Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

“Would you rather that the Habs trade for Dubois or instead wait and try to sign him when he becomes


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jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
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It's all contingent on the results of the lottery.

If Montreal somehow manage to win the lottery, then I think you say thanks but no thanks.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Slafkovsky-Dach-Bedard
Armia-Dvorak-Gallagher
RHP-Evans-Ylonen
(Hoffman if he's still around)

There's no room in that lineup for PLD.

If Montreal doesn't win the lottery, then you investigate a sign and trade. The Jets have to take at least one contract back. Armia/Hoffman would be the logical choices from our perspective. Aging players being phased out that don't have NMC/NTCs on their contract.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Dubois-Dach-Slafkovsky
Armia/Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher
RHP-Evans-Ylonen
Man, if we win the lottery, you do the opposite, you get get PLD and fast.

your forward group is now

Suzuki
Caufield
Slaf
Dubois
Bedard/Fantilli
Dach
Anderson
Gurianov
Farrell/RHP

That’s a top nine I’m feeling really good about

jettisson Dvorak and Hoffman
 

Habs Halifax

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Like I said, insiders said that whatever trade talks the Habs had with the Jets last year it died before the draft.

What insiders? Sorry, I don't believe talks died before the draft.

I think we could move Anderson without taking salary back. Moving Dvo without take salary back may be harder. But if we landed Dubois, I'd be willing to give Dvo away for free.

What would be your plan? Move Dach to be a puck possession winger or play Suzuki, Dubois, Dach as the 3 centers where they all get extra time on the PP units?
 

morhilane

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What insiders?
I think it was the Jets guy I can't spell the name off. The same one who leaked the Dubois didn't want to sign long term there last year.

I actually don't keep a list of insiders and their rumors and it's been a year so...
 

26Mats

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What insiders? Sorry, I don't believe talks died before the draft.



What would be your plan? Move Dach to be a puck possession winger or play Suzuki, Dubois, Dach as the 3 centers where they all get extra time on the PP units?
Play all 3 of Dach, Suzuki, and Dubois at center, give Dach and Dubois some double shifts at center, and have them all on the PP.

I want all our young wingers playing with better offensive C's than Dvorak, so it would be great to go Suzuki-Dach-Dubois down the middle. If he were to stay, I even think Dvorak could he a better offensive and defensive winger than guys like Gurianov amd maybe even Josh Anderson.
 

Habs Halifax

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Man, if we win the lottery, you do the opposite, you get get PLD and fast.

your forward group is now

Suzuki
Caufield
Slaf
Dubois
Bedard/Fantilli
Dach
Anderson
Gurianov
Farrell/RHP

That’s a top nine I’m feeling really good about

jettisson Dvorak and Hoffman

One area I wonder about is cap management.
* Suzuki signed and Caufield will be soon. I'm expecting Caufield to be around $7.5M - $8M range.
* Dubois signed around $8M as well.
* Slaf and Guhle for 2 more years on ELC then bridge or long term extension?
* Dach for 3 more years and then massive raise?
* Bedard or Fantilli for 3 more ELC years and then massive raise
* Xhekaj for one more season and then bridge?

Gallagher has 4 more years left which would overlap all of Slaf, Guhle, Dach, and Bedard/Fantilli. And also Slaf/Guhle new contracts. Nice problems to have and the cap is expected to grow, but so hard to predict. We might have to give a 1st to unload Gallagher for his last year.

The good news is so many of the B+ or B prospects will filter into Laval and start their ELC later hopefully. So it might be important not to rush guys like Roy and Hutson for example.

If we add Dubois, and get Bedard or Fantilli. Imagine having to extend both Dach and Bedard/Fantilli when Gallagher is still on the payroll for one more season?
 
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Rapala

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Naw, upfront is in shambles. Outside of caufield/Suzuki, there isn’t a quality forward on the team. This is a bottom 10 team quite easily imo.
Watching every Tom Dick and Harry playing with Suzuki and not knowing how to utilize his strengths is telling. In many games I watched this season Ghule had better chemistry with Suzuki than his wingers. That game without the puck Marty preaches hasn't improved in most of our wingers cases. So much work to be done on the wings without a doubt. The placeholders are killing us.
 

Habs Halifax

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Play all 3 of Dach, Suzuki, and Dubois at center, give Dach and Dubois some double shifts at center, and have them all on the PP.

