Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[habsfan44]

Our starting lineup for 23-24 seems so vague and undefined. I wonder if there will be some movement. Gurianov I’m not sure will be retained. Slaf I hope to see in the AHL, until he earns a promotion. Dach can definitely score more but needs linemates.


How many 60+ pt scorers do we have in the pipeline?

Additional question: how many 60+ pt scorers have the Habs had in their pipeline in the last decade?

I don't know and neither does anyone else , that's why we should be patient and develop these prospects and give them a chance to show what they're capable of doing in the NHL preferably with the Habs rather than watching them possibly turn into stars for other teams . To answer your other question , I don't think it matters how many 60 pt. players we've had in the pipe in the Last ten years , GMKH has only been in charge for a little over a year and I'm fairly certain it doesn't matter to him either .

 

[habsfan44]

I tend to agree with this. It will be fascinating to see where Habs end up on lottery night, because I think that will play a role in what they do. I think a top 3 pick , may accelerate their rebuild (rightly or wrongly) and Hughes may decide to move several chips to the middle of the table for guys like Dubois and Hart.

He may feel they have too many pieces for so few slots and guys like Mesar, Kidney, Roy and Engstrom + picks may become available

I'm not sure , you may very well be right in your assessment but I think GMKH still takes a conservative approach and remains patient at least for a little while , as far as Dubois is concerned , if there is real interest from the Habs I think a lot will depend on the contract demands by him and his agent .

 

[Barriwhite]

Which they would obviously work out and long term deal as this was going down......they would not want him for 1 year.

I said 1 year early, not 1 year only.

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

I don’t get the hype, he quit on Columbus, and has made it known he wants out of Winnipeg. But this is the guy we want to back the brinks truck up for? It’ll be great until he underachieves with the added pressure of being a local guy and quits on another team.

 

[SwiftyHab]

So the former Habs radio announcer Dan Robertson, who took on the same job in Winnipeg this year and has been watching PLD closely says he’s near dominant when he’s on and the whole team isn’t playing well.

Dan Robertson on The Starters: Dubois is a borderline dominant player

Dan Robertson joins Simon Tsalikis, Joey Alfieri & Dave Trentadue to discuss the Jets' season, Pierre-Luc Dubois and more.

www.tsn.ca

 

[ReHabs]

Waste or not the team is shit , they won't be relevant next year either way. Hugues is still getting rid of the garbage of Bergevin. We all knew this was gonna be a 4-5 years process. It's only the second year.

P a t i e n c e

It’s not about being relevant, it’s about being acutely aware of the most unavoidable fact there is: time only goes forward.

Not to get all existential here but time (or: the passing of time) is the single most important factor in all we talk about.

Bergevin’s biggest mistakes weren’t those contract extensions, it was squandering what he inherited and not supplanting what he lost to time. Players got injured, moved on, traded away, declined, hobbled, etc. Carey Price got hurt and more brittle and Bergevin was all along sitting on his thumb until it was far too late.

We have Caufield, we have Suzuki, we have those defencemen. It isn’t a suitable core but if we add to it and keep adding to the core we will have a competitive team. If it proves to be unable to compete we can always trade and retool or tank and rebuild. Look at how Nashville, Washington, and St Louis did it. Look at how quickly the Wild managed to overcome their huge caphit penalties.

The half a decade long rebuild is a thing of fiction. It’s unreasonable to not add to the core at all times… it’s not even good for player development — good players play better when they play with other good players. PLD isn’t elite, isn’t a superstar, is hardly even on track to be PPGl nonetheless he would be (at worst) one of our top3 forwards.

With the state of the team I don’t see an easy way to accelerate the process without becoming tweeners like we’ve been for two decades. Suzuki and Caufield will most likely be playing their best hockey in 3-4 years.

PLD isn’t a game changer. He’s a complimentary piece to an already established team. We need to be in this for the long haul.

There is no acceleration. Building is a constant process. Good teams acquire good players whenever they can. It’s simple as… we have cap space and the price is right.

I don’t get the hype, he quit on Columbus, and has made it known he wants out of Winnipeg. But this is the guy we want to back the brinks truck up for? It’ll be great until he underachieves with the added pressure of being a local guy and quits on another team.

He did not quit on WPG, he specifically said he does not wish to sign past his UFA years. WPG revealed that to the media and fed this frenzy.

