Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

“Would you rather that the Habs trade for Dubois or instead wait and try to sign him when he becomes


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Habs Halifax

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What , in the last 3-4 years of Bergevin/Timmins signifies rebuild to you ? It was my understanding that the rebuild began with the firing of those two in Nov. of 2021 and the hiring of Hughes in Jan. of 2022 which should put us early in year two of the rebuild or am I missing something?

Set aside your frustration and dislike of Bergevin/Timmins. There are pieces they acquired that will be part of our rebuild. Yes, the rebuild started before Gorton/Hughes were hired.

Pieces from Bergevin/Timmins:
Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Romanov/Dach, Xhekaj, Harris, Roy, Farrell, Mailloux, Dobes, Kidney.

Pieces from Gorton/Hughes:
Dach/Romanov, Slaf, Mesar, Beck, Hutson, Engstrom, Panthers 1st, Flames 1st,
 

morhilane

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To be fair, I think he’s been non-commital. It’s his agent that made that comment. Granted, I understand sometimes players speak through their agent, but I think it‘s more the media taking an interview and blowing this up.
PLD has been non-commital publicly, in private it is apparently a whole different thing. And that's why the media ask the people close to him about it instead of Dubois himself.
 

Habs Halifax

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To be fair, I think he’s been non-commital. It’s his agent that made that comment. Granted, I understand sometimes players speak through their agent, but I think it‘s more the media taking an interview and blowing this up.

Deeper than just the interview.

1) This all started with a Jets reporter saying Dubois is telling members of the organization that he wants to play for the Habs one day. That report was posted on HF boards and fans laughed at it. Well, context just kept coming after.

2) Then about 2 weeks after that, Brisson/Dubois told the Jets they will not sign past his RFA years.

3) Then the interview with Brisson and the Quebec media happened. That was about a week after the draft if I remember correctly

4) Then the one year RFA deal with a press conference to calm down the noise. If any fan thinks Dubois would walk to a podium in Winnipeg to say he will force his way to Montreal after the 1 year contract are out of their minds. So he had to say the right things at that moment and his main message was he is getting ready for the season to play that one year deal.

5) Jets hired Bowness and he said he will do everything in his power to convince Dubois to stay. Connor played on his line for most of the season but was moved off early Jan and that was right after the Nick Kypreos report saying Dubois won't change his mind.

Lately, I have seen Connor back with Dubois. And I believe they just played all 3 together (Connor, Dubois, Scheifele). Jets trying everything they can to win games and try to convince both Dubois and Scheifele to stay.
 

Habs Halifax

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PLD has been non-commital publicly, in private it is apparently a whole different thing. And that's why the media ask the people close to him about it instead of Dubois himself.

Agreed. Expecting Dubois himself to say to the media "I will be playing for the Habs either next season or the season after" is weird. No player will say that to the media and especially when they have a contract with the Jets. Brisson said it but it was when he was a RFA.

Question: What was the Habs best offer for Dubois last draft? I am pretty sure the Habs and Jets talked. Jets asked for Dach but we said no? What do you think we offered? Or did we tell them, we can re visit the trade next summer?
 

BLNY

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It's all contingent on the results of the lottery.

If Montreal somehow manage to win the lottery, then I think you say thanks but no thanks.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Slafkovsky-Dach-Bedard
Armia-Dvorak-Gallagher
RHP-Evans-Ylonen
(Hoffman if he's still around)

There's no room in that lineup for PLD.

If Montreal doesn't win the lottery, then you investigate a sign and trade. The Jets have to take at least one contract back. Armia/Hoffman would be the logical choices from our perspective. Aging players being phased out that don't have NMC/NTCs on their contract.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Dubois-Dach-Slafkovsky
Armia/Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher
RHP-Evans-Ylonen
 

SwiftyHab

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Agreed. Expecting Dubois himself to say to the media "I will be playing for the Habs either next season or the season after" is weird. No player will say that to the media and especially when they have a contract with the Jets. Brisson said it but it was when he was a RFA.