I want all our young wingers playing with better offensive C's than Dvorak, so it would be great to go Suzuki-Dach-Dubois down the middle. If he were to stay, I even think Dvorak could he a better offensive and defensive winger than guys like Gurianov amd maybe even Josh Anderson.

I'd be open to both including Dvorak in the Dubois trade or retaining him to play 3C where Dach is the puck possession winger who can play center if you need him too.

What's your center depth after Suzuki, Dubois, Dach and without Dvorak? Evans? Who else? You need more than 4 centers bud. Who's moving to center if you get an injury?
 

26Mats

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I'd be open to both including Dvorak in the Dubois trade or retaining him to play 3C where Dach is the puck possession winger who can play center if you need him too.

What's your center depth after Suzuki, Dubois, Dach and without Dvorak? Evans? Who else? You need more than 4 centers bud. Who's moving to center if you get an injury?
Evans is 4c. I'd keep Belzile and Tierny in Laval. But yeah, that's one of the great things of having a guy like Dvo on the wing. In case of injury, he can move back to center. And Dvo can take the draws until Dach no longer struggles with that.
 

Habs Halifax

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Evans is 4c. I'd keep Belzile and Tierny in Laval. But yeah, that's one of the great things of having a guy like Dvo on the wing. In case of injury, he can move back to center. And Dvo can take the draws until Dach no longer struggles with that.

Not how I would do it but I can understand your approach. If Dvorak is offloaded in either the Dubois trade or another trade, I would bring back Monahan to play 3C with Dach playing as a puck possession winger on either of Suzuki or Dubois's line. Slaf would actually be in a good spot with Monahan on the 3C line and they did perform well together when we seen the little sample size this season. Slaf could play with any of the top 3 lines depending on how much he improves next season.

Next question. What line-up do you have if we get Bedard or Fantilli? Who's playing center then if we still trade for Dubois? Or are you the type that says we don't need Dubois if we get Bedard or Fantilli?
 

26Mats

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Not how I would do it but I can understand your approach. If Dvorak is offloaded in either the Dubois trade or another trade, I would bring back Monahan to play 3C with Dach playing as a puck possession winger on either of Suzuki or Dubois's line. Slaf would actually be in a good spot with Monahan on the 3C line and they did perform well together when we seen the little sample size this season. Slaf could play with any of the top 3 lines depending on how much he improves next season.

Next question. What line-up do you have if we get Bedard or Fantilli? Who's playing center then if we still trade for Dubois? Or are you the type that says we don't need Dubois if we get Bedard or Fantilli?

I would love Monahan as 3c if healthy. But since we can't count on him being healthy, I wouldn't make any plans around it. I'd sign him to a cheap 1 year deal though...

If we get 1 of Bedard or Fantilli, I see how they do in camp. But I have 3 of Suzuki, Dach, Dubois, Bedard/Fantilli as my top 3c's, with Dvo on the wing if he's still here. I'd definitely still get Dubois because we're getting him for less than we're giving up and he can play wing.
 

Rapala

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Like I said, insiders said that whatever trade talks the Habs had with the Jets last year it died before the draft.
It was also said they were "Serious" So if your timing is correct the ask was too high and Kent looked for a different solution (plan B,) I was scoffed at when I suggested this the day of the draft. Your scenario would indicate it probably was. Had we closed with Dubois we certainly weren't going after Dach. :dunno:
 

Habs Halifax

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I would love Monahan as 3c if healthy. But since we can't count on him being healthy, I wouldn't make any plans around it. I'd sign him to a cheap 1 year deal though...

If we get 1 of Bedard or Fantilli, I see how they do in camp. But I have 3 of Suzuki, Dach, Dubois, Bedard/Fantilli as my top 3c's, with Dvo on the wing if he's still here. I'd definitely still get Dubois because we're getting him for less than we're giving up and he can play wing.

Yeah, but Dach is there playing as a puck possession winger on either Suzuki or Dubois line and you just play him at 3C if Monahan gets hurt cause that was your plan anyways. How do you not comprehend that and then say we can't make plans around it? Not to be nasty but this deserves... :loony:

I guess we can re visit what the roster would be if we get one of Bedard or Fantilli. If Dvorak is still with us, he can play 4C with Evans as depth.

I'm not paying futures to unload Dvorak when we don't need cap space. I am open to moving him for whatever we can get and then keeping Monahan. Guys like Anderson, Monahan, and Dubois are nice to have with so much youth on the roster.
 

