Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[WeThreeKings]

I am somewhat worried we don’t have enough available roster spots next year to play some of the prospects even after getting rid or Drouin and Armia or Hoffman. Now is an an opportune time to move out some pieces and upgrade. If it means landing PDL a year early then I am all for it.

I think you'd move Dvorak in the PLD trade, and then I would imagine that Anderson gets dealt for that 3rd 1st, allowing us to use one of those 1sts as the centerpiece to get Dubois and still have 2 firsts to use at the draft table.

You've only reduced your roster spot by 1 in aggregate there, but then Hoffman is on his final year so they can find a creative solution to that. Armia and Gallagher is dead weight we will have to navigate but I think you can use Armia as a 13th forward at this point.

 

[sandviper]

So many parallels with the Drouin situation here it spooks me. French Canadian head case that the fans just absolutely have to have because, well because he is French. Not a good situation at all.

I don’t see it. Drouin was upset about usage and ice time and didn't want to report to the AHL. He pouted and eventually Tampa shipped him out. Immature? I’d say yes, but he‘s not really shown that behaviour with the Habs.

He’s under-performed perhaps, certain showed long stretches of not being motivated but he’s never quit on us. Also, to be frank, the term head case I really don’t find appropriate given what he actually went through.

Don’t get me wrong, good riddance to Drouin as a player at the end of the season. I wish him well as a person though and do hope he can find another team and finish out his career better than it will end in Montreal.

As for PLD, yes, he had “the shift” and regardless of what was going on in Columbus, I wish he handled it differently. However, that was one game really and in Winnipeg, he’s seem to be a good soldier. He has not said once he wants out. He may not want to stay, but that’s not the same at all.

Anyhow, my point really is their situate not alike at all. One was unhappy and wanted out, the other simply may explore free agency and the media took what his agent said and made a fire out of it.

 

[CHwest]

Discusting anti French comment.

You compare Dubois and Drouin....wowwww

It is not anti French, the parallel is there. I have read comments on this very thread that people want him "because" he is French. Not my words but others.

 

[Benstheman]

Dach and Dubois together would make me have a emotion.

Oh yeah. That's definately how i see things if PLD is coming over. Perfect linemates.

 

[Ezpz]

Just looking at the free agent crop this year.. Dubois is the only thing available to us if we're actually trying to improve. I was 99-1 against re-signing Drouin but it may actually happen. We've got about 11 regulars if you include Ylonen and RHP for next year.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Hoffman-Dach-Slaf
Ylonen-Dvo-RHP
Gally-Evans-??

I don't think Gurinov is a lock to be signed. I don't think Farrell is getting a spot out of camp. I am not sure Heinemen or others are locks.

Age-wise no good UFAs fit our timeline. Barbashev might be the best pickup option but is he worth giving an expensive contract to? Not really. Honestly I'd consider just re-signing Monahan and Drouin to one-year deals if Dubois isn't possible.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Just looking at the free agent crop this year.. Dubois is the only thing available to us if we're actually trying to improve. I was 99-1 against re-signing Drouin but it may actually happen. We've got about 11 regulars if you include Ylonen and RHP for next year.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Hoffman-Dach-Slaf
Ylonen-Dvo-RHP
Gally-Evans-??

I don't think Gurinov is a lock to be signed. I don't think Farrell is getting a spot out of camp. I am not sure Heinemen or others are locks.

Age-wise no good UFAs fit our timeline. Barbashev might be the best pickup option but is he worth giving an expensive contract to? Not really. Honestly I'd consider just re-signing Monahan and Drouin to one-year deals if Dubois isn't possible.

They will never and I mean never, re-sign Jonathan Drouin. He's gone.

You're missing Armia and Pezzetta in your line-up, as well.

Then they'll want to give a conceivable path forward for someone like Farrell and Heineman to make the team.

 

[Ezpz]

They will never and I mean never, re-sign Jonathan Drouin. He's gone.

You're missing Armia and Pezzetta in your line-up, as well.

Then they'll want to give a conceivable path forward for someone like Farrell and Heineman to make the team.

