Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Habs]

Yeah I don't think people realize how terrible it is to live in a crap hole (especially if it has bad weather). Manitoba and Ohio are two places I would never move to. Unless you're from there or have a special connection to those places, those aren't places you want to go to. If PLD got drafted to Vancouver, etc or LA, Im pretty sure he'd still want to be there granted that the team wasn't a complete dumpster fire

it really matters where you live, your paycheck doesn't matter if its a crime ridden dump, that's for sure.

 

[26Mats]

What team has actually ever made something like that work cap wise? If we were getting some super deal like Nugent Hopkins, I’d be okay with that of course. But not $8+ million.

Yes, Dubois's cap number is key.

But note, though Nuge is on a great contract, McDavid and Draisaitl are on much bigger deals...

I liked Tampa's center line of Point, Stamkos, Cirelli, and Gourde when they won back to back.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Columbus and Winnipeg are arguably the biggest toilets out of all the Amercian and Candaidan hockey cities, respectively. Maybe, just maybe, he's actually got his own agenda and that's to be Billy Big Bollocks in Montreal and be the true home-town star and saviour of the French-Canadian universe?

for sure. And jets fans arguing that his parents live in Winnipeg, sort of don't get it. I mean yeah they do in season, but they also have a cottage in Quebec. And PLD lives with his girlfriend near downtown Montreal, plays in a big summer, hockey league with all the Montreal-born pros and is buddies with Savard. He also loved working with MSL when Tortorella brought him in to do player development a couple of years ago.
guess we'll see

 

[themilosh]

I've demonstrated and will argue that signing Dubois ti Suzuki money is achievable just through the structure of the contract you propose to Dubois and his agent.

Suzuki's contract has little front-loading and barely any bonus money.

Maximizing both those components on a Dubois contract keeps the cap hit around Suzuki's Cap hit, but the future dollar and net fiscal end of the contract near the 8.5M a year range -- with the added insurance that at least 85% of the salary would be shielded from a lockout because it would be paid out in bonuses.

I agree that Suzuki money makes it more logical money paid out if Dubois gets switched to the wing because a young C proves to be the Wow factor.

So why not sign him to a 1 yr deal loaded like $12m this year, so he can sign an 8 year deal Next january at a lower cap hit like 8x7.

 

[CHwest]

thing is, PLD brings star depth (not superstar) to our top 6 Centers. we now would have 3 x 1b centers, of whom all can play wing. Throw in Caufield, Slaf, and (heinman/roy/farrel) - and you are suddenly looking like the most feared top 6 in hockey! now think of the 3 rd line? even better!! (all without a so-called "superstar")

In what world is a player that has never sniffed a ppg a star? You guys so over value him.

 

[yianik]

You do know that Dubois is leaving right? For nothing right? And that the only reason why we'd trade for him while it seems that the guy is coming anyway, it has to count for us. So, I repeat. They get 3 players that could play. Not on ultra long contracts anyway. And frankly, Dvorak would do better than Lowry behind Scheifele.

It's the ONLY deal possible than losing a 4th best scorer for nothing. Why in the world would we give a 1st and Mesar to get a guy 1 year in advance? And by the way, we still suck next year. So the 2nd is around 35-40.

At the next TDL they could move PLD for a late 1st, decent B prospect like Struble, and a decent young player like Ylonen. That's about the going rate for a top 6 guy at the TDL historically.

 

[ReHabs]

“We don’t need a 60-70pt player!”

— fan of team that often has not even one 70pt player

I’d respect the poo-pooing of PLD more if the Habs actually had better options than him.

 

[HuGo Sham]

“We don’t need a 60-70pt player!”

— fan of team that often has not even one 70pt player

I’d respect the poo-pooing of PLD more if the Habs actually had better options than him.

for sure. Having the luxury of Dach, PLD and suzuki as potential 60-70 pt Cs + an elite sniper in Caufield + Slaf + whoever we get in the top 5 this year

LET'S GO

 

[SlafySZN]

“We don’t need a 60-70pt player!”

— fan of team that often has not even one 70pt player

I’d respect the poo-pooing of PLD more if the Habs actually had better options than him.

You won’t get a chance of drafting an actual 90 points player, by getting every 60 points player you can.

 

[26Mats]

You won’t get a chance of drafting an actual 90 points player, by getting every 60 points player you can.

I don't think we'll be finishing bottom 5 next year, so might as well add good players if we can.

 

[SlafySZN]

I don't think we'll be finishing bottom 5 next year, so might as well add good players if we can.

They won’t make big changes next year, they might even insert younger players like Farrell or even Heineman who doesn’t have much experience. A rebuild is painful for many years

 

[26Mats]

They won’t make big changes next year, they might even insert younger players like Farrell or even Heineman who doesn’t have much experience. A rebuild is painful for many years

Where we finish really depends on our health and if we get Dubois this summer, imo

 

[ZUKI]

Why most comments are 20 paragraphs long and none of them are talking about Dubois?

