Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Big Lurk]

The last 3rd overall we traded for didn't quite meet expectations

Quite happy with Dach!

 

[Tyson]

Quite happy with Dach!

Yeah I got corrected on that one. Like I said in an earlier post, I should have also included the word francophone

 

[Habs 4 Life]

I'm not saying don't trade for Dubois, I'm saying recognize what he is. I don't want to compare this to the Drouin situation because Dubois is already a better player than Drouin was ever reasonably expected to be based on what he'd done in the AHL and NHL, but lets actually look at Dubois dispassionately:

1) He's a career high 61 point player playing premium minutes.
2) He uses his frame well and his defensive game has grown to the point that its a positive.
3) He's not (or hasn't been) an "offensive player", he's generally been a mediocre point producer 5v5 with most of his damage is done on the PP.
4) He's improving, but still mediocre at faceoffs.
5) He's going to be looking for big money.

To me, that's a player Montreal can certainly use and Montreal should be interested because he's young and it appears as though he wants to play in Montreal, but he's not worth going crazy over.

See, the thing is I see it just a little considering how hard it is for the Habs to go after such players. For once a player with that much potential at a young age from what is reported, really wants to play here. I don't think I would throw the bank for him, but for once the Habs can use it to their advantage on a trade situation and not give up too much to get him. Adding him in our top 6 makes us legit going forward, and he blends in to the age average of the team's core. Again, depends on costs, but I'd be all over this after the season rather than wait for him to be UFA. Get that extra year and work out a better cap deal on that extra season

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yeah I got corrected on that one. Like I said in an earlier post, I should have also included the word francophone

The last 3rd OA francophone actually sucked ass.. I don't have anywhere near the same concerns here. We know the floor of Dubois.. even if we pay the Trouba acquisition cost, having a 6'3" physical C/LW that can put up 50+ pts every year is still a very valuable hockey player.

 

[Tyson]

Remember the shift when Tortorella was coach in Columbus when PLD went out on the ice for a shift and floated through the entire shift without being engaged?
It led to his benching. No character issues there. We don't need him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I like the idea of PLD but not at any price or any salary.

If you make the move I think you need permission to negotiate a LT deal with him before the trade happens. You can't make the deal and then have him wanting $10M= per season. IMO the suzuki deal is the max. You can't afford too many $8M players. 14-22 are the priority right now. Some of the kids coming will need big contracts too in 3-4 years. Willing to pay Jets more to have the privilege to negotiate 1st.

2nd be damn sure he fits into your culture. He has wanted out from 2 teams.... that is a red flag. The last thing this group needs is a prima donna to mess up the culture they have built.

So yes due your due diligence and if price is right in terms of trade and contract dollars- you make the move but tread carefully

1) I agree that the price needs to be from a position of strength if we trade for Dubois. Kind of like the Romanov/picks for Dach.

2) Also agree that the contract needs to be close to Suzuki. Max I would go is the Horvat, Larkin, Hintz deals. Horvat and Larkin didn't get signing bonus structure so it's very possible we get the 8x Suzuki cap hit but with more than 50% of the contract paid as signing bonus. And we possible offer the NMC. These things can help us get the AAV down.

3) It has to be mutual interest. Dubois wanting to play for the Habs and the Habs wanting him part of our growing core for his prime years. So yeah, the contract can't be a max AAV type. Has to be fair to both sides.

3) Wanting out of 2 teams might be because he wants to play for the Habs. Gorton/Hughes know this information, we don't entirely

 

[Habs 4 Life]

I can’t wait to see Jets fans reactions for PLDs actually value when he doesn’t get Dach+FLA 1st.

The fact that someone really mentionned Dach and the Jets actually think they have a shot at getting him in return LOL. The best player they would be getting back at best is Dvorak in my opinion

 

[Habs Halifax]

Remember the shift when Tortorella was coach in Columbus when PLD went out on the ice for a shift and floated through the entire shift without being engaged?
It led to his benching. No character issues there. We don't need him.

Remember Caufield playing with Ducharme as his coach? Very unispired play there too

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Remember Caufield playing with Ducharme as his coach? Very unispired play there too

The habs have also been playing better since Caufield went down
#lockeroomcancer

 

[junyab]

People are gonna be so sad when he doesn't end up here.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The fact that someone really mentionned Dach and the Jets actually think they have a shot at getting him in return LOL. The best player they would be getting back at best is Dvorak in my opinion

I do wonder what their long game would be if they trade Dubois and also consider trading Scheifele and Helle. Fans can say they don't want Dvorak but they will need some centers to play. What are they going to do? Sign someone like Dvorak at the same cap hit/term as him?

What are the centers that are available this summer? The list don't look good. So yeah, Dvorak could be a piece they easily take back as the NHL contract. Hard to guess on though

People are gonna be so sad when he doesn't end up here.

I'm 60-80% sure he comes so I'm 20-40% ready if he don't

 

[Tyson]

Remember Caufield playing with Ducharme as his coach? Very unispired play there too

Wow two very different scenarios. One was a veteran, one was a rookie playing for a team in total disarray. That's a stretch man.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wow two very different scenarios. One was a veteran, one was a rookie playing for a team in total disarray. That's a stretch man.

It is a bit of a stretch but I really don't like the character attacks for Dubois who has a very good proven track record as a 24 year old.

