Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[CanadienShark]

Why are we restricting ourselves to one or the other? If both are available and we can trade from a position of strength, trade for both.

PLD is a possible circumstantial trade due to him forcing his way to UFA and we do know he would sign with us.

Hart is property of the Flyers and are we assuming they let him go like the Hawks traded Dach?



If we don't win the lottery, there is like a 33% chance someone leap frogs us. So yeah, we are looking at 1,2 or 5-8 range.

I just can't stop wondering who in the 3-8 range wins one of the lottery spots (or both). Back/back drafts where last place won the lottery.

I'm not a PLD fan. If he comes cheap, sure, but I don't want to pay big assets to give him a big contract on top.

 

[WeThreeKings]

PLD is not the elite piece we're missing on offense.

He's a nice player, and if he comes as a UFA at a reasonable cost (less than Suzuki/Caufield) great.

Otherwise who cares. If he wants to be our Tavares, f***ing up our cap structure, then he's more than welcome to get paid somewhere else.

Teams don't win cups paying free agents premium rates. Stick to the plan of drafting/developing.

They can still draft and develop and add a good young player to their team.

I don't get why the plan has to be either only acquire picks and draft/develop or trade everything for players.

The Habs managed a nice balance last season with Dach and Barron. They can do the same here with PLD and Gurianov.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not a PLD fan. If he comes cheap, sure, but I don't want to pay big assets to give him a big contract on top.

I am a Dubois fan cause a center like this is valuable with other things he brings beyond points. You don't find proven top 2C's who are good at actually playing center and bring the big physical body that skates well.

Too many fans are looking at his points to evaluate and if you think that is fair, you should be doing that with Suzuki cause he might stay in the 60-70 range as well. After all, Suzuki is less than one year younger than Dubois so if you think Suzuki can grow in his prime with better talent, so can Dubois. Suzuki/Dubois 1/2 punch with Dach in the mix as a puck possession winger is a very good mix. Add Caufield and if Slaf reaches his potential we have a very good situation. Then we keep working at adding more talent cause it's not like we will be spenders just cause we add Dubois. He's only 2.5 years older than Dach

Habs have lots of pieces we can offer if we trade for him. If the costs grows too much, we can wait till he is UFA. If he don't reach UFA, that means he really doesn't want to play for the Habs. It's not like our roster is trash and in a bad direction and we won't pay him fairly. The $9M+ narratives are flawed cause Horvat, Larkin, and Hintz didn't get it. Dubois is very similar value to them.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

I generally agree, except:

-I don't think Dubois necessarily makes Montreal legit going forward, I think it means that Montreal could be the current Winnipeg Jets going forward. For Montreal to be legit, they need serious growth from current players and/or hit it out of the park at the draft.

-I don't think there would be a better cap deal. The UFA-1 deal AAVs are usually UFA prices or more.

Yes, especially defensively speaking, that's where the growth could be the difference maker that the Jets never had. Let's hope everyone keeps developping nicely

 

[CanadienShark]

I am a Dubois fan cause a center like this is valuable with other things he brings beyond points. You don't find proven top 2C's who are good at actually playing center and bring the big physical body that skates well.

Too many fans are looking at his points to evaluate and if you think that is fair, you should be doing that with Suzuki cause he might stay in the 60-70 range as well. After all, Suzuki is less than one year younger than Dubois so if you think Suzuki can grow in his prime with better talent, so can Dubois. Suzuki/Dubois 1/2 punch with Dach in the mix as a puck possession winger is a very good mix. Add Caufield and if Slaf reaches his potential we have a very good situation. Then we keep working at adding more talent cause it's not like we will be spenders just cause we add Dubois. He's only 2.5 years older than Dach

Habs have lots of pieces we can offer if we trade for him. If the costs grows too much, we can wait till he is UFA. If he don't reach UFA, that means he really doesn't want to play for the Habs. It's not like our roster is trash and in a bad direction and we won't pay him fairly. The $9M+ narratives are flawed cause Horvat, Larkin, and Hintz didn't get it. Dubois is very similar value to them.

Again, I'd take him for a cheap trade and a fair contract. If he wants $9m+ and is going to cost us a 1st + good prospect +, I'm not particularly interested. I don't really like Dubois as a player. Just my opinion.

 

[Playmaker09]

They can still draft and develop and add a good young player to their team.

I don't get why the plan has to be either only acquire picks and draft/develop or trade everything for players.

The Habs managed a nice balance last season with Dach and Barron. They can do the same here with PLD and Gurianov.

You trade for him and you're almost forced to pay him what he wants, otherwise he's a 1 year rental in a season we don't care about, and you've just extended our rebuild several years.

Dach was an RFA with no leverage coming off mutiple injury plagued seasons and poor performances.

The ONLY way I want PLD is on favorable terms. If he wants to sign with us for sub-market value I'm all for it. He is not a needle mover.