Leon Lucius Black

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Play all 3 of Dach, Suzuki, and Dubois at center, give Dach and Dubois some double shifts at center, and have them all on the PP.

I want all our young wingers playing with better offensive C's than Dvorak, so it would be great to go Suzuki-Dach-Dubois down the middle. If he were to stay, I even think Dvorak could he a better offensive and defensive winger than guys like Gurianov amd maybe even Josh Anderson.

The nice thing about Dach/Dubois is they are versatile and are effective at both C and the wing. You can line up all 3 at centre and if we are down a goal in the third you can always move one of them up with Suzuki to try and create offense.
 
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Runner77

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The game changer could be a player not drafted in the first 2 OA. Pastrnak and Kucherov are good examples. Bergeron and Marchand too. It takes a good scout team and a bit of luck too. But in the mean time, building a team taking care in selecting each player one by one is not a bad way of doing it. Having 5 players producing 60 pts is not bad. And they could be entertaining to watch too.
Yes but not as much fun as having that elite talent. That player doesn’t need to come from the top picks although that’s usually where your best percentage of landing one, comes from. As you said, Pasta is an example of finding that gem later, as is Aho. Maybe we get lucky one of these drafts and get a late one too.
 

26Mats

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Yeah, but Dach is there playing as a puck possession winger on either Suzuki or Dubois line and you just play him at 3C if Monahan gets hurt cause that was your plan anyways. How do you not comprehend that and then say we can't make plans around it? Not to be nasty but this deserves... :loony:

I guess we can re visit what the roster would be if we get one of Bedard or Fantilli. If Dvorak is still with us, he can play 4C with Evans as depth.

I'm not paying futures to unload Dvorak when we don't need cap space. I am open to moving him for whatever we can get and then keeping Monahan. Guys like Anderson, Monahan, and Dubois are nice to have with so much youth on the roster.

Ok, you're the one making no sense, and yes taking like "how do you not comprehend that" is disrespectful.

We can discuss the issues, but if you can't be respectful we can't and you can go to hell.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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Yes but not as much fun as having that elite talent. That player doesn’t need to come from the top picks although that’s usually where your best percentage of landing one, comes from. As you said, Pasta is an example of finding that gem later, as is Aho. Maybe we get lucky one of these drafts and get a late one too.
It would about time we get one of these happy picks, even late in first round or second round.

Ok, you're the one making no sense, and yes taking like "how do you not comprehend that" is disrespectful.

We can discuss the issues, but if you can't be respectful we can't and you can go to hell.
We can't count on Monahan as our 3d center. It would be fun but how many games Mo can play before getting injured. We have to sign him and would he accept a one year deal?
 
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Scriptor

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PLD has been non-commital publicly, in private it is apparently a whole different thing. And that's why the media ask the people close to him about it instead of Dubois himself.
Can you also be blaming Dubois for doing the right thing and not fanning the flames publicly?
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
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It would about time we get one of these happy picks, even late in first round or second round.


We can't count on Monahan as our 3d center. It would be fun but how many games Mo can play before getting injured. We have to sign him and would he accept a one year deal?
Hughes at his press conference said Monahan has to get healthy first before they talk about bringing him back. But yeah, at this point even if he makes a full recovery from his surgery, you can't count on him as your 3c. Having said that, since we're not expecting to make the playoffs next year, I'd take him on a 1 year deal if he recovers from his surgery. I think at this point he'd take a 1year deal.
 
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Scriptor

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It's all contingent on the results of the lottery.

If Montreal somehow manage to win the lottery, then I think you say thanks but no thanks.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Slafkovsky-Dach-Bedard
Armia-Dvorak-Gallagher
RHP-Evans-Ylonen
(Hoffman if he's still around)

There's no room in that lineup for PLD.

If Montreal doesn't win the lottery, then you investigate a sign and trade. The Jets have to take at least one contract back. Armia/Hoffman would be the logical choices from our perspective. Aging players being phased out that don't have NMC/NTCs on their contract.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Dubois-Dach-Slafkovsky
Armia/Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher
RHP-Evans-Ylonen
There's no room in that lineup for PLD.

Seriously? I beg to differ. Dubois is a better 1st line option than Anderson.

Anderson has also demonstrated some decent chemistry while playing with RHP.

In the short term, Dvorak is the problem as the third C, with, hopefully, more flavourful and exciting offensive, two-way options from Beck or the Habs' 2023 1st round pick, Dvorsky, for example, if we pick 7th or 8th OA.