Question: What was the Habs best offer for Dubois last draft? I am pretty sure the Habs and Jets talked. Jets asked for Dach but we said no? What do you think we offered? Or did we tell them, we can re visit the trade next summer?
Kidney/Beck/Mesar
 
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nhlfan9191

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Deeper than just the interview.

1) This all started with a Jets reporter saying Dubois is telling members of the organization that he wants to play for the Habs one day. That report was posted on HF boards and fans laughed at it. Well, context just kept coming after.

2) Then about 2 weeks after that, Brisson/Dubois told the Jets they will not sign past his RFA years.

3) Then the interview with Brisson and the Quebec media happened. That was about a week after the draft if I remember correctly

4) Then the one year RFA deal with a press conference to calm down the noise. If any fan thinks Dubois would walk to a podium in Winnipeg to say he will force his way to Montreal after the 1 year contract are out of their minds. So he had to say the right things at that moment and his main message was he is getting ready for the season to play that one year deal.

5) Jets hired Bowness and he said he will do everything in his power to convince Dubois to stay. Connor played on his line for most of the season but was moved off early Jan and that was right after the Nick Kypreos report saying Dubois won't change his mind.

Lately, I have seen Connor back with Dubois. And I believe they just played all 3 together (Connor, Dubois, Scheifele). Jets trying everything they can to win games and try to convince both Dubois and Scheifele to stay.
Aren’t the Jets in serious jeopardy of going full scorched earth if they can’t get any of these guys up for contract resigned? If they do, why would they even want to keep Dubois past next season? They’ll be where we were only 3 years behind. I don’t believe them at all when they say they’re trying to convince him to stay. I think it’s all to cover up the desperate situation they’re in to get any value for a player they paid a premium for just a couple of years ago.
 

Beendair Donedat

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Dec 29, 2010
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Aren’t the Jets in serious jeopardy of going full scorched earth if they can’t get any of these guys up for contract resigned? If they do, why would they even want to keep Dubois past next season? They’ll be where we were only 3 years behind. I don’t believe them at all when they say they’re trying to convince him to stay. I think it’s all to cover up the desperate situation they’re in to get any value for a player they paid a premium for just a couple of years ago.
Well what else can they say publicly?

"Dear fans, this is it, all she wrote as being competitive for awhile after these playoffs. Please keep buying tickets at high prices when we suck for the next decade after the upcoming yardsale."

They're in a very tough spot as a franchise - not unlike the Habs really but on a smaller scale - with an owner with deep pockets but even lower ability to attract UFA's to play. Drafting well, supplemented by good trades is the only way they can build contenders. Even then they are hampered by NTC's that almost always have Winnipeg on the list.

I feel for Jets fans, it can't be easy and it's got to hurt.
 
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Nico Cauzuki

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It's all contingent on the results of the lottery.

If Montreal somehow manage to win the lottery, then I think you say thanks but no thanks.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Slafkovsky-Dach-Bedard
Armia-Dvorak-Gallagher
RHP-Evans-Ylonen
(Hoffman if he's still around)

There's no room in that lineup for PLD.

If Montreal doesn't win the lottery, then you investigate a sign and trade. The Jets have to take at least one contract back. Armia/Hoffman would be the logical choices from our perspective. Aging players being phased out that don't have NMC/NTCs on their contract.

Caufield-Suzuki-Anderson
Dubois-Dach-Slafkovsky
Armia/Hoffman-Dvorak-Gallagher
RHP-Evans-Ylonen
get rid of Anderson PLD is 3 times the player Josh his and will cost only 3mill more

Dubois - Suzuki - Caufield this is your 1st line
 
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Colezuki

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Set aside your frustration and dislike of Bergevin/Timmins. There are pieces they acquired that will be part of our rebuild. Yes, the rebuild started before Gorton/Hughes were hired.

Pieces from Bergevin/Timmins:
Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Romanov/Dach, Xhekaj, Harris, Roy, Farrell, Mailloux, Dobes, Kidney.