I did forget Armia. I think of Pitlick/Pezz as 13/14/AHL material. I just think it's dangerous to walk into the season with 12 NHL-quality forwards when two are rookies who are performing well in the lame duck portion of the season. Slaf wasn't ready for the NHL this year, will he be ready at training camp or will they send him to Laval?

I also am hoping they've got a plan to send out Hoffman. I really feel they won't want to gift spots. If Farrell and Heineman make the team, it will be because they have outplayed someone.

I still feel like trading some of the bubble prospects like Ylonen and a good roster piece with a pick for Dubois would be better for the team. Anderson is uniquely good for Winnipeg because nobody wants to sign there and his deal is locked in for a long time.

I have to say every time I open capfriendly and see Gallagher's deal I vomit a little.

 

[MXD]

Hoffman and Armia both strike me as players who shouldn't and won't prevent the team from improving on the long term by virtue of occupying a roster spot.

And not acquiring PLD due to a lack of roster spot when Ylonen occupies one roster spot is super backwards as well.

 

[Rapala]

Dubois didn't hit from behind (shoulder-to-shoulder contact and not much of an intent to hit anyway, you can see Dubois paid some attention not to hit too hard) and a D would never dance on 1 foot like Anderson was doing there.

The only thing that happened in this situation is Dubois "being big and fast", and Anderson didn't want to give up in a situation he was going to lose, he should have been smarter. Not Dubois.

Yeah so the fact that he shoved him in the back on his number with his elbow and forearm had no bearing on the outcome? There was never a question of any other contact because as you pointed out there wasn't any. It was a reckless shove from behind on a player in a vulnerable position. The last angle showed us what sent him flying and where that energy was released.

 

[FerrisRox]

His definition of a power forward are Todd Bertuzzi and Milan Lucic. It stops there.

Gordie Howe, Keith Tkachuk, Tim Kerr, Cam Neely, Eric Lindros, Clark Gilles, Kevin Stevens, Rick Tocchet, Chris Kreider, Matt Tkachuk, Mark Messier, John LeClair, Scott Hartnell, Alex Ovechkin, Brady Tkachuk, Brendan Shanahan, Terry O'Reilly and Johan Franzen off the top of my head. Early Wendel Clark would qualify as well.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Gordie Howe, Keith Tkachuk, Tim Kerr, Cam Neely, Eric Lindros, Clark Gilles, Kevin Stevens, Rick Tocchet, Chris Kreider, Matt Tkachuk, Mark Messier, John LeClair, Scott Hartnell, Alex Ovechkin, Brady Tkachuk, Brendan Shanahan, Terry O'Reilly and Johan Franzen off the top of my head. Early Wendel Clark would qualify as well.

The list should include more names, including PLD and even Josh Anderson and Erik Cole. Sorry but between you and hockey experts at TSN, ESPN and RDS, I prefer the salary paid hockey experts.

 

[FerrisRox]

The list should include more names, including PLD and even Josh Anderson and Erik Cole. Sorry but between you and hockey experts at TSN, ESPN and RDS, I prefer the salary paid hockey experts.

Were you under the impression that I wanted you to acquiesce to my opinions?

Were you under the impression that I wanted you to favour me over your "hockey experts?"

How did you arrive at this bizarre conclusion?

All I said was that I didn't consider Dubois a "power forward" and I think a lot of people that aren't overly familiar with his game were going to be quite surprised if the Canadiens acquired him and they were expecting a player with a power game.

I don't have the faintest idea why this appears to upset you so much.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

It is not anti French, the parallel is there. I have read comments on this very thread that people want him "because" he is French. Not my words but others.

They probably wrote "and also he is french" to please the franco fans. I doubt they wrote they want him mainly because he's french (we should say quebecois, french is in the old continent). And even if some wrote this, just ignore it. It should not influence your personal opinion.

But anyway, the way you wrote it was a bad parallel comparing Dubois with Drouin, without any slight difference. After all these pages of discussion you came with that short horrible post. Sorry to disagree but it was anti-quebecois. You should apologise. If you were a bird, you would have lost almost all your feathers and not be able to fly until they grow again.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Were you under the impression that I wanted you to acquiesce to my opinions?

Were you under the impression that I wanted you to favour me over your "hockey experts?"