 

[Colezuki]

Yes, especially defensively speaking, that's where the growth could be the difference maker that the Jets never had. Let's hope everyone keeps developping nicely

I don't think that's fair, Morrissey has turned into a Norris, Trouba became a top pair guy and even Pionk has been a nice piece. They we're wrecked by byfuligen retiring and Trouba leaving. If Buff hadn't retired I think they would've gone on a couple more runs

 

[Playmaker09]

Again, I'd take him for a cheap trade and a fair contract. If he wants $9m+ and is going to cost us a 1st + good prospect +, I'm not particularly interested. I don't really like Dubois as a player. Just my opinion.

He has us by the balls if we trade for him.

 

[WeThreeKings]

You trade for him and you're almost forced to pay him what he wants, otherwise he's a 1 year rental in a season we don't care about, and you've just extended our rebuild several years.

Dach was an RFA with no leverage coming off mutiple injury plagued seasons and poor performances.

The ONLY way I want PLD is on favorable terms. If he wants to sign with us for sub-market value I'm all for it. He is not a needle mover.

They're not going to trade for him without knowing his contract demands, the same way Bergevin knew what he was going to have to pay Anderson in term and money before they pulled the trigger on that deal.

If PLD talked with the Habs and wanted more money than they were comfortable with, while this being the only place he wants to play presumably, then something isn't adding up and they can just not pull the trigger on the deal.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

He has us by the balls if we trade for him.

You think Hughes is making any moves without an idea what an extension to PLD is going to cost? Come on man, the guy was an agent forever.

I’d be willing to wager a large sum PLD can be signed with us for a sim. contract as Suzuki. Which is fair value.

He can more than make up monetary value with local sponsorship deals, he would be a big deal here.

 

[Paddy17]

how does it not make sense for PLD??

He would get a huge contract and be #1C on a perennial cup contending team,

that makes perfect sense for him

So he would #1C on a perennial contender, but he's barely a 60-point center not worth acquiring for the Habs...

Which argument should we use then?

 

[Rozz]

He ain't worth that,



Dvo straight up is the most I would do,



You are getting obsessed by his background



take off the french goggles your looking through

Troll alert!

 

[Adriatic]

He has us by the balls if we trade for him.

Don't you think Hughes knows exactly what kind of contract Dubois is looking for?? You would have to be one bonehead gm to trade for player and give up assets without knowing his salary demands. What ever he gets paid after we trade for him won't be a surprise to Hughes.

 

[Scriptor]

I get all the points and I will take him right away if it takes Dvorak and some B prospect but it will take a lot more than that to get him right away so that's why I'm hoping for him just signing here as a UFA.

Fair enough. I understand the stance that some would want him, but don't want to risk losing what they consider valuable assets for him.

I just don't buy those who say they would take him as an UFA, but then take pleasure in ragging on the player at the same time. That makes no sense to me in terms of credibility about even wanting the player in the first place.

It's fairly normal to want the best of both worlds; keep the FLA first or any other picks that might be involved a trade for Dubois, keep Beck, etc.

 

[TomKosto]

A lot of teams aren't going to be ponying up a very big offer either if he's 95% coming here.

Habs are not going to negotiate against themselves.

Absolutely not, but he will get a first + prospect from us or someone else, the kids is good and can be acquire as a one year rental. We see a lot of pending ufa get dealt for first rounder at the deadline, why would they trade him for less than that? He will return more than a 2nd + Beck, bet the house on it. I also agree we should wait for him to be ufa, maximizing our assets.

 

[Playmaker09]

You think Hughes is making any moves without an idea what an extension to PLD is going to cost? Come on man, the guy was an agent forever.

I’d be willing to wager a large sum PLD can be signed with us for a sim. contract as Suzuki. Which is fair value.

He can more than make up monetary value with local sponsorship deals, he would be a big deal here.

If you know -for a fact- what he's going to cost, then why trade for him? Just wait. He's a UFA in 16 months. We don't need him right now anyway.

The only reason to trade for him is to secure early negotiating rights and work with him on price, which as I mentioned in my post is counter productive in our situation as it gives him all the negotiating power and we really aren't in a position to be trading away first round picks for no reason.

If you already know his price and his preference to play here, and you feel that price is reasonable, then you can just sign him in 16 months.

What benefit are we receiving to pay the cost of securing his services a year early? You're just throwing assets down the drain.

I feel like we're talking in circles.

 

[TomKosto]

That's Beck. He's closer to NHL and is worth 20-32 range 1st today.

No, he's not. He was selected 33rd overall and his stocks didn't rise with a 66pts in 60games season. I'm not saying he will not be worth that in the future, but to think that right now, Beck value is a 20th pick overall is homerism at this point....

 

[McGees]

Caufield and PLD all get Suzi's contract since he is the captain and sets standard.
There.

 

[Scriptor]

He wants to trade Barron away? What is this even?