Dubois-Suzuki-Caufield
Slafkovsky-Dach-Bedard
RHP-Dvorak-Anderson
Heineman-Evans-Gallagher
Ylonen, Armia, Hoffman (if he's still around)

That third line will likely evolve as well, with Heineman looking for a spot higher up in the lineup, as well as Beck, our own 2023 first round pick, Roy, Farrell, Mesar and Kidney looking to make a case for themselves as NHLers.

Not many of those players will become as good or better than Dubois, if any, and some will need to be traded down the line, including in a package for Dubois if we trade for him. That's reality.

Down the line, in a couple of years:

Dubois - Suzuki - Caufield
Roy - Dach - Bedard
Slafkovsky - Dvorsky/Beck - Anderson/Heineman/Mesar
RHP - Beck/Dvorak/Mesar/UFA - Heineman/Gallagher

Ylonen, Gallagher

Hoffman and Armia gone through attrition.
 

habsfan44

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Set aside your frustration and dislike of Bergevin/Timmins. There are pieces they acquired that will be part of our rebuild. Yes, the rebuild started before Gorton/Hughes were hired.

Pieces from Bergevin/Timmins:
Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Romanov/Dach, Xhekaj, Harris, Roy, Farrell, Mailloux, Dobes, Kidney.

Pieces from Gorton/Hughes:
Dach/Romanov, Slaf, Mesar, Beck, Hutson, Engstrom, Panthers 1st, Flames 1st,
There are always prospects and young players left over from the previous regime when a new general manager takes over , it's the same for every team , it isn't indicative of the first 3-4 years of a rebuild in progress . Bergevin built the team that made it to the cup finals in 2021 and was fired early the following season after a terrible start . Full stop . The players you mention are proof that he participated in drafts , made trades and contributed to the day to day running of the organization , again not indicative of the first 3-4 years of a rebuild in progress . Does he get credit for the acquisitions (not Dach) ? Of course he does but those acquisitions were made to stock/restock the farm , not to begin a rebuild , that started when GMKH was hired in Jan./22 .​
 
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Boss Man Hughes

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One area I wonder about is cap management.
* Suzuki signed and Caufield will be soon. I'm expecting Caufield to be around $7.5M - $8M range.
* Dubois signed around $8M as well.
* Slaf and Guhle for 2 more years on ELC then bridge or long term extension?
* Dach for 3 more years and then massive raise?
* Bedard or Fantilli for 3 more ELC years and then massive raise
* Xhekaj for one more season and then bridge?

Gallagher has 4 more years left which would overlap all of Slaf, Guhle, Dach, and Bedard/Fantilli. And also Slaf/Guhle new contracts. Nice problems to have and the cap is expected to grow, but so hard to predict. We might have to give a 1st to unload Gallagher for his last year.

The good news is so many of the B+ or B prospects will filter into Laval and start their ELC later hopefully. So it might be important not to rush guys like Roy and Hutson for example.

If we add Dubois, and get Bedard or Fantilli. Imagine having to extend both Dach and Bedard/Fantilli when Gallagher is still on the payroll for one more season?
Hopefully there will be another Arizona by then who will take Gallagher off Habs hands for a draft pick.
 
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Tetragrammaton

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Evans is 4c. I'd keep Belzile and Tierny in Laval. But yeah, that's one of the great things of having a guy like Dvo on the wing. In case of injury, he can move back to center. And Dvo can take the draws until Dach no longer struggles with that.
I think the only way Dach will improve is by taking as many faceoffs as possible. Watching Dvo won't help much.
 
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morhilane

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Can you also be blaming Dubois for doing the right thing and not fanning the flames publicly?
I personally don't see anything wrong with a player saying he would prefer to play somewhere else as long as he's still giving his all and supporting his current team (what Dubois has been doing the last two seasons).

Now the Montréal media is a problem with that thought, they would never let it go and would be repeating it over and over again, harassing people/Dubois about it even more, etc. The whole thing would be a none story if it was Arizona that was his preferred destination...
 
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BLONG7

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I personally don't see anything wrong with a player saying he would prefer to play somewhere else as long as he's still giving his all and supporting his current team (what Dubois has been doing the last two seasons).

Now the Montréal media is a problem with that thought, they would never let it go and would be repeating it over and over again, harassing people/Dubois about it even more, etc. The whole thing would be a none story if it was Arizona that was his preferred destination...
The Montreal media, has a TMZ vibe to it............and it's getting worse by the day.
 
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