Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[kinghock]

That time already passed. Kopitar lost his defensive prowess.

Doughty lost his defensive prowess as well…

 

[Rapala]

We were having a discussion, I wasn't seeking to negate what you said. It seems to me you agreed with my earlier response.

I don't think PLD is any more than he is today, that is to say a bona fide top6 forward for any NHL team but especially ours given his size and age.

But your logic says Hughes shouldn't have acquired Kirby Dach because he hadn't broken out yet either and didn't take advantage of the opportunities he received in his last year with Chicago either. So what is wrong with this picture?

I don't know how to respond to your final comment. I thought we were talking about the PLD trade -- there's 300 pages of comments about it -- some supporting some opposing, why single me out?

Yeah right how the heck do you even come up with this kind of drivel? Dach was damn near a gift, is still improving, and does not have 6 years of data at this level to give us a fair assessment of his potential. If he doesn't pan out it isn't going to handcuff us. That is the difference.

 

[salbutera]

Friedman also saying as of new 32 Thoughts no discussion between PLD camp and Kings.

PLD talk starts @ 12:30

32 Thoughts: The Podcast

Hockey fans already know the name, but this is not the blog. From Sportsnet, 32 Thoughts: The Podcast with NHL Insider Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas is a weekly deep dive into the biggest news and interviews from the hockey world.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Don't get me wrong, I like PLD alot and maybe mediocre isn't the best word, but he's just not a game breaker. There are MANY players of his talent level around the league.

I wouldn't give much credit to anyone quoting regular 60 pts player as mediocre. Mediocre is Dvorak, Hoffman, Gallagher now and Armia. Many players of that level, yes but they are hard to get. Teams keep players that range and rarelly trade them. Or you have to give equivalent. When you list centers the list is shorter. And when you count centers above 6'2", 60 pts, under age 28, the list is so short than the word MANY doesn't apply.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

It's too bad after all these years of rebuilt and draft choices we don't have anythibg to offer than equals Vilardi. Of course we don't want to give Caufield, Suzuki and Dach. That tells how much our dept with forwards are low compared to most nhl teams. If Peg don't want any of our so called promising forwards (Farrell, Mysak, Mesar, Roy), we just have to watch LA improve, eventually they will be able to beat Oilers in PO and move forward. We, Habs, will watch the parade of the others, and having a long long time rebuilding. Sad.

Lol ive been envious of other teams my entire lifetime , i would 1000% not want to trade positions with LA they are in no mans land much like we were for 2 decades.

Nobody cares or is worried about LA outside of danault lovers and bargain bin apologists

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Dubois is a nice thing to have in your line-up
Dubois is not a must have in your line-up either

There's many of those available in the league.

They are not available and they usually don't want to come here. If we lived long enough we know that.

The only option HuGo can do to become better is another Dach move, a real promising young talent and not another Ylonen, Farrell or Beck. Dach was a bit of a good surprise too, there was a part of a gamble that turned out good, like Suzuki. But a gamble is a gamble.

 

[ReHabs]

Yeah right how the heck do you even come up with this kind of drivel? Dach was damn near a gift, is still improving, and does not have 6 years of data at this level to give us a fair assessment of his potential. If he doesn't pan out it isn't going to handcuff us. That is the difference.

Check your DMs.

Dach had risks associated to him as Dubois does. The logic is the juice should be worth the squeeze. Everybody has different standards and expectations so naturally we can disagree on that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If the reports are true, I'm glad Gorton/Hughes didn't engage on those prices. Once Dubois opened his list to 5/6 teams, that took away the potential leverage we thought we might have. All good, our rebuild is still on a healthy track and maybe Dubois signs with us at age 29/30... after our rebuild is completed and we are looking to fill holes. Maybe by then we still need him... or not.

Adding Dubois would have been nice but it was not like we were desperate. I'm surprised on the rumored report of 5x $7.5M. I guess that fits the Kings window and Brisson/Dubois set themselves up for a much larger cap down the road and joining the Habs when we are possibly contenders.

Now, lets focus on the draft and also trying to unload some contracts. Hoffman, Eddy, Armia.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Lol ive been envious of other teams my entire lifetime , i would 1000% not want to trade positions with LA they are in no mans land much like we were for 2 decades.

Nobody cares or is worried about LA outside of danault lovers and bargain bin apologists

They made the PO two years in a row and are considered better than lot of western teams division. If they add PLD, they become the 3rd best western team, not according to me but to nhl specialists. Get out of your bergevin and danault rant, just watch Kings and you will see the puck move and interresting offensive play, unlike Habs for last 3 decades. If they can afford getting rid of Vilardi to get Dubois, it tells a lot about their players and how their value are considered around the league.

Since last 2 years, did you see how easy Kings beated us, every game, and Danault smiling and cheering with his teamates after the games, well, well well, I repeat, they beat us with ease every time. Did you read what I wrote?