How did you arrive at this bizarre conclusion?

All I said was that I didn't consider Dubois a "power forward" and I think a lot of people that aren't overly familiar with his game were going to be quite surprised if the Canadiens acquired him and they were expecting a player with a power game.

I don't have the faintest idea why this appears to upset you so much.

I'm not expecting PLD to fit in the power forward a la Keith Tkachuk. Habs doesn't absolutely need that kind of player. PLD plays a softer version of the power forward you refer to and I'm confortable with it.

 

[Rapala]

I think you'd move Dvorak in the PLD trade, and then I would imagine that Anderson gets dealt for that 3rd 1st, allowing us to use one of those 1sts as the centerpiece to get Dubois and still have 2 firsts to use at the draft table.

You've only reduced your roster spot by 1 in aggregate there, but then Hoffman is on his final year so they can find a creative solution to that. Armia and Gallagher is dead weight we will have to navigate but I think you can use Armia as a 13th forward at this point.

Any trade for Dubois will have plenty of moving parts and may have to include more than one team. So a creative trade using Anderson as the centerpiece for that coveted first might allow us to include someone like Dvorsky and another (b) pick/prospect. Winnipeg gets player X who fills a need and one of our firsts which will be determined by the value of player X. I don't see a direct path either team would be comfortable with.

 

[nhlfan9191]

They probably wrote "and also he is french" to please the franco fans. I doubt they wrote they want him mainly because he's french (we should say quebecois, french is in the old continent). And even if some wrote this, just ignore it. It should not influence your personal opinion.

But anyway, the way you wrote it was a bad parallel comparing Dubois with Drouin, without any slight difference. After all these pages of discussion you came with that short horrible post. Sorry to disagree but it was anti-quebecois. You should apologise. If you were a bird, you would have lost almost all your feathers and not be able to fly until they grow again.

You’re taking it as a person attack on Quebecois. The reality is any French Canadian that comes into the organization with any kind of real expectations is going to be under the microscope 10 fold of what any other player is. That’s just the way it is here. When people bring up Drouin, it’s not comparing them as hockey players. It’s screening to see if there’s any characteristics that may not make them a good fit in a fish bowl. Drouin had his falling out with Yzerman and I remember debating with people in 2017 that it could end bad if he didn’t change his attitude quick. And there’s naturally concern with Dubois over multiple things that have happened in the past. If you’re committing to a player 7-8-9 years at a high salary, we better be sure he isn’t a snowflake because he’ll be eaten a live if he is regardless of how talented he is.

 

[Guy Larose]

Any trade for Dubois will have plenty of moving parts and may have to include more than one team. So a creative trade using Anderson as the centerpiece for that coveted first might allow us to include someone like Dvorsky and another (b) pick/prospect. Winnipeg gets player X who fills a need and one of our firsts which will be determined by the value of player X. I don't see a direct path either team would be comfortable with.

I believe Hughes when he says he doesn't want to trade Anderson, and I believe that reason is to have him play with PLD, or at least have these big types that can play, on the roster.

 

[Rapala]

I'm not expecting PLD to fit in the power forward a la Keith Tkachuk. Habs doesn't absolutely need that kind of player. PLD plays a softer version of the power forward you refer to and I'm confortable with it.

The bolded doesn't make sense. If his name isn't Pierre Luc Dubois? The fact is we absolutely do need that kind of player and if one was available who fit our window HuGo would certainly be making an attempt to acquire that asset.

 

[SOLR]

Yeah so the fact that he shoved him in the back on his number with his elbow and forearm had no bearing on the outcome? There was never a question of any other contact because as you pointed out there wasn't any. It was a reckless shove from behind on a player in a vulnerable position. The last angle showed us what sent him flying and where that energy was released.

