), or how they would be prevented on developing Slafkovsky, or Roy, into an elite player?

Unless all your hopes rest in sucking for several more years and picking in the top-5 over and over again, leaving it all up to providence that there will be elite players for us to pick when we do, I don't see how trading for Dubois who, I would argue, has a floor as a 25-goal, 60 point player, rather than being a definitive 60-point player and nothing else, will prevent us from acquiring an elite player?

So, if your brilliant plan isn't a full out tank and wasting precious years off Suzuki, Caufield and Dach, please let me know what it is.

If it's a full out membership to tank nation, we'll agree to disagree, with me certain you have no actual plan for the rebuild and aren't looking at the big picture.

I understand that some believe that you should tank until you land a generational player and some elite counterparts and, then, only then, should you try to actually build the complete team.

That just wastes precious years from the generational and elite players instead, because it is a team sport and lacking other components won't get you a Cup either.

Just look at both Matthews(25/26) and McDavid (26/27), plus Marner (25/26), plus Draisaitl (27/28) and see how they are legitimately in a situation to ask themselves if their GM knows how to build a winner as they approach UFA status (1 year left for Matthews, 3 years left for McDavid, 2 years left for Marner, 2 years left for Draisaitl).

If Toronto and Edmonton don't sort things out, despite the fans' enthusiasm with all their dazzle dazzle during regular season games, it's unclear that these players will extend with either team when their contracts are up, unless they feel to blame for the lack of success and desperately want to prove that legacy wrong?

 

[Beer and Chips]

Finding Mr. X could define this core's future, imo.

 

[le_sean]

i would not trade for Dubois,, if he wants to come here as a UFA fine but id be worried that he will be another drouin for us where there is so much hype and it doesnt work out

or similar to how huberdeau is looking in CGY,, thank god we dodged that bullet

You cannot compare him to Drouin. Drouin didn’t even want to specifically come to Montreal. He was just being a whiny baby because he got benched by Tampa. They aren’t similar as players whatsoever either.

 

[The Great Weal]

You cannot compare him to Drouin. Drouin didn’t even want to specifically come to Montreal. He was just being a whiny baby because he got benched by Tampa. They aren’t similar as players whatsoever either.

The post also makes no sense. So if Dubois is the same as Drouin in that he won't work out here, why is it "fine" for him to come as a UFA?

 

[le_sean]

The post also makes no sense. So if Dubois is the same as Drouin in that he won't work out here, why is it "fine" for him to come as a UFA?

Exactly. If he’s not worthy enough to trade a few simple assets for to get a year earlier, he’s probably not someone you want for free either. Cap space is the most important asset.

I look at someone like Dach who saw the Canadiens believed in his potential and gave a significant asset to get him and he’s responded in kind. I think we take players feelings for granted at times. I like my job, but if they don’t show that they value me, I’ll go somewhere else.

 

[Habs]

if you've been a Habs fan long enough, you know that trading for, or signing, a 70+ point player turns him into a 50 pt player in Montreal. Its the curse of Pierre Turgeon, it never fails, we can't have nice things. Is it the system? probably. Offense never flourishes under the Molson family, history doesn't lie. If McDavid were in Montreal he'd probably be a 80pt player at best, it's as if the inner workings of this club detest offense.

even if we have players on the verge, they continuously get hurt so the medical system here won't allow a player to flourish anyways. Tell me I'm wrong, they are traded away instead of built around. the team hasn't had a top 10 point producer in over 35 years. Disgusting

 

[le_sean]

if you've been a Habs fan long enough, you know that trading for, or signing, a 70+ point player turns him into a 50 pt player in Montreal. Its the curse of Pierre Turgeon, it never fails, we can't have nice things. Is it the system? probably. Offense never flourishes under the Molson family, history doesn't lie. If McDavid were in Montreal he'd probably be a 80pt player at best, it's as if the inner workings of this club detest offense.

even if we have players on the verge, they continuously get hurt so the medical system here won't allow a player to flourish anyways. Tell me I'm wrong, they are traded away instead of built around. the team hasn't had a top 10 point producer in over 35 years. Disgusting

Kovalev had his warts but he didn’t exactly regress offensively in Montreal. You have to want the spotlight. Guys like Pacioretty, Gomez, Turgeon were loners that just seemed to play hockey because they happened to be good at it.

 

[Habs]

Kovalev had his warts but he didn’t exactly regress offensively in Montreal. You have to want the spotlight. Guys like Pacioretty, Gomez, Turgeon were loners that just seemed to play hockey because they happened to be good at it.

Perfect example - they had a true sniper and never fulfilled that potential by surrounding him with elite talent. Could have been a top 10 , the Habs decided to let him hit a substandard ceiling instead of magnify that raw skill.