 

[The Real Timo]

Jets should just rebuild. Retooling is for chumps and leaves you in the middle of Nowheresville and a new GM in 2 years.

I am disappointed Marc Bergevin didn't get the TO job, but I'd settle for the Jets. If there is anyone to lead the proper rebuild, that's Bergy.

 

[BaseballCoach]

If the Jets want to trade him to LA, I don't think there is much PLD or the Habs can do about it.

The only scenario to "force" a trade to MTL is for PLD to refuse to sign with the Kings. But, if they are willing to overpay him, it's going to be hard for PLD to say no to LA lifestyle, even if his preference is to play for the habs.

Or LA is willing to risk PLD just being a full year rental, like we did with Alex Tanguay, Robert Lang and Sean Monahan.

Now, LA may well be willing to do that but if so, probably will want to send less valuable assets Winnipeg's way in that case.

 

[SlafySZN]

Pagnotta, he usually is.

It’s Murat Ates who tweeted about the negociation thing first.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dubois is a nice thing to have in your line-up
Dubois is not a must have in your line-up either

There's many of those available in the league.

I'm OK letting Dubois go to the Kings but lets not devalue him grossly. There are not many available like him. That's false. Don't fall into the trap of liking that we didn't add him (cost to acquire to high and cost to sign too high) and then devaluing him in the same process.

It is what it is but it's not easy to find a center like that.

 

[salbutera]

If the reports are true, I'm glad Gorton/Hughes didn't engage on those prices. Once Dubois opened his list to 5/6 teams, that took away the potential leverage we thought we might have. All good, our rebuild is still on a healthy track and maybe Dubois signs with us at age 29/30... after our rebuild is completed and we are looking to fill holes. Maybe by then we still need him... or not.

Adding Dubois would have been nice but it was not like we were desperate. I'm surprised on the rumored report of 5x $7.5M. I guess that fits the Kings window and Brisson/Dubois set themselves up for a much larger cap down the road and joining the Habs when we are possibly contenders.

Now, lets focus on the draft and also trying to unload some contracts. Hoffman, Eddy, Armia.

Where’s this from? Friedman said in latest podcast this morning he’s been positively told there’s been no contract discussion with LAK & Brisson - LeBrun also tweeted the same this morning

 

[Habs Halifax]

It’s Murat Ates who tweeted about the negociation thing first.

Murat Ates was also the one who started all the Dubois/Montreal rumors last off season with his... "Dubois is interested in playing for the Habs and is not afraid of telling members of the Jets organization".

Where’s this from? Friedman said in latest podcast he’s been positively told there’s been no contract discussion with LAK & Brisson

Not really credible but I did read it this morning. I'll see if I can find it. Hard to believe anything right now.

 

[Vachon23]

That really sucks… how do you know for sure? Also, when will the deal be announced at large?

Talk to someone close to the PLD camp and I don’t have a clue haha

 

[Rapala]

Check your DMs.

Dach had risks associated to him as Dubois does. The logic is the juice should be worth the squeeze. Everybody has different standards and expectations so naturally we can disagree on that.

Dach isn't signed for 8yrs at roughly 8m.

 

[BaseballCoach]

This is agonizing even though it shouldn't be. No matter what happens we'll be left underserved. If we do acquire PLD there will be a gnawing feeling that were were forced to overpay for him due to the bidding war. If we don't get him, well, we squandered a chance to move some of our prospects and assets for a bonafide upgrade to our top6 who has size and strength and youth.

Solution: acquire him at the right price.

Don't make a crazy low-ball offer to either the Jets or Dubois. Offer what you judge appropriate and don't try to scrounge for an edge.

Result: you're happy if you get him and you are also happy if you miss out because the price was more than you judged fair.

Dach isn't signed for 8yrs at roughly 8m.

Dach wasn't a year away from UFA, he was coming off ELC. He then signed to precisely one year shy of UFA, go figure.

 

[McGees]

Sir, I'm gonna need you to go ahead and ask you to close this thread.
Nothing more to see here.

 

[MarkJ]

now hold on!

 

[The Nightman]

Edit: Dreger tweet posted above.

Hope Hughes doesn’t give in and offer too much. I like how he was handling this

 

[BaseballCoach]

Only way I see us getting Dubois, assuming Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, and Guhle are off the table, is if Hughes ponies up Slaf or Hutson - or maybe a package with Matheson and Beck.

Why would you ever trade your best defenceman for a guy who will be your third or fourth best forward? Especially when you D is weaker than your F at the moment?

 

[ReHabs]

Dach isn't signed for 8yrs at roughly 8m.

That’s fair. What about Suzuki then?

Suzuki was 22 when his extension kicked in iirc and he hadn’t hit more than 60pts pace at that point. Sometimes you gotta bet on the guy you like. It isn’t often a former 3OA who has steadily improved and is now a regular 60pt player at age 24 will suddenly crash but sure there is a risk of that.

 

[David Suzuki]

thé vachon curse lives?

 

[waitin425]

now hold on!