It sad that most comments are too long for you , because reading them in their entire form, you would see that they all talking about Dubois. To make you enjoying my comment, i will just put one single paragraph. WE WANT DUBOIS !!!

 

[ZUKI]

Where we finish really depends on our health and if we get Dubois this summer, imo

I am with you on this.
Habs have been devastated because injuries for 3 seasons now, even beating the NHL record for the number of games missed by players injured. In fact it's so important that we are simply used to see half a team on the ice and are judging the results , without talking this element in consideration.

Dubois would be a very good addition, and i think that the Habs have enough promising players in their system, to give what it would cost to get him. Sorry to repeat myself, but we are in a re-build process for more time than 2 seasons. Bergevin has added draft selections 2 years before the end of his tenure, and we can see the impact those players are having on the ice. The Caufield, Guhle, Harris, Wifi, Ylönen, are the first of a long list when adding selections of the last drafts

 

[HuGort]

The Habs want PLD but not at any cost. The deal has to make sense for us, for the Jets and for PLD.

I think it will be Dvorak and Mesar for PLD.

He will not be the highest paid player. Guaranteed. PLD will not be paid more than Suzuki. Maybe someone eventually will, but not PLD. Book that one.

I would max out at 7 on PLD. There are red flags with him.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Florida will be in a playoff spot after the win against Columbus

 

[Scriptor]

Where did I say that he sucks? You aren’t reading what I’m posting and repeatedly twisting my words and misquoting me. You’re one of two posters in this thread that have done this over and over. Someone not having the same infatuation you have with a player doesn’t mean they’re saying “he sucks.” In fact I’ve said he’s a good player multiple times. I’ve voiced my opinion as clear as I could. I’m not repeating the same thing over and over. Scroll up and actually read. If you don’t like what I’m saying to the point you are quoting me multiple times with the same points that have nothing to do with what I’m saying, put me on ignore. You consistently putting words in my mouth is borderline trolling.

Please stop it with this consistency. Someone says something once about what you wrote and you're suddenly getting mentally tortured. I've replied many times to your posts in a genuine discussion mode.

My point was not to quote you as saying something I know you never directly said, but rather to support the point that ws made vy another poster that all the players listed who didn't fit your criteria for a true #1C, were yet all instrumental in winning a Cup despite that.

Stop the victim routine and try to read through the lines. It was sarcasm, but wasn't meant to be hurtful. Stop taking everything personally. I'm not calling you an idiot. Some of your points are valid, IMO, and others not as much -- again, IMO.

I understand everybody's desire to have a guaranteed 80-90 point C (I think we might have one in Suzuki on a balanced team) -- it's every Hab fan's desire.

Fans happy with Suzuki-Dubois as a one two punch aren't content with two overpaid 60-point Cs in the top-6 as being depicted by tank nation who refuses to see Dubois as a Hab.

Most actually believe that 60 points is just a floor for two young and still; developing/progressing Cs as the team will get completed and become better balanced.

I see Suzuki ask a PPG C and Dubois as no worse than a 70-point C in the near future.

Don't need to agree and the onus is on me (actually on Suzuki and Dubois) since it hasn't happened yet.

So why not sign him to a 1 yr deal loaded like $12m this year, so he can sign an 8 year deal Next january at a lower cap hit like 8x7.

I mentioned elsewhere that they could pay him up to 16.5M for one year and sign him as low as 6,75M on a bonus-laden, front-loaded contract.

 

[Scriptor]

You won’t get a chance of drafting an actual 90 points player, by getting every 60 points player you can.

Need to be sellers on Suzuki, Dach and Caufield to ensure you might be in position to draft a future 90-point player. Of course, you'd have to be luckier and get a good pick in a good draft for once.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Please stop it with this consistency. Someone says something once about what you wrote and you're suddenly getting mentally tortured. I've replied many times to your posts in a genuine discussion mode.

My point was not to quote you as saying something I know you never directly said, but rather to support the point that ws made vy another poster that all the players listed who didn't fit your criteria for a true #1C, were yet all instrumental in winning a Cup despite that.

Stop the victim routine and try to read through the lines. It was sarcasm, but wasn't meant to be hurtful. Stop taking everything personally. I'm not calling you an idiot. Some of your points are valid, IMO, and others not as much -- again, IMO.

I understand everybody's desire to have a guaranteed 80-90 point C (I think we might have one in Suzuki on a balanced team) -- it's every Hab fan's desire.

Fans happy with Suzuki-Dubois as a one two punch aren't content with two overpaid 60-point Cs in the top-6 as being depicted by tank nation who refuses to see Dubois as a Hab.

