Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Adam Michaels]

I love how for LA, the trade proposals suggest Byfield or Vilardi. While for the Habs it requires Dach, Suzuki or Caufield. Those players do not have comparable trade value.

Byfield is struggling big time to make it to the pros. Vilardi was in fire during the first month last year, but then cooled off and got injured again.

I feel the same way. It's like Kings have pieces like a bunch of young guys who are not established in the NHL, meanwhile, Habs have to part ways with guys who are full-time NHL'ers in order to make it work.

 

[blarneylad]

I feel the same way. It's like Kings have pieces like a bunch of young guys who are not established in the NHL, meanwhile, Habs have to part ways with guys who are full-time NHL'ers in order to make it work.

Habs aren’t ready. I’d walk away from these discussions if were Hughes.

Dvorak
Prospect
Fla 1st.

Not good enuf? Move on

 

[Adam Michaels]

Habs aren’t ready. I’d walk away from these discussions if were Hughes.

Dvorak
Prospect
Fla 1st.

Not good enuf? Move on

You definitely set the price you're willing to pay and you can maybe negotiate different aspects of the pieces, but fundamentally, I agree. You don't empty the cupboards for him. And if Jets opt to trade him elsewhere and he signs an extension there, then you look elsewhere.

It shouldn't be "PLD or no one else." It could be PLD is Plan A, but he's not the only plan.

 

[CHwest]

The emojis add to your point and augment the maturity in the response

 

[The Great Weal]

While PLD does have lots of flaws, I wonder if playing somewhere he wants will make him work harder on a more consistent basis. He's got some incredible tools, he just doesn't use them enough.

 

[Rapala]

Habs aren’t ready. I’d walk away from these discussions if were Hughes.

Dvorak
Prospect
Fla 1st.

Not good enuf? Move on

That is probably what has been on the table for close to a year now. The Florida pick lost some value but Dubois got a year older. The prospect will also be someone who is redundant like Ylonen or maybe Kidney. I don't think we are interested in moving any of our picks from last season or any of our trade acquisitions. We got them for a reason and HuGo probably wants to see how they work out in the next year or two.

 

[Rapala]

While PLD does have lots of flaws, I wonder if playing somewhere he wants will make him work harder on a more consistent basis. He's got some incredible tools, he just doesn't use them enough.

If we could be sure of this the fan base and organization would be less likely to balk at the high AAV for 8 years. I'd insist on a lower AAV but include performance bonuses so he'd get paid if he merits it.

 

[sheed36]

Habs aren’t ready. I’d walk away from these discussions if were Hughes.

Dvorak
Prospect
Fla 1st.

Not good enuf? Move on

Also wasn't there a rumor that the Habs thought they had a deal in place for PLD at last years draft but at the very last minute Chevy wanted more and the deal fell through.

If so and if I were Hughes I wouldn't forget that and I wouldn't move off my final offer other than to make my offer even worse if the Habs do eventually end up being the only option for the Jets as this saga drags on.

 

[BLONG7]

You definitely set the price you're willing to pay and you can maybe negotiate different aspects of the pieces, but fundamentally, I agree. You don't empty the cupboards for him. And if Jets opt to trade him elsewhere and he signs an extension there, then you look elsewhere.

It shouldn't be "PLD or no one else." It could be PLD is Plan A, but he's not the only plan.

Thinking Hughes has drawn a line in the sand, and has walked away so to speak....
7 days time to see if Chevy can get it done.
The Jets are about to implode, and the habs are building towards a good team...

 

[morhilane]

I feel the same way. It's like Kings have pieces like a bunch of young guys who are not established in the NHL, meanwhile, Habs have to part ways with guys who are full-time NHL'ers in order to make it work.

It's like people are just looking at when those players were drafted (exclusively 1st round) and not their actual NHL performance.

 

[ML16]

If Dubois isn’t dealt by the end of the first round in the upcoming draft, what happens then?

Does he simply accepts his qualifying offer (6M AAV) in order to hit UFA-status next summer?

Or does he file for arbitration before July 5th? (Winnipeg’s delay to do so is now extinct, I think.)

If Dubois files for arbitration, is it correct to assume that if it’s he who files the request, he then cannot accept an offer sheet, whereas he could if it would have been the Jets’ initiative?

In any event, if a trade cannot be struck and Dubois doesn’t file for arbitration, would the latter sign - and should the Habs consider - an offer sheet for 6.4M AAV / 1-year contract?

If Winnipeg matches, Dubois becomes de facto untradable and ends up UFA next summer; the Habs then use that window to try and acquire him for cap space only. More importantly, bargaining-wise, the Jets end up without any compensation whatsoever in that scenario.

If Winnipeg doesn’t match and Dubois ends up in Montreal, the Jets get an unprotected 2024 1st and a 3rd. Under the (reasonable) assumptions that Dubois can be locked up long term next January (max. 8.5M AAV, considering the UFA years bought) and that the Habs are outside of the bottom-10 by the end of next season, it seems like a worthy gamble. Even more so since the Habs could sell a few assets at TDL 2024 to replenish their draft capital.

In summary, the Jets’ risk management of an accepted 6.4M AAV OS would be as follow: compensation floor: Nothing / compensation ceiling: (Mid-?)1st + 3rd round picks.

All things considered, even if they have to compete with genuine interest and feasibility from another team (maybe Detroit?), from the unique Habs’ perspective - namely reasonable grounds to expect a long term commitment from Dubois if acquired - the investment should thus not go far beyond the 1st + 3rd threshold value.

