Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[luthar]

Wasn't that shutdown?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

You know this bust have more 5vs5 goals than a certain Zibanejad since 3 years? What a bum

Why are you even bringing Zibanejad into this lol . Did you read carefully?

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

Nah, it's LA holding it up. Danault lost his sh#t when he found out about this as he will drop to 3C. He is now threatening to not report if LA picks up PLD.

Danault in Blake's office: If you trade for PLD I want out, I'm not doing that 3C shit anymore.


Bergevin hiding behind a plant in the corner of the room: Well I better start packing then, you're not getting rid of me mothaf****.

 

[ReHabs]

Stop it PLEASE
We have at least 4 tree stumps and also a quantity of nearly dead bushes on this team. I'm really not sure what you expect us to do until those are dealt with.
It's been said time and time again we are in no position for a like for like trade. Where exactly are all these wonderful players we are supposed to dangle.
How long has this new management been in place now? Give it break.

I don’t think Hughes should sit on his hands and wait until every bad contract naturally expires. We have about 10m in cap space if Price is placed on LTIR, so unless the acquisition cost is too much (which it very well could be) there isn’t any reason for not improving the on-ice roster for next year.

Rebuilding requires building. You don’t build a winning team without making moves and putting a roster together. Not doing so on account of Gallagher and Armia’s contract is ridiculous. Talk about a sunk cost.

It’s so convenient that our prospect pool is simultaneously hyped and pumped up whenever we’re meant to be complacent and then brushed aside and diminished whenever our team misses out on a trade. It’s a long running trend. We somehow have a promising prospect pool and also cannot spare a single asset from anywhere for fear of catastrophically harming the Habs’ organization.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I thought I was already a star

You are my star atleast!

 

[Ezpz]

Anybody ripping Dubois if he goes to LA is out to lunch ,

Dubois dodged a bullet cuz if he's getting ripped for not signing with Montreal imagine him at 9million putting in a lackadaisical shift every now and then the guy would get crucified in Montreal, he was wise to not come here at 9mill and get the smoke the guy is just not built like that smart move he's not about that life , not a big dog.

I mean the French media defended Drouin and blamed his linemates pretty much until he sat out of the finals run. They would do the same for Dubois.

 

[ReHabs]

I mean the French media defended Drouin and blamed his linemates pretty much until he sat out of the finals run. They would do the same for Dubois.

One other aspect of missing out on PLD is that he seems to really like Montreal as a city and would’ve been a good agent to re-attract local players to Montreal.

I don’t know about anyone else — and it’s fine to disagree — but seeing Suzuki and Caufield embrace Montreal and stay over summer makes me feel better connected to them and makes it seem like they want more than just a paycheque. PLD seems to like Montreal just as much. It would’ve been nice to have him as a demo to other Québécois players that playing in Montreal isn’t bad, and is often good.

Drouin was supported so much by both the media and fans. It was only until the wheels fell off that people got sick of him, and that was partially to do with how much support he got in the media every year.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I don’t think Hughes should sit on his hands and wait until every bad contract naturally expires. We have about 10m in cap space if Price is placed on LTIR, so unless the acquisition cost is too much (which it very well could be) there isn’t any reason for not improving the on-ice roster for next year.

Rebuilding requires building. You don’t build a winning team without making moves and putting a roster together. Not doing so on account of Gallagher and Armia’s contract is ridiculous. Talk about a sunk cost.

It’s so convenient that our prospect pool is simultaneously hyped and pumped up whenever we’re meant to be complacent and then brushed aside and diminished whenever our team misses out on a trade. It’s a long running trend. We somehow have a promising prospect pool and also cannot spare a single asset from anywhere for fear of catastrophically harming the Habs’ organization.

We do have some good prospects, one of the better pools in the league when dissected by people in the know. At the same time, LA has a wider core than Montreal. By and large, prospects are not yet part of that core. Caufield, Suzuki, Matheson and Dach are core but not prospects. Guhle might be considered a prospect but he is the only one of our youngsters that is close enough to core that I would not trade AS THE MAIN PIECE for PLD, provided the extension was within my parameters which is Caufield money at most. Neither is the 5OA or the player we draft with it available for a guy we will be paying upwards of $7.5M for.

However, I would NOT be 'throwing in' prospects with the potential to be part of the core, ON TOP of a main piece, such as a first round pick.