Most actually believe that 60 points is just a floor for two young and still; developing/progressing Cs as the team will get completed and become better balanced.

I see Suzuki ask a PPG C and Dubois as no worse than a 70-point C in the near future.

Don't need to agree and the onus is on me (actually on Suzuki and Dubois) since it hasn't happened yet.


I mentioned elsewhere that they could pay him up to 16.5M for one year and sign him as low as 6,75M on a bonus-laden, front-loaded contract.

I can’t have a debate with somebody without you butting in and being 3 steps behind where I am in the conversation. I am a victim. You’re mentally torturing me the same way Tororella was torturing Dubois.

 

[Scriptor]

I can’t have a debate with somebody without you butting in and being 3 steps behind where I am in the conversation. I am a victim. You’re mentally torturing me the same way Tororella was torturing Dubois.

Okay, I laughed. Thanks.

Don't take things seriously. I don't mean any harm.

 

[habsfan44]

For me the equation is dead simple: if we want to be competitive in 2-3 years, we need to get very good players who will be able to perform well (near or at their career peak) in 2-3 years. PLD is such a player so of course I'm interesting in him. Right now. only Suz, Caufield and Dach could pretend to be/become better forwards within this timeline, so adding one more is Good.

The fact that he's a center and that we already have Suz and Dach is kinda a secondary consideration. I get that in a perfect world we would like to have all our lines and positions perfectly balanced, but the rule number one, really, is to get very good players.

A 1st and a 3rd can feel a steep price, but then, what are the chances any of these picks become players as good as PLD? Yeah.

That's the danger of the tank mentality - that people (including me - I'm often guilty of this) forget that to become competitive, we need to have get good players by any means. We can't chase the dragon of 1OV forever, thinking that we'll draft someone who will change the mackup of this team overnight.

Geez , we're barely into year two of the rebuild and your talking about the danger of the tank mentality, the truth is time is on our side with those picks , all we need is patience as opposed to acquiring a 25 year old pending RFA already making 6 mill. per year who is obviously looking to get paid on a long term deal . Virtually every move made by Hughes has been an effort to make this team younger and better , I fully expect him to continue in this vein for the foreseeable future rather than spending picks , prospects and valuable cap space on a 60 pt. player who marginally improves this team .

 

[Bouboumaster]

Caufield - Suzuki - Slaf
Anderson - PLD - Dach

Let's f***ing go

 

[Rapala]

I can’t have a debate with somebody without you butting in and being 3 steps behind where I am in the conversation. I am a victim. You’re mentally torturing me the same way Tororella was torturing Dubois.

My question is just how many individuals are you referring to?

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I can’t have a debate with somebody without you butting in and being 3 steps behind where I am in the conversation. I am a victim. You’re mentally torturing me the same way Tororella was torturing Dubois.

Ok now you admitt Torturella tortured mentally PLD, lol. Imagine PLD in private discussion with Torts, then Torts talk to the press and bash PLD publicly. PLD is not just a cleaning janitor in a shop where his boss can play games of humiliation for his personal fun. PLD is a pro athlete making millions and he wants to perform and be confortable to make pts and help his team.

Tortorella is an anachronism in our era with his way of management based on public humilation, he comes directly from 1930. I don't understand some posters try to defend Torts. Personally I like Torts because he entertain me and I enjoy every of his big mouth talk because I know it won't last very long. Torts will be the last of that kind of coaching. Maybe the nhl scene will be dull after him. But I could understand PLD to move out of him.

 

[Scriptor]

Geez , we're barely into year two of the rebuild and your talking about the danger of the tank mentality, the truth is time is on our side with those picks , all we need is patience as opposed to acquiring a 25 year old pending RFA already making 6 mill. per year who is obviously looking to get paid on a long term deal . Virtually every move made by Hughes has been an effort to make this team younger and better , I fully expect him to continue in this vein for the foreseeable future rather than spending picks , prospects and valuable cap space on a 60 pt. player who marginally improves this team .

A few of those marginal improvements at a few key positions and MON is a top-10 team in this League within three years, as well as perennial contender.

After Dubois, we lack a top-6 sniper and a top-6, puck-possession beast that can pass then puck on the wings.

We also need at least one shutdown D that can eventually lay with Hutson and a puck-moving D that can drive the play.

Lastly, we need a #1G.

Up front, it's unclear whether we can fill those needs from Roy, the Habs' 2023 first round pick and Slafkovsky.

Three possibilities for two spots. Farrell, IMO is too small for the roles.

A dark horse might be Heineman?

On D, I think we need to look outside the organization for that shutdown D that can eventually play with Hutson, but Mailloux, Hutson, or a combination of the two might address the other need for a play driving, puck-moving D.

The G, I fear, could become an albatross forth Habs, but a balanced lineup with skill should help minimize the need for a franchise G.