We can go on and on with this. But as a coach, if my player would put themselves in that spot (Anderson), he's not playing next game. It's a dumb play. He just had to let Dubois go, re-accelerate and fight behind the net like every D in the world do in the same spot. This was an offensive guy with poor comprehension of his physical limitations.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

You’re taking it as a person attack on Quebecois. The reality is any French Canadian that comes into the organization with any kind of real expectations is going to be under the microscope 10 fold of what any other player is. That’s just the way it is here. When people bring up Drouin, it’s not comparing them as hockey players. It’s screening to see if there’s any characteristics that may not make them a good fit in a fish bowl. Drouin had his falling out with Yzerman and I remember debating with people in 2017 that it could end bad if he didn’t change his attitude quick. And there’s naturally concern with Dubois over multiple things with Dubois in the past. If you’re committing to a player 7-8-9 years at a high salary, we better be sure he isn’t a snowflake because he’ll be eaten a live if he is regardless of how talented he is.

I know this and we are all a part of the pressure that a player have to live. You as a person and poster on this board is a part of the people putting too much pressure on a player. I know francos themselves put a lot of pressure on francos players, more than any other ethnic. I'm surprised a franco like PLD wants to play here, knowing the pressure he will be facing. But he showed he can be a legit nhler making 60 pts. He have the size, the speed and the skills so why not. To me he's just a 6'4" nhl player playing center and wing at the right age and the right salary and he is what Habs need to built a better team.

In worst case if that doesn't work out, he will be a good tradable player. But he will be a good fit here.

 

[Rapala]

I believe Hughes when he says he doesn't want to trade Anderson, and I believe that reason is to have him play with PLD, or at least have these big types that can play, on the roster.

You may be right it's very possible he realizes we don't have the capital to garner that 3rd 1st. One of the frustrating aspects of this rebuild is the lack of quality movable parts. This is one of the reasons I had hoped we would be in the very bottom.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

The bolded doesn't make sense. If his name isn't Pierre Luc Dubois? The fact is we absolute do need that kind of player and if one was available who fit our window HuGo would certainly be making an attempt to acquire that asset.

32 teams wants that kind of player. They are rare. Did the GMs of the league just woke up a morning telling to themselves oh I want a power forward like Mark Messier or Keith Tkachuk? They want that all the time, nothing new. If you snubb power forwards who plays a little softer, then what can I tell you?

 

[Rapala]

We can go on and on with this. But as a coach, if my player would put themselves in that spot (Anderson), he's not playing next game. It's a dumb play. He just had to let Dubois go, re-accelerate and fight behind the net like every D in the world do in the same spot. This was an offensive guy with poor comprehension of his physical limitations.

It comes down to the ill advised shove. That was what got penalized nothing more nothing less. And yes as a coach you would hope your player could handle that situation differently. Andersson put himself in a vulnerable position PLD simply took advantage of it when maybe he shouldn't have. If that play was two feet closer to the boards we wouldn't even be talking about it. Fast game maybe PLD did it by accident but He comes across as a player who is in full control of his body and knows exactly what he is doing.

 

[Rapala]

32 teams wants that kind of player. They are rare. Did the GMs of the league just woke up a morning telling to themselves oh I want a power forward like Mark Messier or Keith Tkachuk? They want that all the time, nothing new. If you snubb power forwards who plays a little softer, then what can I tell you?

But why would you say we don't need that type of player?

32 teams wants that kind of player. They are rare. Did the GMs of the league just woke up a morning telling to themselves oh I want a power forward like Mark Messier or Keith Tkachuk? They want that all the time, nothing new. If you snubb power forwards who plays a little softer, then what can I tell you?

This Whole Power Forward thing got blown out proportion. The gentleman pointed out he didn't think PLD was your prototypical "Power Forward."
and anyone thinking he was who aren't familiar with his game may be disappointed. I agreed and went on to decribed him as a forward with power. To say that we don't need that type of player is wrong and to say that we are snubbing PLD is also wrong. He will fill a void and that is what team building is all about.

 

[CHwest]

They probably wrote "and also he is french" to please the franco fans. I doubt they wrote they want him mainly because he's french (we should say quebecois, french is in the old continent). And even if some wrote this, just ignore it. It should not influence your personal opinion.

But anyway, the way you wrote it was a bad parallel comparing Dubois with Drouin, without any slight difference. After all these pages of discussion you came with that short horrible post. Sorry to disagree but it was anti-quebecois. You should apologise. If you were a bird, you would have lost almost all your feathers and not be able to fly until they grow again.

Anti Quebecois? You are being overly sensitive.