Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Habs Halifax]

Care to explain how Beck value went up with the year he had? Wanna see who's trying.

Nah, you're too focused at using words like dreaming, homerism and laughing at posts. Have a nice day. Try a different approch next time when there is a disagreement. I'll leave you with this...

Beck is worth 20-32 range 1st a year after being drafted. .

Even one of the global mods who is a Jets fans on the main boards agrees that Beck, Habs 2nd, and Enstrom is equal or close to 2024 TDL value. Not some kid fan who agrees with me so you can take your dreaming, homerism, and laughing somewhere else.

 

[TomKosto]

Nah, you're too focused at using words like dreaming, homerism and laughing at posts. Have a nice day. Try a different approch next time when there is a disagreement. I'll leave you with this...

Beck is worth 20-32 range 1st a year after being drafted. .

Even one of the global mods who is a Jets fans on the main boards agrees that Beck, Habs 2nd, and Enstrom is equal or close to 2024 TDL value. Not some kid fan who agrees with me so you can take your dreaming, homerism, and laughing somewhere else.

Nice arguments right there, enjoy your day. I'll leave it like this, Beck, is not worth a 20th first rounder, a year after being drafted.

 

[Tyson]

Nah, you're too focused at using words like dreaming, homerism and laughing at posts. Have a nice day. Try a different approch next time when there is a disagreement. I'll leave you with this...

Beck is worth 20-32 range 1st a year after being drafted. .

Even one of the global mods who is a Jets fans on the main boards agrees that Beck, Habs 2nd, and Enstrom is equal or close to 2024 TDL value. Not some kid fan who agrees with me so you can take your dreaming, homerism, and laughing somewhere else.

If Winnipeg can land Beck and Engstrom that would be a steal....for Winnipeg.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I'm only offering the Panthers 1st if Dubois is open to sign/trade with several teams and we have to up our offer. My offer starts lower and is around the Trouba trade value. Then maybe we have to include the Panthers 1st or one of our RD's if there are several teams Dubois is willing to sign with. I have a low and higher package. Beck is in both but the Panthers 1st is not in both.

Trading the Panthers 1st knowing it's 14-18 range is different than trading a future pick with protection. We stand to improve but it's difficult to project and if things happen you can't predict, we might end up trading a unprotected pick like the Sens did with Duchene and then the Sharks with Karlsson. Neither of Sens or Sharks planed on what happened.

Still I don't think HuGo will trade the pick until the pick comes up at the draft. If it was 14th and they really like 8 players (as much as Dubois) and one drops to 14 they wouldn't want to miss out. I would only move the pick before the draft if it was the pick by itself for Dubois.

 

[Gillings]

What we do Know:
* He asked out of Columbus and said he wants to play in a big market
* He looked very uninspired after the trade to the Jets. Played well against the Oilers in the 1st round but was invisible against the Habs in the 2nd round.
* A member of the Jets media reports that Dubois is telling members of the organization he wants to play for the Habs.
* He eventually told the Jets shortly after he will not sign past his UFA years.
* His agent says "I can confirm Dubois wants to play for the Habs because he is a RFA and I'm allowed to say it".
* He signs a one year RFA deal and then has a press conference to calm down the noise. Basically says the right things cause the Jets media and fans were listening closely. Says he's focused on this season and helping the Jets make the playoffs as his main message.
* Freeman, Kypreos, and others report during this season that Dubois will be with the Habs either through trade or as a UFA.

After all this, you think he chooses the Bruins?

Lol how many times did you reread this? You honestly think this man believes PLD will go to bruins?

 

[salbutera]

That's not what he said and that's not what the Rangers did.

Hughes said he'd look for opportunities like the Dach trade, but he was realistic about Montreal's timeline to compete for a playoff spot again. People also seem to forget what the Dach trade was. It wasn't Montreal trading a high 1st to get a young NHL with upside, it was Montreal trading a couple of mid-round picks and a young NHLer playing a position that was an area of strength to get a young NHL with upside which addressed an area of weakness.

And for all the expediting the Rangers did in their rebuild, they never traded their first until they already knew they were back in the playoffs (Post-Gorton). Hell, they traded a late 1st and Pionk to get Trouba and signed Panarin in 2019, then traded Skjei the next season so that they could draft twice in the 1st round in 2020 (including 1st OA).