You’re gonna hold his basic right to have the option of where he plays against him?

 

[Egresch]

People are discussing about PLDs salary demands assuming he might ask for 8@8M.
Related to that, my question is:
What is his commercial potential in Montreal? I assume he would be the main man (fans favorite), so he should definitely attract some additional commercial revenue, right? Are there any examples of Habs players making money from advertisement?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

It’s not about being relevant, it’s about being acutely aware of the most unavoidable fact there is: time only goes forward.

Not to get all existential here but time (or: the passing of time) is the single most important factor in all we talk about.

Bergevin’s biggest mistakes weren’t those contract extensions, it was squandering what he inherited and not supplanting what he lost to time. Players got injured, moved on, traded away, declined, hobbled, etc. Carey Price got hurt and more brittle and Bergevin was all along sitting on his thumb until it was far too late.

We have Caufield, we have Suzuki, we have those defencemen. It isn’t a suitable core but if we add to it and keep adding to the core we will have a competitive team. If it proves to be unable to compete we can always trade and retool or tank and rebuild. Look at how Nashville, Washington, and St Louis did it. Look at how quickly the Wild managed to overcome their huge caphit penalties.

The half a decade long rebuild is a thing of fiction. It’s unreasonable to not add to the core at all times… it’s not even good for player development — good players play better when they play with other good players. PLD isn’t elite, isn’t a superstar, is hardly even on track to be PPGl nonetheless he would be (at worst) one of our top3 forwards.


There is no acceleration. Building is a constant process. Good teams acquire good players whenever they can. It’s simple as… we have cap space and the price is right.


He did not quit on WPG, he specifically said he does not wish to sign past his UFA years. WPG revealed that to the media and fed this frenzy.

You’re gonna hold his basic right to have the option of where he plays against him?

Either way you still cant rush that process. Also other teams won't give us gems for scrap

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I don’t get the hype, he quit on Columbus, and has made it known he wants out of Winnipeg. But this is the guy we want to back the brinks truck up for? It’ll be great until he underachieves with the added pressure of being a local guy and quits on another team.

He hasn't quit on Winnipeg, or asked out of Winnipeg officially.

He hasn't said he doesn't like Winnipeg, or that he doesn't want to be there, just it seems he would prefer to be somewhere else. Preferring to be somewhere else isn't quitting, or wanting out.

I'm sure a lot, if not all of us might have had a job you liked, but you left it because you found another job that pays the same, but allows for more free time, or the travel is less, or there's more pay, or there's less pay, but more opportunity to advance.

That's what I've gathered so far from what's been said. He wanted out of Columbus and blatantly quit on the team. Duchene did the same in Colorado, but everyone wanted him as a free agent.

 

[26Mats]

So the former Habs radio announcer Dan Robertson, who took on the same job in Winnipeg this year and has been watching PLD closely says he’s near dominant when he’s on and the whole team isn’t playing well.

Dan Robertson on The Starters: Dubois is a borderline dominant player

Dan Robertson joins Simon Tsalikis, Joey Alfieri & Dave Trentadue to discuss the Jets' season, Pierre-Luc Dubois and more.

www.tsn.ca

Dan Robertson in this segment also said PLD was dominant nearly every single game for the first 50 something games of the season before he got hurt. He said when he came back wasn't as good, but so was the rest of the team.

Said Dubois can protect the puck really well - says he reminds him of Jagr, though of course not that good...

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Well, he scored tonight. His 4th goal in his last 20 games. His 26th of the season though. It was the 5th goal in a 6-1 win over NJD.

Winnipeg seems to have found its game since Bowness called the vets out in a recent media scrum.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

 

[Runner77]

In the last 20 years we never had a game changer that's true. It takes sometimes many years of big mediocrity to draft one of those game changer. Pittsburg started draft Fleury 1rts overall, then Malkin and then Crosby. Then rules changed and there is as lottery now. Oilers drafted 3 OA : Nugent-Hopkins obviously not the savior type for this franchise, Draisatle is a real good player and McDavid is generational talent. Still not enough to win a Cup. Why ? That team is not well balanced, the D isn't good, same in the goals. Buffalo have decades of good drafting position and still nothing, no PO for them.

