Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

“Would you rather that the Habs trade for Dubois or instead wait and try to sign him when he becomes


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nhlfan9191

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Define a true no. 1 C. Who do you consider a true no. 1 C? Do Suzuki/PLD potentially fit the general mold of past "true no. 1 Cs" that won a cup? Are there past SC winning teams that didn't have that "true no. 1 C"?
PPG or higher would be my definition. I don’t see how we can expect to win championships if both Suzuki and Dubois are producing 60-70 points as our top 6 centers at $16-17 million for both.
 

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PPG or higher would be my definition. I don’t see how we can expect to win championships if both Suzuki and Dubois are producing 60-70 points as our top 6 centers at $16-17 million for both.
We won’t necessarily need a true #1 if our wings are as stacked as they are looking like they may be if some of our prospects pan out.
 

nhlfan9191

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What if all 3 of our top centers are producing 60-70 (Suzuki, Dach, Dubois)?

What if Suzuki and Dach are 70+ or 80+ and Dubois is still 60-70?
What team has actually ever made something like that work cap wise? If we were getting some super deal like Nugent Hopkins, I’d be okay with that of course. But not $8+ million.
 

HuGo Burner Acc

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PPG or higher would be my definition. I don’t see how we can expect to win championships if both Suzuki and Dubois are producing 60-70 points as our top 6 centers at $16-17 million for both.
Question, was Jonathan Toews a true no.1 C? How about Patrice Bergeron during the Bruins runs in the early to mid 2010s? Also you're presuming Suzuki and PLD will stay at their current pace and never get better. Suzuki was on pace for at least PPG before Caufield got hurt, and Dach moved to a different line and he was basically playing with bums and non elite player

During their SC runs and throughout most of their career these Centres were not PPG:

Kopitar
Toews
Bergeron
O'Reilly
Backstrom
 
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FerrisRox

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Right now it would be great for all our young wingers to develop with a center line of Suzuki-Davh-Dubois-Evans. That would be much better than having Dvo in the 3 hole. If we ever get that elite 1c, then Dubois can be moved to the wing or a trade can be made.

Here are all those young wingers that I'd rather not pkay with Dvo:

Caufield-Slaf
Farrell-Gurianov
RHP-Anderson
Heineman-Ylonen

And more on the way (Roy, Kidney, Mesar, 2023 draft class,...)

Why do you want to keep the young wingers away from Christian Dvorak?

Im saying that Dach is not a first line center. What's so complicated to understand

People might be struggling with the fact that you are suggesting you have clairvoyant abilities that allow you to see into the future.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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This post is complete and utter garbage. You’re putting words in my mouth and accusing me of making narratives I never made. There was no “hidden message.” My point was we already have what Dubois brings in Suzuki and what we need is a true 1st line center. That’s considerably harder to get when you’re blowing your load cap wise on Dubois.
So you basicly say Suzuki is enough at center and there is no need for another center. Name me teams who won the SC with only one good center. Usually these one-center teams have a 100 pts center and Suzuki is not that type of center. It looks like like as long as we have Suzuki, we can't build anoter strong line because we don't have enough wingers who will be feed by other centers. We will try to win games with mainly one line putting goals and cross our fingers the score at the end will be on our favor.

If eventually Suzuki become the second center because we have a better center, tell me who it will be and how we will get him. I guess you're convinced we will get Bedard, when we have 17% chances to get him. And the next 1srt round draft player haven't played a single game in nhl and will need time to developp. And if it's not Bedard, tell me how he can become better than PLD who is a proven 60 pts nhl player at center and wing.

Blowing your cap wise on Dubois at 8 M, more or less? How a player 24 yrs old, nhl 60 pts should be paid? How much are paid better players like Matthews, McDavid and McKinnon? If you snub PLD, tell me who the Habs can get?
 

Andrei79

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Am I the only one to be worried about the fact, that, at 24 y old, it is already the 3rd time Dubois wants to move from a team?

In junior, Columbus and now Winnipeg...

I agree. He's a great player, but its a red flag. Especially with the contract he'll get.

I'd also add that I think some people are setting themselves up for quite a disappointment if he doesn't sign here.
 
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FerrisRox

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So you basicly say Suzuki is enough at center and there is no need for another center.

Are you intentionally trying to not get what he's saying?

He clearly didn't say that.

He specifically said that what the Canadiens really need is a true #1 centre and that clogging up $8 million plus on another 60 to 70 point centre will make that much more difficult to do.

Why would you just ignore that and pretend he said they don't need another centre at all? I mean, that is quite obviously not what he said. What is the point of replying to someone if you are going to ignore what they said and then make up your own argument for them?

This is bizarre behaviour.
 

nhlfan9191

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So you basicly say Suzuki is enough at center and there is no need for another center. Name me teams who won the SC with only one good center. Usually these one-center teams have a 100 pts center and Suzuki is not that type of center. It looks like like as long as we have Suzuki, we can't build anoter strong line because we don't have enough wingers who will be feed by other centers. We will try to win games with mainly one line putting goals and cross our fingers the score at the end will be on our favor.