Pieces from Gorton/Hughes:
Dach/Romanov, Slaf, Mesar, Beck, Hutson, Engstrom, Panthers 1st, Flames 1st,
You cannot include Dach in both, it's romanov in Berg and Dach in Hughes, yes there intertwined but there not really. You also included Harris for Berg, where its widely known that he wouldn't be here if not for Hughes and Mailloux, who as much as I'm happy we have Berg and Timmins absolutely screwed up that pick and showed there ability to crisis manage in the days that followed. You also conveniently excluded the contracts that Berg signed to defense first players that are hamstringing us for the foreseeable at FWD and D. While omitting Barron for Hughes as well.

Bergevins issue was his inability to team build and structure the org. We had no analytics department, a shoestring player development department and an understaffed scouting department. Couple that with a preference for defense first structure and we had a team that couldn't develop talent, would accumulate 2nd and 3rd liners and then overpay them. It's akin to giving a child lego's, some build nonsense and others build a pirate ship, guess which one berg was.
 
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WeThreeKings

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You cannot include Dach in both, it's romanov in Berg and Dach in Hughes, yes there intertwined but there not really. You also included Harris for Berg, where its widely known that he wouldn't be here if not for Hughes and Mailloux, who as much as I'm happy we have Berg and Timmins absolutely screwed up that pick and showed there ability to crisis manage in the days that followed. You also conveniently excluded the contracts that Berg signed to defense first players that are hamstringing us for the foreseeable at FWD and D. While omitting Barron for Hughes as well.

Bergevins issue was his inability to team build and structure the org. We had no analytics department, a shoestring player development department and an understaffed scouting department. Couple that with a preference for defense first structure and we had a team that couldn't develop talent, would accumulate 2nd and 3rd liners and then overpay them. It's akin to giving a child lego's, some build nonsense and others build a pirate ship, guess which one berg was.

Not to mention that his staff and coaches weren't even good at developing players defensively. They just ruined players/prospects offensively while never really improving their defensive game.
 
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Colezuki

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Not to mention that his staff and coaches weren't even good at developing players defensively. They just ruined players/prospects offensively while never really improving their defensive game.
The thing that I'll give Berg credit for is that he did start accumulating a lot of mid round picks a few years back, those players need 4/5 years to be ready and it seems they'll be aligning with our top picks from the current rebuild. They also we're hidden from the garbage player development team while they we're in junior. But describing Bergevins tenure with anything but disdain is the correct approach, it's the same as putting an apple on an arrow before firing it.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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There are many ways to build a roster no doubt, however, there is a huge difference watching a game-changer as the team is trying to become competitive vs. not having one. It can’t be discounted how much more entertaining the game changer would be. Way easier to be patient as a fan when you have one.
The game changer could be a player not drafted in the first 2 OA. Pastrnak and Kucherov are good examples. Bergeron and Marchand too. It takes a good scout team and a bit of luck too. But in the mean time, building a team taking care in selecting each player one by one is not a bad way of doing it. Having 5 players producing 60 pts is not bad. And they could be entertaining to watch too.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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To be fair, I think he’s been non-commital. It’s his agent that made that comment. Granted, I understand sometimes players speak through their agent, but I think it‘s more the media taking an interview and blowing this up.
People have the false idea he wants to come here and only here. If I was him, I would be attracted by Boston, Denver, LA, Rangers and few others. This is something about his agent, I would say it was a mistake or a strategy. But a fact remain, occasions to land a legit C nhl experience, big, fast and young are very rare. In my book, we can't miss that opportunity.
 

26Mats

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He's got a NTC (8 team no trade list for 2023-24). You can't just "get rid" of him. That's my point.

I think we could move Anderson without taking salary back. Moving Dvo without take salary back may be harder. But if we landed Dubois, I'd be willing to give Dvo away for free.
 
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BLNY

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I think we could move Anderson without taking salary back. Moving Dvo without take salary back may be harder. But if we landed Dubois, I'd be willing to give Dvo away for free.
Not with 2 more years at $7-8 million in real dollars and the M-NTC.
 