Seriously, you're misunderstanding or misrepresenting would live with trading Barron and actively looking to trade Barron for Dubois.

I would rather trade Barron than Mailloux, even if I know that Mailloux is still about potential, despite a good showing in Juniors.

Barron, to me, has improved a lot, but is still prone to bad defensive coverage and really not very physical for a 6'2" D. I doubt that the physical side can be improved because it is often a question of personality. The defensive coverage can be inproved, though.

 

[TomKosto]

A

there’s a full frontal attack going on - PLDs agent has gone public, now someone likely from Habs side has leaked info to Friedman and Jets enter the offseason with 3-pending UFAs and a disgruntled pending RFA who’s let it be known his goal is one destination.

Even the Trouba situation never had anywhere close to this kind of public drama - Jets have lost all leverage

Any other team looking to make an offer for PLD will also lowball since it’s clear he’s publicly stated his desires locale - Chevys best offer will be HuGos at days end

We got a first for f***ing Ben Chiarrot, PLD is returning a first +. I mean that's a pretty "low offer" considering PLD is a big 65pts center.

 

[Draft]

How long do people think that picks and prospects stay with the team for? We have THEORETICALLY (but not functionally) 9 years from the time they're drafted until they're UFA at 27. When they start in the NHL plays a huge role in this. 1-4 of those years will likely be development. So we could be looking at... maybe 5-7yrs of actually playing on the team and not until 1-4 years from now? This is a simplification, but it wouldn't be the first time a player signed a contract until they're 27 and left the team they were drafted by.

Having a player signed for 8yrs through their prime is as much of a long term move as this picks/prospects business - and we don't have a single pick or prospect at a Dubois level.

 

[Scriptor]

I assume that was the original plan. They wanted a third 1st rounder from either a Monahan or Eddy deal to use as currency, but that didn't work out. I too think they don't touch that Florida 1st.

In a perfect world, we make a trade for Dubois and it doesn't involve much other than players who aren't projected to be part of our future and no more than our 2nd round pick.

I don't think there is a trade without one element we would ideally not have traded going WIN's way. Minimizing what that element will be is key!

I'm not really sold on the idea that MON doesn't agree to touch the FLA first if it is a 14th, 15th, or 16th OA pick.

Didn't they trade Romanov for a 13th OA and then trade the 13th OA in 2022 for Dach?

Dubois is also a 3rd OA pick, like Dach, and essentially, Dach minus the uncertainty at the time of the trade for Dach.

You'd think that trading a 14th, 15th or 16th OA pick wouldn't be that deplorable a move in HuGo's eyes?

Or, maybe, it is as a cumulative with other pieces going WIN's way that makes that makes the pick too expensive a pay-off?

 

[salbutera]

We got a first for f***ing Ben Chiarrot, PLD is returning a first +. I mean that's a pretty "low offer" considering PLD is a big 65pts center.

I agree Chevaldayoff needs to maximize value on PLD trade but he’s in a serious bind w 3-potential UFAs pending (Hellebuyck, Wheeler & Scheifle) and having nothing in their system.

I’m not convinced True North will give the go ahead for a full rebuild, and what if Chevaldayoff simply says f*ck it I’ll find another GM gig in a more attractive market?

Can’t simply just compare Chiarot trade to PLD in a bubble… there are many other variables at play, least of which is how to not completely lose the PR battle and at least keep Winter-peg attractive to Northern mid-western players (Minny, Wisconsin, Michigan) which makes up close to 30% of their roster…and not by coincidence either

 

[Paddy17]

The week leading up to the draft and the draft itself will be quite interesting. Hugues definately wants to acquire another 1st to use as currency, like he did when he knew that was the asking price for Dach.

Bettman might just have another announcement starting with "We have two trades to announce..."

 

[salbutera]

In a perfect world, we make a trade for Dubois and it doesn't involve much other than players who aren't projected to be part of our future and no more than our 2nd round pick.

I don't think there is a trade without one element we would ideally not have traded going WIN's way. Minimizing what that element will be is key!

I'm not really sold on the idea that MON doesn't agree to touch the FLA first if it is a 14th, 15th, or 16th OA pick.

Didn't they trade Romanov for a 13th OA and then trade the 13th OA in 2022 for Dach?

Dubois is also a 3rd OA pick, like Dach, and essentially, Dach minus the uncertainty at the time of the trade for Dach.

You'd think that trading a 14th, 15th or 16th OA pick wouldn't be that deplorable a move in HuGo's eyes?

Or, maybe, it is as a cumulative with other pieces going WIN's way that makes that makes the pick too expensive a pay-off?

Todays NHL is all about contract status and a players value (for all but exceptional talents who rarely get traded), is all about how many years till UFA rights. The closer a player is to UFA the less value in the market place - relatively speaking

PLD is 1-full season away from UFA, Dach & Romanov were coming out of ELC - both Isles & Habs had cost control for a number of years still