So, the following players would not be available IN ADDITION to a first-round pick (but could be INSTEAD OF a first):

Xhekaj, Barron, Mailloux, Farrell, Heineman, Roy, Hutson, Engstrom, Dobes​

​

That leaves these youngsters as potential sweeteners, any of whom may be interesting to another NHL team:

Primeau, Harris, Beck, Kidney, Mesar, Struble, Trudeau, Kapanen, Mysak, Fairbrother, Norlinder, Rohrer, Guindon, Davidson​

One other aspect of missing out on PLD is that he seems to really like Montreal as a city and would’ve been a good agent to re-attract local players to Montreal.

I don’t know about anyone else — and it’s fine to disagree — but seeing Suzuki and Caufield embrace Montreal and stay over summer makes me feel better connected to them and makes it seem like they want more than just a paycheque. PLD seems to like Montreal just as much. It would’ve been nice to have him as a demo to other Québécois players that playing in Montreal isn’t bad, and is often good.

I get the same "love to be here" vibe from Mike Matheson.

 

[ReHabs]

However, I would NOT be 'throwing in' prospects with the potential to be part of the core, ON TOP of a main piece, such as a first round pick.

It depends what the price will be. Last year LAK acquire Fiala for a song, I don't suspect they'll acquire PLD for too much either. Ultimately they'll somehow manage to have a superior team after this trade while the Habs are always on the verge of catastrophe if they ever consider trading away anything other than "Ryder, Halak, and a 2nd".

We're approaching the 50 contracts limit anyway. Some quantity has to be moved to acquire quality. You have Xhekaj, Barron, Mailloux, Farrell, Heineman, Roy, Hutson, Engstrom, Dobes in your list of "high value prospects". I'm not sure this organization will get anywhere if prospects like Roy, Farrell, and Dobes are considered high value enough to get in the way of acquiring 60pt NHL forwards.

Building a strong roster requires strong players and PLD would be a strong player on any roster in the league. We don't "need" him and it isn't necessarily a problem that we won't get him but I find it strange that the Habs have to take into account player sizes when drafting the future lifeblood of the team (so much for BPA) but when it comes to NHL-ready 60+ point 6'4" players like PLD it's somehow always out of reach even when he's clearly available on the open market. Not yourself but others will argue up and down that not a single asset should be dealt to acquire him. What's the point? I don' get it.

 

[Ezpz]

It depends what the price will be. Last year LAK acquire Fiala for a song, I don't suspect they'll acquire PLD for too much either. Ultimately they'll somehow manage to have a superior team after this trade while the Habs are always on the verge of catastrophe if they ever consider trading away anything other than "Ryder, Halak, and a 2nd".

We're approaching the 50 contracts limit anyway. Some quantity has to be moved to acquire quality. You have Xhekaj, Barron, Mailloux, Farrell, Heineman, Roy, Hutson, Engstrom, Dobes in your list of "high value prospects". I'm not sure this organization will get anywhere if prospects like Roy, Farrell, and Dobes are considered high value enough to get in the way of acquiring 60pt NHL forwards.

Building a strong roster requires strong players and PLD would be a strong player on any roster in the league. We don't "need" him and it isn't necessarily a problem that we won't get him but I find it strange that the Habs have to take into account player sizes when drafting the future lifeblood of the team (so much for BPA) but when it comes to NHL-ready 60+ point 6'4" players like PLD it's somehow always out of reach even when he's clearly available on the open market. Not yourself but others will argue up and down that not a single asset should be dealt to acquire him. What's the point? I don' get it.

I think it's more that this wasn't and isn't the last year of our rebuild. PLD really fits the timeline perfectly next summer. We are not gunning for a playoff spot in 23-24. There's a few great prospects in the top of the 24 draft as well. We will also be pretty sure of the role Guhle, Barron, Harris and Xhekaj will play in this next season. All have already played in the NHL so it's not like their value is going down. If the 2022 draft had had a real top 5 pick in the entire draft we'd be further along, but getting a second/third liner like Slaf pushes us into an extra year of rebuild.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I don’t think Hughes should sit on his hands and wait until every bad contract naturally expires. We have about 10m in cap space if Price is placed on LTIR, so unless the acquisition cost is too much (which it very well could be) there isn’t any reason for not improving the on-ice roster for next year.

Rebuilding requires building. You don’t build a winning team without making moves and putting a roster together. Not doing so on account of Gallagher and Armia’s contract is ridiculous. Talk about a sunk cost.