Hughes’ own words:

There’s obviously a group of teams in our division and in our conference that are going through the same process as us, be it a Buffalo, Ottawa or Detroit; and then you’ve got a group of teams that have been there, the Tampas of the world, the Bruins of the world, that all the teams that are coming up are going to have to push out. So I kind of look at it less from “when will we be there?” but more what we need to do before we feel that we have that kind of team. Listen, I think it’s going to be another two, three years … but again, we’re hopeful we have opportunities to trade for good, young players like a Kirby Dach, instead of using a draft pick for it. We’ll try to do that, and that’s kind of a way to expedite the timeline. But we won’t go sign a 28-year-old or 29-year-old to a long-term deal at this point in time to be that much better next season.

NYR traded a 1st in Trouba deal in June 2019 after year 1 of rebuild same time they signed Panarin

It is blatantly obvious Gorton sold Molson on 2-year NYR blueprint. Only difference being high $ acquisitions will take place after year 2 w Habs vs year 1 w NYR - simply due to circumstances

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Montreal's bottom 5 in most team metrics in the NHL. They have more points than they probably should because they've been blown out a ton and have won/picked up points in more than a few games they had no reason to win.

Regarding the first part, that shows how easy it would be easy for the habs to be a better team next year. It's easy to make improvements when you're at the bottom. Just having an average pp instead of a bottom 5 one would lead to several more wins.

The 2nd part makes no sense.

Injuries actually hurt Montreal's tanking chances because Belzile, Richard, Ylonen, RHP, Barron and even Pezzetta have been better than most of the guys who have gone down. The only major injury losses have been Caufield, Dach and Matheson. Maybe Edmundson given how he's been playing recently.

I wouldn't be that optimistic about Montreal's chances next season, Dubois or not.

Caufield alone has a bigger impact than all those depth players you mentioned. And several of those depth players will be back on the team next season.

 

[Gillings]

This thread makes me Nauseous

 

[Scriptor]

Why exactly do you think us trading for him changes that? If anything it makes us committed to matching his demands because we've already paid a high price to acquire him.

If PLD wants max money he will either a) not sign with us and enter UFA anyway, taking the most favorable contact or b) use his leverage as an upcoming UFA to get that inflated contract out of us anyway.


You have no way of preventing him from hitting UFA by trading for him. None. All you're doing is throwing assets down the drain in the process.

If there is no extension in place as part of the trade, you just don't do the trade. That's why that scarecrow has no bite.

I was about to write to the other poster, it's a high risk move but the threat is there which makes it possible. Not just from us but other teams as well.

I don't like the idea of an exposed 1st rounder (like the panthers this year as an example)

The hostile offer sheet only works if the player accepts it. Not sure Dubois would accept it from many teams.

 

[Playmaker09]

If there is no extension in place as part of the trade, you just don't do the trade. That's why that scarecrow has no bite.


The hostile offer sheet only works if the player accepts it. Not sure Dubois would accept it from many teams.

If you've agreed on a price already, there's no reason to give up assets for what will become free in 16 months. That only makes sense for a team who needs his services next year to compete, which is not us.

 

[Paddy17]

I love these pronouncements, like you definitely know.

Where did I say that I definately know? If you're referirng to the statement about Hugues wanting to acquire a third 1st round pick, he has said so explicitely. Just ask anyone on this site and they can confirm with a link maybe. The rest is just speculation.

Settle down.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Interesting to see what will happen here. Probably a move will be made in the summer after the playoffs. Not holding my breath that he'll find his way here. Cheveldayof could move PLD to another city other than Montreal out of spite.

If you are a single man looking to build a life with the right woman, and you hear that one is interested in you but is currently living in another city, but is willing to move to your city, do you contact her and try to get to start up something now/soon, or say you'll wait a year+ until her lease is over, and expect her to be there on all your terms at that time?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Not sure if posted, but Marco brings an interesting twist to potentially getting PLD.