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morhilane

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Feb 28, 2021
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Question: What was the Habs best offer for Dubois last draft? I am pretty sure the Habs and Jets talked. Jets asked for Dach but we said no? What do you think we offered? Or did we tell them, we can re visit the trade next summer?
The Jets couldn't have asked for Dach at the time since Habs didn't have him yet since whatever trade talk happened died before the draft happened from what I read last summer.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Habs didn't offer anything last year, they asked for the price and hanged-up...because all the trade rumors I've seen came from the Jets last and it was stuff like Suzuki+, Caufield+ and there was even a Suzuki&Caufield+

I also suspect it is the Jets who came back this year to talk trade with the Habs, since Dubois isn't a need anymore with Dach blossoming.
 

Habs Halifax

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The Jets couldn't have asked for Dach at the time since Habs didn't have him yet since whatever trade talk happened died before the draft happened from what I read last summer.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Habs didn't offer anything last year, they asked for the price and hanged-up...because all the trade rumors I've seen came from the Jets last and it was stuff like Suzuki+, Caufield+ and there was even a Suzuki&Caufield+

I also suspect it is the Jets who came back this year to talk trade with the Habs, since Dubois isn't a need anymore with Dach blossoming.

They could have asked for Dach because the trade could have happened on draft day or after.

Did the Habs offer something or not? Not sure but I believe we did. Could have been the Flames 1st (Mesar)+

I don't agree that because Dach improved this year, we don't need Dubois.

You cannot include Dach in both, it's romanov in Berg and Dach in Hughes, yes there intertwined but there not really. You also included Harris for Berg, where its widely known that he wouldn't be here if not for Hughes and Mailloux, who as much as I'm happy we have Berg and Timmins absolutely screwed up that pick and showed there ability to crisis manage in the days that followed. You also conveniently excluded the contracts that Berg signed to defense first players that are hamstringing us for the foreseeable at FWD and D. While omitting Barron for Hughes as well.

Bergevins issue was his inability to team build and structure the org. We had no analytics department, a shoestring player development department and an understaffed scouting department. Couple that with a preference for defense first structure and we had a team that couldn't develop talent, would accumulate 2nd and 3rd liners and then overpay them. It's akin to giving a child lego's, some build nonsense and others build a pirate ship, guess which one berg was.

Nit picking and overlooking the point. The point is our rebuild started before Gorton/Hughes were hired.
 

BLNY

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You don't put him on the top two lines either. PLD is way better on our top two lines then Anderson.
He's there because of displayed chemistry with, like himself, existing players. We don't have PLD. We can't get him without moving pieces out, and given the M-NTC and 7-8 million in actual salary for 2 more years it makes it very unlikely he moves.
You don't put him on the top two lines either. PLD is way better on our top two lines then Anderson.
Of course he's better. I went for balance across the top six and Andy does have chemistry with the remaining two. Further, he has to at least be in the top six unless you've got a magic wand to move out Armia AND Hoffman.
 

Habs Halifax

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Aren’t the Jets in serious jeopardy of going full scorched earth if they can’t get any of these guys up for contract resigned? If they do, why would they even want to keep Dubois past next season? They’ll be where we were only 3 years behind. I don’t believe them at all when they say they’re trying to convince him to stay. I think it’s all to cover up the desperate situation they’re in to get any value for a player they paid a premium for just a couple of years ago.

I think they would sign Dubois if he wanted to stay. He's 25 next year and would fit well with Connor, Morrisey, Perfetti, Ehlers, etc.

Scheifele and Helle are a different story. Their extensions take them well into 30+ years.

Dubois not wanting to stay just forces their hand sooner IMO.
 

morhilane

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They could have asked for Dach because the trade could have happened on draft day or after.

Did the Habs offer something or not? Not sure but I believe we did. Could have been the Flames 1st (Mesar)+

I don't agree that because Dach improved this year, we don't need Dubois.
Like I said, insiders said that whatever trade talks the Habs had with the Jets last year it died before the draft.
 
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