It’s so convenient that our prospect pool is simultaneously hyped and pumped up whenever we’re meant to be complacent and then brushed aside and diminished whenever our team misses out on a trade. It’s a long running trend. We somehow have a promising prospect pool and also cannot spare a single asset from anywhere for fear of catastrophically harming the Habs’ organization.

I agree with this , we should use some picks to get rid of Armia and players like Dvorak who brings absolutely nothing to the team.
Waiting for them to go UFA is just too long.
As for Gallagher we all know hes going Robidas Island sooner or later
Hoffman we can keep until deadline same as for Edmundson or ship them if u get any pick.

Need to get rid of that junk and change the face of this club.

 

[ReHabs]

I think it's more that this wasn't and isn't the last year of our rebuild. PLD really fits the timeline perfectly next summer. We are not gunning for a playoff spot in 23-24. There's a few great prospects in the top of the 24 draft as well. We will also be pretty sure of the role Guhle, Barron, Harris and Xhekaj will play in this next season. All have already played in the NHL so it's not like their value is going down. If the 2022 draft had had a real top 5 pick in the entire draft we'd be further along, but getting a second/third liner like Slaf pushes us into an extra year of rebuild.

I don’t disagree with you but I’ve argued this elsewhere: we are not in a position to tank next year. With injury (bad) luck that will hopefully regress to the mean next year and across the board improvement of the rookie defenders and Caufield I don’t suspect we will find ourselves holding a top5 draft pick.

So if not PLD then someone, anyone, who can move the roster quality forward. There is no shame in doing it incrementally. Vegas churns through players with ruthless pursuit of their goals.

You can’t rebuild without building and absent hitting on draft picks (with which we happen to be unlucky), I don’t see the point of hoarding non-NHL or non-Core assets.

We’ll see what the final trade will look like and his caphit but to me this was a clear case of an attainable and available upgrade. We know who our are our untouchable assets, anyone and everyone else ought to have been fair game.

 

[Ezpz]

I don’t disagree with you but I’ve argued this elsewhere: we are not in a position to tank next year. With injury (bad) luck that will hopefully regress to the mean next year and across the board improvement of the rookie defenders and Caufield I don’t suspect we will find ourselves holding a top5 draft pick.

So if not PLD then someone, anyone, who can move the roster quality forward. There is no shame in doing it incrementally. Vegas churns through players with ruthless pursuit of their goals.

You can’t rebuild without building and absent hitting on draft picks (with which we happen to be unlucky), I don’t see the point of hoarding non-NHL or non-Core assets.

We’ll see what the final trade will look like and his caphit but to me this was a clear case of an attainable and available upgrade. We know who our are our untouchable assets, anyone and everyone else ought to have been fair game.

I also think acquiring PLD would make sense now if the cost is controlled. The issue is Winnipeg wants to retool as delusional as they are. What roster pieces do we have that could open the conversation but aren't core guys?

In my opinion Dach will be better than PLD in three years time. He's already better by defensive metrics. So taking out Dach, Suzuki and Caufield who do we have?

Anderson, Dvorak may have some value but both have short NTC that likely contain Winnipeg. Eddy the same. I don't believe these guys are as worthless as the main board thinks but I also don't think it's possible to send them to Winnipeg.

After that all we have are futures which Winnipeg have expressed they are not interested in. The only chance we have is to do a three team trade with a team who's rebuilding and needs futures and can flip a good roster player or two. Like Forsberg in Nashville.

The 5D chess LA played is when they acquired our second round pick. We can't offer sheet PLD without it and because they hold it they've leveraged that option away from us since we can no longer require it from Arizona. I almost want to say Bergevin screwed us on purpose in his final summer. Let our top free agent walk to LA. Traded good assets for Dvo, quit and moved to LA months later. Acquired assets he previously moved to target players of interest for us.

 

[ReHabs]

I also think acquiring PLD would make sense now if the cost is controlled. The issue is Winnipeg wants to retool as delusional as they are. What roster pieces do we have that could open the conversation but aren't core guys?

In my opinion Dach will be better than PLD in three years time. He's already better by defensive metrics. So taking out Dach, Suzuki and Caufield who do we have?

Anderson, Dvorak may have some value but both have short NTC that likely contain Winnipeg. Eddy the same. I don't believe these guys are as worthless as the main board thinks but I also don't think it's possible to send them to Winnipeg.

After that all we have are futures which Winnipeg have expressed they are not interested in. The only chance we have is to do a three team trade with a team who's rebuilding and needs futures and can flip a good roster player or two. Like Forsberg in Nashville.