Possible Canadiens Negotiation Tactic To Pry Dubois From Jets

The Montreal Canadiens have an interesting option ahead if they want to force a trade with the Winnipeg Jets to acquire Pierre-Luc Dubois. It’s no secret to the hockey world at this point that the Montreal Canadiens have been linked to Dubois for the better part of the last eight months. NHL...

montrealhockeynow.com

 

[CHwest]

Where did I say that I definately know? If you're referirng to the statement about Hugues wanting to acquire a third 1st round pick, he has said so explicitely. Just ask anyone on this site and they can confirm with a link maybe. The rest is just speculation.

Settle down.

That is what I was referring to.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Hughes’ own words:


NYR traded a 1st in Trouba deal in June 2019 after year 1 of rebuild same time they signed Panarin

It is blatantly obvious Gorton sold Molson on 2-year NYR blueprint. Only difference being high $ acquisitions will take place after year 2 w Habs vs year 1 w NYR - simply due to circumstances

Did you really just quote Hughes saying (in response to when Montreal may make the playoffs) that he thinks that "it’s going to be another two, three years" and then immediately say that its "blatantly obvious Gorton sold Molson on 2-year NYR blueprint"? Really?

The context is all there and its clearer in the actual interview. I don't even know how you could think that. The reason that Davidson and Gorton were fired by Dolan were that they wanted to be more patient and Dolan didn't want to be patient. And you think its obvious that Gorton went to Molson and said: Hey Geoff, you saw the job I did in New York? I know I was just fired for preaching patience, but actually what you need is to be even more aggressive than I was in New York. I'm talking a couple of years max.

Jim Dolan’s Rangers vision clashed with John Davidson-Jeff Gorton blueprint

The Letter is in the past. The past is in the rearview mirror with Davidson and Gorton. This is all about the future. Development has left Penn Station.

nypost.com

James Dolan sets fire to the Rangers' rebuild with dismissals of its architects, John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

Dolan fired the Rangers' president, Davidson, and GM, Gorton, because of the team's failure to make the playoffs, according to a source.

theathletic.com

 

[Scriptor]

If you feel PLD is "available to acquire" then any other player in the league also fits that description,

PLD is under contract

Are you being deliberately obtuse to make me waste time?

If you are, it now falls into troll territory.

Let me ask you this question to give you your answer:

Out of all the NHL players under contract -- in this instance, 24 year-old RFAs worth something -- how many have told their respective teams (privately) that they would not sign with them beyond their RFA years only to see that team help make it public that you will not sign with them beyond those years?

Does that not, to you, make the player imminently available to acquire?

Out of those players (you do realize it is not that many, if any more than Dubois), how many have made it public, even if by a third party, that they would not be against playing in Montreal?

Does that not, to you, make the player imminently available to acquire by Montreal, specifically?

You do realize that your list, with public display of being agreeable to play in Montreal now falls to ONE player, if there were any more in the other category?

 

[Draft]

If you are a single man looking to build a life with the right woman, and you hear that one is interested in you but is currently living in another city, but is willing to move to your city, do you contact her and try to get to start up something now/soon, or say you'll wait a year+ until her lease is over, and expect her to be there on all your terms at that time?

Come on, like anyone on this board knows what it's like to have a woman interested in them. Need a more relatable metaphor.

 

[Scriptor]

I love these pronouncements, like you definitely know.

You do realize that nobody posts anything that they definitely know on this forum, right, and that it's a wish for this poster? At least, nobody is claiming inside knowledge as though they were Eklund or something.

Much more importantly, Kadri is closer to my age than to Dubois's age, and I'm old enough to have been in age to father a few members of the actual edition of the Habs.

EDIT : My bad. "nearly closer to my age than to Dubois's age" but the principle remains the same.

I was giving more credit to the original poster and had thought they were referring to when Kadri left Toronto.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Regarding the first part, that shows how easy it would be easy for the habs to be a better team next year. It's easy to make improvements when you're at the bottom. Just having an average pp instead of a bottom 5 one would lead to several more wins.

The 2nd part makes no sense.



Caufield alone has a bigger impact than all those depth players you mentioned. And several of those depth players will be back on the team next season.

It also shows how they could be worse. Its hard to make improvements when you're still trying to build methodically and have a lot of poor contracts. You can play well and see massive swings in actual wins just from the nature of the game. These things aren't linear, there's a lot that just happens.