The game changer or the saviour is not always the answer. Blues won a Cup without a game changer, same with Carolina and Boston. Even two teams strong and well balanced facing each orher in PO, one of them will eliminate the other. Who will be nthe game changer or who will make the difference? Sometimes it's a player on the 4th line who will score the most important goal. Sometimes a strong defence will neutralise the opposite strong offensive line. There is not only one receipe to win a SC. You can win with a 120 pts game changer and you can win with a well balanced team from player A to player Z.

There are many ways to build a roster no doubt, however, there is a huge difference watching a game-changer as the team is trying to become competitive vs. not having one. It can’t be discounted how much more entertaining the game changer would be. Way easier to be patient as a fan when you have one.

 

[Rapala]

It depends what you are looking for. He's a good support player that could help the depth of a team like Colorado providing the AAV is not too high.

In the context of a rebuilding/bad team Lawson Crouse bring you nothing. He's not good enough to move any needles by himself and since he'll turn 26 this summer he'll be too old when a rebuild would be over. He's not really a vet presence either since he has very few experience on a winning team.

Considering you would rather have Crouse than PLD on a team lacking top line skills then the only conclusion is you overrated Crouse and you're not the only one i've seen some terrible take on Crouse around here.

I liked Crouse before he was drafted...
I was wrong.

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

It’s not about being relevant, it’s about being acutely aware of the most unavoidable fact there is: time only goes forward.

Not to get all existential here but time (or: the passing of time) is the single most important factor in all we talk about.

Bergevin’s biggest mistakes weren’t those contract extensions, it was squandering what he inherited and not supplanting what he lost to time. Players got injured, moved on, traded away, declined, hobbled, etc. Carey Price got hurt and more brittle and Bergevin was all along sitting on his thumb until it was far too late.

We have Caufield, we have Suzuki, we have those defencemen. It isn’t a suitable core but if we add to it and keep adding to the core we will have a competitive team. If it proves to be unable to compete we can always trade and retool or tank and rebuild. Look at how Nashville, Washington, and St Louis did it. Look at how quickly the Wild managed to overcome their huge caphit penalties.

The half a decade long rebuild is a thing of fiction. It’s unreasonable to not add to the core at all times… it’s not even good for player development — good players play better when they play with other good players. PLD isn’t elite, isn’t a superstar, is hardly even on track to be PPGl nonetheless he would be (at worst) one of our top3 forwards.


There is no acceleration. Building is a constant process. Good teams acquire good players whenever they can. It’s simple as… we have cap space and the price is right.


He did not quit on WPG, he specifically said he does not wish to sign past his UFA years. WPG revealed that to the media and fed this frenzy.

You’re gonna hold his basic right to have the option of where he plays against him?

He’s absolutely free to play wherever he wants, when he’s a ufa, he’s not though, maybe he should keep his preferred destination to himself until the time comes?

 

[Scriptor]

You keep trying to point at everyone that doesn’t think like you or doesn’t like Dubois as much as you.

‘’Stupidity’’ ‘’lack of comprehension’’ when you are the one who won’t even try to understand other people’s opinion or understand something in another light.

You think Hughes saying he maybe would want to do a trade similar to the Dach one means Dubois, 100% and every other opinion than yours is wrong.

That's your assumption about me. No, not necessarily. But, what I am saying is that you are wrong to think he won't try to add anything to the roster to make the team better.

Admit your point was not taking into account everything Hughes said and leave it at that.

 

[Team_Spirit]

People are discussing about PLDs salary demands assuming he might ask for 8@8M.
Related to that, my question is:
What is his commercial potential in Montreal? I assume he would be the main man (fans favorite), so he should definitely attract some additional commercial revenue, right? Are there any examples of Habs players making money from advertisement?

Nick Suzuki cannot be stopped

 

[Scriptor]

Sorry, a bit off-topic, but do you seriously abbreviate Montréal as MON??

Yeah. Seriously.

 

[Scriptor]

With the state of the team I don’t see an easy way to accelerate the process without becoming tweeners like we’ve been for two decades. Suzuki and Caufield will most likely be playing their best hockey in 3-4 years.

PLD isn’t a game changer. He’s a complimentary piece to an already established team. We need to be in this for the long haul.

PLD is part of a rebuild and not an acceleration of a rebuild, IMO. I love how some say he sucks and, in the same breath, assume it will be an acceleration of the rebuild and that maybe Montreal will make the playoffs next year with Dubois on board.