If eventually Suzuki become the second center because we have a better center, tell me who it will be and how we will get him. I guess you're convinced we will get Bedard, when we have 17% chances to get him. And the next 1srt round draft player haven't played a single game in nhl and will need time to developp. And if it's not Bedard, tell me how he can become better than PLD who is a proven 60 pts nhl player at center and wing.

Blowing your cap wise on Dubois at 8 M, more or less? How a player 24 yrs old, nhl 60 pts should be paid? How much are paid better players like Matthews, McDavid and McKinnon? If you snub PLD, tell me who the Habs can get?
That’s still not even close to what I said. I’m going to finish this post and be done with this topic for awhile because there’s clearly some posters who’re overly emotional when it comes to Dubois. I never once said we didn’t need another Center on top of Suzuki. I said we need an elite offensive center to compliment Suzuki if his offence doesn’t go up drastically. Whether that ends up being Dach, someone else in the organization, or someone outside of it. I don’t view that player as Dubois and I prefer not to get married to the guy the next 7-8-9 years at a high cap to find out.
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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Am I the only one to be worried about the fact, that, at 24 y old, it is already the 3rd time Dubois wants to move from a team?

In junior, Columbus and now Winnipeg...
I'm not sure about junior, but I don't think he nessecarily wants out of Winnipeg, rather than he seems to want to come here. If he didn't have that desire,he might stay in Winnipeg. However, with the supposed retool/rebuild for the Jets, PLD leaving seems inevitable at this point whether he wants out and not even just to come here, or just out in general, or not
 

V13

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In a ideal world you don't give any assets for PLD and sign him as a UFA next summer if he really wants to come here. That said i can see the argument in favor of trading for him. You bring him 1 year earlier , gives him more time to gel , develop chemistry and learn the MSL system etc. Trading for him wouldn't be my first option but depending on the price i wouldn't be upset if it happened. But that's all relative to the price. There are risks of course as in let's say we trade for him , he plays 1 year here but things go south , doesn't have a great season , headbutt with MSL or for whatever reason and then decide to bolt as a UFA during the summer. So there are clearly potential downsides to this but those are big "IF"

As for PLD himself i wasn't that excited about him but i warmed up to the idea quite a bit in hte last few months. He can produce at least 60pts minimum if not more , he's big , can play physical if needs be , would fit with the future core as he's only 24 and can play both C and W which can be useful. He'd be instantly one of our better pts producer abd best top 6 forward. And as a bonus he's a local boy. Won,t cry if we don't get him but he's not a bad player and would have an impact here. As of now he's on par with Suzuki when it comes to production and better than anyone else on the current roster. Also havihng some solide depth down the middle would be fantastic. That's something we didn't have since.....well a long long time
 

Michoulicious

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I'm not sure about junior, but I don't think he nessecarily wants out of Winnipeg, rather than he seems to want to come here. If he didn't have that desire,he might stay in Winnipeg. However, with the supposed retool/rebuild for the Jets, PLD leaving seems inevitable at this point whether he wants out and not even just to come here, or just out in general, or not
He clearly asked out of Cape-Breton.

He clearly wanted out of Columbus.

Now he clearly doesn't want to commit to Winnipeg, meaning he'll get 100% out at the latest next summer.

I'm not convinced it is the kind of guy you commit to for 8 years as one of your top paid player / leader...

Anyways, if we sign him I hope AT LEAST we don't spend quality assets and get him as a free agent next year.
 
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Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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He clearly asked out of Acadie-Bathurst.

He clearly wanted out of Columbus.

Now he clearly doesn't want to commit to Winnipeg, meaning he'll get 100% out at the latest next summer.

I'm not convinced it is the kind of guy you commit to for 8 years as one of your top paid player / leader...

Anyways, if we sign him I hope AT LEAST we don't spend quality assets and get him as a free agent next year.
He wanted out of Cape Breton ? Did they ever say why?

It's again, a complicated process. He doesn't seem to be mailing it in and wanting to get out of there asap, but if he is, then the whole team is for some reason. Not wanting to commit to a team doesn't mean they don't want to be there. So many players just want to become a free agent and see how much money they want, or they prefer a city to their current one. Players can now get to where they want to play easier.

If you wait until he's a free agent and he doesn't sign with the Habs, then possibly people are right and he didn't really want to be here in the first place and Habs avoid a potential headache.

Now, what I've said a bunch and people ignore, or don't understand is you run the possibility of angering, or upsetting PLD if you wait. There haven't been bread crumbs left that indicate he wants to come here, there have been full on sandwiches left in the media.

Gorton was GM of the Rangers when Trouba wanted to go to the Rangers. Trouba was 1 year from UFA and was RFA when traded. He signed a 1 year deal, took his QO. Rangers acquired him and signed him.