And 4 of Montreal's top 6 5v5 P/60 performers are from Laval (Belzile, Richard, Ylonen, RHP). 5 of the 11 players on the team with a postitive 5v5 goal differential played on Laval. RHP in particular has better splits with Suzuki than Dach does. I don't think you appreciate how much they've been messing up the tank.

 

[Playmaker09]

If you are a single man looking to build a life with the right woman, and you hear that one is interested in you but is currently living in another city, but is willing to move to your city, do you contact her and try to get to start up something now/soon, or say you'll wait a year+ until her lease is over, and expect her to be there on all your terms at that time?

To get her to come you will have to pay off her leases/debts in her former city. Are you paying it off for her for the chance it might work out, even though she's been divorced twice (always been her ex's fault not hers, of course)?

Or you can wait a year pay nothing and see if the timing works out for everyone, and if it doesn't it doesn't.

 

[Scriptor]

This thread makes me Nauseous

Damn! Had it made you Nostradamus instead, we might have some riddle to decipher that lets us know ahead of time, ho this whole Dubois thing plays out.

Ah well...

If you've agreed on a price already, there's no reason to give up assets for what will become free in 16 months. That only makes sense for a team who needs his services next year to compete, which is not us.

Seriously, what are you talking about?

 

[Scriptor]

That is what I was referring to.

Is there a link where we can send posts for prior approval from you, according to your specific criteria?

 

[salbutera]

Did you really just quote Hughes saying (in response to when Montreal may make the playoffs_Listen, I think it’s going to be another two, three years) that he thinks that "it’s going to be another two, three years" and then immediately say that its "blatantly obvious Gorton sold Molson on 2-year NYR blueprint"? Really?

The context is all there and its clearer in the actual interview. I don't even know how you could think that. The reason that Davidson and Gorton were fired by Dolan were that they wanted to be more patient and Dolan didn't want to be patient. And you think its obvious that Gorton went to Molson and said: Hey Geoff, you saw the job I did in New York? I know I was just fired for preaching patience, but actually what you need is to be even more aggressive than I was in New York. I'm talking a couple of years max.

Jim Dolan’s Rangers vision clashed with John Davidson-Jeff Gorton blueprint

The Letter is in the past. The past is in the rearview mirror with Davidson and Gorton. This is all about the future. Development has left Penn Station.

nypost.com

James Dolan sets fire to the Rangers' rebuild with dismissals of its architects, John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

Dolan fired the Rangers' president, Davidson, and GM, Gorton, because of the team's failure to make the playoffs, according to a source.

theathletic.com

Did you miss the portion right after without taking a breath, where Hughes says (as underlined):
“but again, we’re hopeful we have opportunities to trade for good, young players like a Kirby Dach, instead of using a draft pick for it. We’ll try to do that, and that’s kind of a way to expedite the timeline”

 

[Scriptor]

Did you miss the portion right after without taking a breath, where Hughes says (as underlined):
“but again, we’re hopeful we have opportunities to trade for good, young players like a Kirby Dach, instead of using a draft pick for it. We’ll try to do that, and that’s kind of a way to expedite the timeline”

I don't know what to say. Obviously, some posters don't read every post, or they have trouble with reading comprehension.

Often, despite clear explanations, or cited sources, the same arguments creep up against despite having been debunked.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

It also shows how they could be worse. Its hard to make improvements when you're still trying to build methodically and have a lot of poor contracts. You can play well and see massive swings in actual wins just from the nature of the game. These things aren't linear, there's a lot that just happens.

It definitely doesn't show they can be worse. A team that is already at the bottom, and is as young as the habs, who have had a historic injury season, and who has been adding good players (Farrell, RHP, Gurianov, Dubois?, etc.), is highly unlikely to not improve.
Several of those poor contracts are gone this summer (Monahan, Byron, Dadonov, Drouin).

And 4 of Montreal's top 6 5v5 P/60 performers are from Laval (Belzile, Richard, Ylonen, RHP). 5 of the 11 players on the team with a postitive 5v5 goal differential played on Laval. RHP in particular has better splits with Suzuki than Dach does. I don't think you appreciate how much they've been messing up the tank.

The notion that Belzile, Richard, Ylonen, and RHP have messed up the tank is laughable. The top scorer in that list has 17 pts lol.