Montreal will not make the playoffs with Dubois on board next year and he would be part of a young, long-term core heading forward.

However, he would help not wast three years of Caufield and Suzuki, plus Dach and Slafkovsky, by lending support in the top-6 to stop Montreal from being a strictly on-line team.

I'd love the let's wait for four or five year crowd to explain how they are surrounding Suzuki, Caufield, Dach and Slafkovsky to help them develop and progress as NHLers starting next year?

You can't turn a blind eye to the entire process of rebuilding with the sole goal of losing games in the hopes of winning some prize in a lottery, before knowing if there will even be a prize n the next lottery or, the one beyond that.

Projections of Shane Wright, ahead of time, had him being a generational player at some point. That soured somewhat as it got closer to the draft...

He’s absolutely free to play wherever he wants, when he’s a ufa, he’s not though, maybe he should keep his preferred destination to himself until the time comes?

Hog wash. Just my opinion (like yours).

 

[Scriptor]

People are discussing about PLDs salary demands assuming he might ask for 8@8M.
Related to that, my question is:
What is his commercial potential in Montreal? I assume he would be the main man (fans favorite), so he should definitely attract some additional commercial revenue, right? Are there any examples of Habs players making money from advertisement?

Drouin. Caufield. Suzuki have all made money through advertisement, as well as Gallagher, but also others, I'm sure. Tatar had his kutö Tuna Tartar add...

 

[Scriptor]

Either way you still cant rush that process. Also other teams won't give us gems for scrap

Some situations are particular, like, perhaps (TBD), Dubois' situation in WIN and can become opportunities. Nothing is set in stone, like you seem to claim though your FACT/opinion.

But, I agree, we should not rush the process. I just don't think that continually adding talent, when available, or when opportunities arise, is rushing the process.

The team isn't magically going to come together in some later time period in four or five years.

Rebuilding actually involves building, IMO, meaning that your GM is proactive and has some flair to spot opportunities. Of course, it involves a lot of drafting and development AS WELL, not instead of spotting and profiting from opportunities as they arise to add talent to our core.

Lots of shaky scarecrows have been erected in order to discredit the idea of trading for Dubois, and, in some cases, plainly adding him, even as an UFA in a year.

Arguments have been made regarding these scarecrows to refute them and they haven't even been challenged, but, rather, simply ignored, like the arguments and explanations never existed.

Might as well shut down this thread because it serves little purpose as posters all have already staked their positions and don't seen to care about anything else but that position.

 

[ReHabs]

He’s absolutely free to play wherever he wants, when he’s a ufa, he’s not though, maybe he should keep his preferred destination to himself until the time comes?

That’s exactly what happened. It was WPG who first revealed to the media that he’s refusing to sign a long-term contract with the Jets (how entitled of the Jets!) — he didn’t make any trade request or holdout, by all accounts he stuck to a very simple line: I’m going to Free Agency.

The media grilled his agent about this and asked if he would see himself in MTL and he said yes.

And now we are here.

 

[Kojo]

I don’t get the hype, he quit on Columbus, and has made it known he wants out of Winnipeg. But this is the guy we want to back the brinks truck up for? It’ll be great until he underachieves with the added pressure of being a local guy and quits on another team.

He gives me flashbacks of Drouin. Not the same kind of player but they both quit on their team multiple time.

 

[BLONG7]

That’s exactly what happened. It was WPG who first revealed to the media that he’s refusing to sign a long-term contract with the Jets (how entitled of the Jets!) — he didn’t make any trade request or holdout, by all accounts he stuck to a very simple line: I’m going to Free Agency.

The media grilled his agent about this and asked if he would see himself in MTL and he said yes.

And now we are here.

Yup, the Jets opened the box, and the media jumped in with both feet.

He gives me flashbacks of Drouin. Not the same kind of player but they both quit on their team multiple time.

Some similarity, but some huge differences..............not to mention PLD has seemed to want to play for the habs since his draft day.......
Definitely two different players though....

 

[sandviper]

He’s absolutely free to play wherever he wants, when he’s a ufa, he’s not though, maybe he should keep his preferred destination to himself until the time comes?

To be fair, I think he’s been non-commital. It’s his agent that made that comment. Granted, I understand sometimes players speak through their agent, but I think it‘s more the media taking an interview and blowing this up.