I have no doubt he will bring it for MSL like most if not all our players are at the moment. That is not good reason not to trade for Dubois so that's a stretch as well. That was just a moment of his life where he was annoyed by his coach and Torts has history.

 

[JustAHabFan]

The last 3rd OA francophone actually sucked ass.. I don't have anywhere near the same concerns here. We know the floor of Dubois.. even if we pay the Trouba acquisition cost, having a 6'3" physical C/LW that can put up 50+ pts every year is still a very valuable hockey player.

I am more worried about overpaying him for what he will produce.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

I do wonder what their long game would be if they trade Dubois and also consider trading Scheifele and Helle. Fans can say they don't want Dvorak but they will need some centers to play. What are they going to do? Sign someone like Dvorak at the same cap hit/term as him?

What are the centers that are available this summer? The list don't look good. So yeah, Dvorak could be a piece they easily take back as the NHL contract. Hard to guess on though



I'm 60-80% sure he comes so I'm 20-40% ready if he don't

Absolutely, and he isn't a bad player. The best centers out there as of now as UFA are ROR, Bergeron ( both 0% chance of signing in Winnipeg, followed by Max Domi.... So ya, Dvorak wouldn't be a bad addition for them.

 

[BergevinBurner]

Wow two very different scenarios. One was a veteran, one was a rookie playing for a team in total disarray. That's a stretch man.

PLD was 22, calling him a veteran is a bit of a stretch.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I am more worried about overpaying him for what he will produce.

Off-set by trading Josh Anderson.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I am more worried about overpaying him for what he will produce.

Is Suzuki going to be overpaid if he stays around 60-70 pts? And are you thinking Dubois wants $9M+ when Horvat, Larkin, and Hintz all go less than $9M recently?

Think about what a top 2C will be paid in 3+ years with a cap in the $90M+ range? Best to get him locked up now cause if you try to add a top 2C later (3+ years), it will cost you $10M (+/-).

Once the NHLPA outstanding balance is paid, the cap is going to grow substantially and agents are going to make GM's take fits with long term AAV's... especially UFA years.

 

[Tyson]

PLD was 22, calling him a veteran is a bit of a stretch.

Perhaps but he had played 2 full seasons. Young Veteran...better?

It is a bit of a stretch but I really don't like the character attacks for Dubois who has a very good proven track record as a 24 year old.

I have no doubt he will bring it for MSL like most if not all our players are at the moment. That is not good reason not to trade for Dubois so that's a stretch as well. That was just a moment of his life where he was annoyed by his coach and Torts has history.

You don't like the character attacks? Should we all just wait for the memo from you on what we should say or feel?
It's called a dialogue of differing opinions. I respect your views.
Personally I am not a fan of this player, you are...

I personally think his character lacks.

 

[Captain Mountain]

See, the thing is I see it just a little considering how hard it is for the Habs to go after such players. For once a player with that much potential at a young age from what is reported, really wants to play here. I don't think I would throw the bank for him, but for once the Habs can use it to their advantage on a trade situation and not give up too much to get him. Adding him in our top 6 makes us legit going forward, and he blends in to the age average of the team's core. Again, depends on costs, but I'd be all over this after the season rather than wait for him to be UFA. Get that extra year and work out a better cap deal on that extra season

I generally agree, except:

-I don't think Dubois necessarily makes Montreal legit going forward, I think it means that Montreal could be the current Winnipeg Jets going forward. For Montreal to be legit, they need serious growth from current players and/or hit it out of the park at the draft.

-I don't think there would be a better cap deal. The UFA-1 deal AAVs are usually UFA prices or more.

 

[Playmaker09]

People are gonna be so sad when he doesn't end up here.

PLD is not the elite piece we're missing on offense.

He's a nice player, and if he comes as a UFA at a reasonable cost (less than Suzuki/Caufield) great.

Otherwise who cares. If he wants to be our Tavares, f***ing up our cap structure, then he's more than welcome to get paid somewhere else.

Teams don't win cups paying free agents premium rates. Stick to the plan of drafting/developing.

 

[Canadienna]

Would you make this fan trade? Difficult one to decide on

Snowman from the Jets fan base
for
Matt... I'm assuming he's a Habs fan

Bro no deal. I'm gonna need at least a solid GDT creator to take on Snowman.

 

[salbutera]

I generally agree, except:

-I don't think Dubois necessarily makes Montreal legit going forward, I think it means that Montreal could be the current Winnipeg Jets going forward. For Montreal to be legit, they need serious growth from current players and/or hit it out of the park at the draft.

-I don't think there would be a better cap deal. The UFA-1 deal AAVs are usually UFA prices or more.

Or keep using draft currency to make targeted upgrade acquisitions like Dach..

Gorton’s career strength has always been pro player moves vs amateur

 

[Tyson]

PLD is not the elite piece we're missing on offense.

He's a nice player, and if he comes as a UFA at a reasonable cost (less than Suzuki/Caufield) great.

Otherwise who cares. If he wants to be our Tavares, f***ing up our cap structure, then he's more than welcome to get paid somewhere else.

Teams don't win cups paying free agents premium rates. Stick to the plan of drafting/developing.

Holy crap...logic

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bro no deal. I'm gonna need at least a solid GDT creator to take on Snowman.

Yeah, Snowman is over the top. Imagine his behaver if Dubois is traded to the Habs close to a Trouba trade value?