The 5D chess LA played is when they acquired our second round pick. We can't offer sheet PLD without it and because they hold it they've leveraged that option away from us since we can no longer require it from Arizona. I almost want to say Bergevin screwed us on purpose in his final summer. Let our top free agent walk to LA. Traded good assets for Dvo, quit and moved to LA months later. Acquired assets he previously moved to target players of interest for us.

I wouldn’t move Dach for PLD, I don’t see the upside in that situation. Nearly any other asset should’ve been fair game though. We know who our core players are and will be, it isn’t a mystery that Guhle and such are off the table.

As for Bergevin, if only he were this conniving and forward thinking when he was the Habs GM!!

 

[HabsEstrie]

I Hope everyone here is smart enough to recognize this is a typical Bergevin move
Trying to give up way to much to acquire a player he believes is a super star.
Although PLD won’t sign an extension with LA
He still has to meet with them since Brisson and Bergevin set this up.
Hughes and Gorton are NOT going to do the bargain bin method.
They have set an offer they find fair for a 60-70 point player they that and won’t give up prospects for him.
The rumours of Dach for him are laughable!!
Dach will be twice the player PLD will be.
I was certain the Habs we’re getting PLD but had forgotten that Bergevin is now making decisions some where else

 

[slybel]

i'm done with this guy... close the books, dont give in to the trade war..

 

[dinodebino]

I Hope everyone here is smart enough to recognize this is a typical Bergevin move
Trying to give up way to much to acquire a player he believes is a super star.
Although PLD won’t sign an extension with LA
He still has to meet with them since Brisson and Bergevin set this up.
Hughes and Gorton are NOT going to do the bargain bin method.
They have set an offer they find fair for a 60-70 point player they that and won’t give up prospects for him.
The rumours of Dach for him are laughable!!
Dach will be twice the player PLD will be.
I was certain the Habs we’re getting PLD but had forgotten that Bergevin is now making decisions some where else

You are changing your tune? Learned something new?

 

[nhlfan9191]

i'm done with this guy... close the books, dont give in to the trade war..

There is no war. We set a price we’ll pay. It’s up to other teams to outbid us and so far it sounds like only one other team is serious. If LA wants to pay something stupid, that’s their business and out of our control. We aren’t going to go back and forth with them.

 

[KevSkillz4]

f*** PLD, let's develop RHP into a solid top 6 and that's it. RHP will never demand a trade and he want to play in MTL. RHP isn't a Dubois type of player, but he can certainly become a Yanni Gourde for the Habs. Go RHP Go, f*** PLD!!!

 

[McGuires Corndog]

This saga is a f***ing joke. Complete sideshow.

Bet he asks for a trade 2 seasons into being a King.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Always the bridesmaid and never the bride.

 

[vokiel]

This saga is a f***ing joke. Complete sideshow.

Bet he asks for a trade 2 seasons into being a King.

I bet he plainly says no to their extension proposal and that's the end for Chevy.

 

[RC51]

Ok, all we have to do is just wait 3-4 days to see exactly what PLD will do. Right now it's ALL RUMORS. If he goes ? where he goes? for what he goes? for 1 year or for 7 years?.Is he a man of his word or is he just a lier to the habs, to suzuki and caufield for pictures, A lier to hab fans. so Just wait to see the truth of PLD. Yes he has a right to do what he wants so lets see truth of the man before any knocks.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Yeah thats a simple problem that could be fixed though. Don't be a greedy asshole and leave some money on the table and sign a team friendly deal around what Suzuki and Caufield signed.

Right? I mean, I think we all donate one or two million dollars a year to charity - that's pretty standard right? It's no big deal. Sometimes I drop a million dollars on girl guide cookies. I do insist on getting two boxes though (to share with others).

 

[le_sean]

We do have some good prospects, one of the better pools in the league when dissected by people in the know.

I’ve been on this site a long time and this has been the case a few times, ultimately never amounting to anything. Prospects are overrated. The simple fact that you don’t feel like including Xhekaj, Heineman, Roy, Engstrom and Farrell, along with a 1st is proof of that. Xhekaj is vastly overrated since he’s the teams first good enforcer since who knows. The others are just nothing players that most teams have in their pool already.

The only non-NHL Habs prospect that should be “untouchable” (the term is pointless since that mere fact is impossible) is Hutson. He’s the only one that shows special potential.