PLD was RFA. Took his QO. He's 1 year away from UFA.

Now, there's a possibility the Habs do get him cheap. Probably not, but there's a chance. Winnipeg might purge some of their players, which means Winnipeg will suck. A sucky Winnipeg wouldn't be scoring as much and PLD will put up less points. A PLD on a team that is trending down (Habs are trending up, but still low) isn't going to care much to play well. Trade deadline an uninterested PLD that's likely set on joining the Habs isn't going to carry much value and they're not likely to get much for him just incase he comes to the new team and doesn't care.

An ideal world, Habs sign PLD, or wait and acquire him at the draft next season with an 8 year contract and they(habs) send over a 3rd for that extra year. However, 32 thoughts podcast said Hughes and Cheveldayoff have had discussions about PLD and the Jets will likely want to deal him and get something, than lose him for nothing next off season.

The rumours would indicate that the Habs will be going for PLD this year and the cost likely won't be that high. Would be awesome to acquire him for a 2nd and a prospect like Rohrer, or something, but time will tell.
 

Sasha Orlov

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He clearly asked out of Acadie-Bathurst.

He clearly wanted out of Columbus.

Now he clearly doesn't want to commit to Winnipeg, meaning he'll get 100% out at the latest next summer.

I'm not convinced it is the kind of guy you commit to for 8 years as one of your top paid player / leader...

Anyways, if we sign him I hope AT LEAST we don't spend quality assets and get him as a free agent next year.
People will make excuses for him endlessly, this has all been said before many times
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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Are you intentionally trying to not get what he's saying?

He clearly didn't say that.

He specifically said that what the Canadiens really need is a true #1 centre and that clogging up $8 million plus on another 60 to 70 point centre will make that much more difficult to do.

Why would you just ignore that and pretend he said they don't need another centre at all? I mean, that is quite obviously not what he said. What is the point of replying to someone if you are going to ignore what they said and then make up your own argument for them?

This is bizarre behaviour.
He never say who, how and when the 100 pts center will come.

I beleive we can win with 3 centers putting between 60 to 70 points. A well balanced team can work.
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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That’s still not even close to what I said. I’m going to finish this post and be done with this topic for awhile because there’s clearly some posters who’re overly emotional when it comes to Dubois. I never once said we didn’t need another Center on top of Suzuki. I said we need an elite offensive center to compliment Suzuki if his offence doesn’t go up drastically. Whether that ends up being Dach, someone else in the organization, or someone outside of it. I don’t view that player as Dubois and I prefer not to get married to the guy the next 7-8-9 years at a high cap to find out.
You never answered the question who, how and when a better center than Dubois will come.
But you don't want him and you don't have big faith in Dach. You go with centers who are 100 to 120 pts without telling us how we're gonna get him. You snubb Dubois and here we are with Dvorak for the next 3 years. . Very enjoyable evenings hockey games for the next 3 years, Cheers !
 
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Scriptor

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Very little risk to the offer sheet move, if Dubois prior to July 5th is willing to sign one year at $6.3M after signing last year for $6.0M.

If the offer sheet is signed, Winnipeg cannot get any trade value for him if they choose to match. No other team will have the chance to get him, play him, win some, and woo him to extend.

And it will be clear to all 31 rival GMs that the smoke about Dubois to MTL is real.

The offer sheet is only tabled on the condition that Dubois signs an extension Jan 1st. Agents can be trusted if the condition is crystal clear, as it was with KK for example.
They can also sign a letter of intent which is binding, but isn't a contract yet, so doesn't go against League rules.

IMO, though, it will never go the offer sheet way and Hughes will not need to threaten such a move.

Chevy's Day Off is on the verge of getting many days off and he will try to get the most out of the situation during the offseason.

Chevy is not in a position to play hard ball and let Dubois Rot just to make a point and I doubt that ownership would consider that a good move for their franchise that already has trouble attracting UFA talent and retaining their own talent.
 
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Spring in Fialta

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Bergevin didn't pick Dvorak to center a rebuild.. they picked Dvorak to replace Danault/Kotkaniemi and remain a competitive team. Bergevin's miscalculations and terrible roster construction finally caught up to him and led to his dismissal and a new management team.

Who in the world would be dumb enough to enter a season with Jake Evans as their second line center? That would be an astoundingly stupid decision, no matter how you feel about Dvorak - who's still a good player.
 
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Jaynki

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Physicality and size are not intangible and can almost be considered the complete opposite of.

in·tan·gi·ble




unable to be touched or grasped; not having physical presence.
"my companions do not care about cyberspace or anything else so intangible"

impalpable,discarnate,untouchable.nonphysical. incorporeal. ethereal spiritual etc. etc. etc.
How do we calculate the impact of physicality, size and grit in the game in a tangible way?

In hockey :

Tangible : goal, assist, shot %, corsi, xGF, etc.

Intangible : (impact of) size, physicality, grit, toughness, leadership, fighting, etc.
 
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