 

[Runner77]

While PLD does have lots of flaws, I wonder if playing somewhere he wants will make him work harder on a more consistent basis. He's got some incredible tools, he just doesn't use them enough.

Like most other NHLers with his experience, he is who he is at this point.

Let him coast for half the season as he does, in a coastal setting like LA.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Did he signed in L.A yet?

 

[CHwest]

If Dubois isn’t dealt by the end of the first round in the upcoming draft, what happens then?

Does he simply accepts his qualifying offer (6M AAV) in order to hit UFA-status next summer?

Or does he file for arbitration before July 5th? (Winnipeg’s delay to do so is now extinct, I think.)

If Dubois files for arbitration, is it correct to assume that if it’s he who files the request, he then cannot accept an offer sheet, whereas he could if it would have been the Jets’ initiative?

In any event, if a trade cannot be struck and Dubois doesn’t file for arbitration, would the latter sign - and should the Habs consider - an offer sheet for 6.4M AAV / 1-year contract?

If Winnipeg matches, Dubois becomes de facto untradable and ends up UFA next summer; the Habs then use that window to try and acquire him for cap space only. More importantly, bargaining-wise, the Jets end up without any compensation whatsoever in that scenario.

If Winnipeg doesn’t match and Dubois ends up in Montreal, the Jets get an unprotected 2024 1st and a 3rd. Under the (reasonable) assumptions that Dubois can be locked up long term next January (max. 8.5M AAV, considering the UFA years bought) and that the Habs are outside of the bottom-10 by the end of next season, it seems like a worthy gamble. Even more so since the Habs could sell a few assets at TDL 2024 to replenish their draft capital.

In summary, the Jets’ risk management of an accepted 6.4M AAV OS would be as follow: compensation floor: Nothing / compensation ceiling: (Mid-?)1st + 3rd round picks.

All things considered, even if they have to compete with genuine interest and feasibility from another team (maybe Detroit?), from the unique Habs’ perspective - namely reasonable grounds to expect a long term commitment from Dubois if acquired - the investment should thus not go far beyond the 1st + 3rd threshold value.

" unprotected 2024 1st and a 3rd." No thank you.

 

[razor ray]

Not a Habs fan, or of any team, just curious of PLD does happen for Montreal how does the cap situation work? Need to move anyone or no?

Habs could really have something down the middle with PLD, NS, and pick #5 possibly being a C.

 

[BLONG7]

Not a Habs fan, or of any team, just curious of PLD does happen for Montreal how does the cap situation work? Need to move anyone or no?

Habs could really have something down the middle with PLD, NS, and pick #5 possibly being a C.

Shows the habs have 9.2M in space right now................using the LTIR money.
Still think Hoffman is gone very soon..........creating even more room.....

 

[MXD]

If Dubois isn’t dealt by the end of the first round in the upcoming draft, what happens then?

Does he simply accepts his qualifying offer (6M AAV) in order to hit UFA-status next summer?

Or does he file for arbitration before July 5th? (Winnipeg’s delay to do so is now extinct, I think.)

If Dubois files for arbitration, is it correct to assume that if it’s he who files the request, he then cannot accept an offer sheet, whereas he could if it would have been the Jets’ initiative?

In any event, if a trade cannot be struck and Dubois doesn’t file for arbitration, would the latter sign - and should the Habs consider - an offer sheet for 6.4M AAV / 1-year contract?

If Winnipeg matches, Dubois becomes de facto untradable and ends up UFA next summer; the Habs then use that window to try and acquire him for cap space only. More importantly, bargaining-wise, the Jets end up without any compensation whatsoever in that scenario.

If Winnipeg doesn’t match and Dubois ends up in Montreal, the Jets get an unprotected 2024 1st and a 3rd. Under the (reasonable) assumptions that Dubois can be locked up long term next January (max. 8.5M AAV, considering the UFA years bought) and that the Habs are outside of the bottom-10 by the end of next season, it seems like a worthy gamble. Even more so since the Habs could sell a few assets at TDL 2024 to replenish their draft capital.

In summary, the Jets’ risk management of an accepted 6.4M AAV OS would be as follow: compensation floor: Nothing / compensation ceiling: (Mid-?)1st + 3rd round picks.

All things considered, even if they have to compete with genuine interest and feasibility from another team (maybe Detroit?), from the unique Habs’ perspective - namely reasonable grounds to expect a long term commitment from Dubois if acquired - the investment should thus not go far beyond the 1st + 3rd threshold value.

Winnipeg can still bring PLD in arbitration during the second window (there are conditions to be met though, but no deal-breaker).

Making to Dubois an offer sheet that would give Winnipeg an unprotected 1st rounder would be extremely moronic.

 

[MXD]

Not a Habs fan, or of any team, just curious of PLD does happen for Montreal how does the cap situation work? Need to move anyone or no?

Habs could really have something down the middle with PLD, NS, and pick #5 possibly being a C.

It's not absolutely necessary, but skaters under contract will have to leave/go in the AHL if Dubois joins.

 

[sandviper]

Habs aren’t ready. I’d walk away from these discussions if were Hughes.

Dvorak
Prospect
Fla 1st.

Not good enuf? Move on

Yup, this is the price-ish I'd set. Winnipeg wants more? Good luck with LAK then.

Either way, no matter what, money has to go the other way from us. Be it to the Jets or another team.

 

[The Great Weal]

Like most other NHLers with his experience, he is who he is at this point.

Let him coast for half the season as he does, in a coastal setting like LA.

He very well could be, although you look at a guy like ROR who was unhappy in both Colorado and Buffalo but took it to the next level playing somewhere he is motivated in St.Louis.

That being said, the opposite could be true where the media pressure gets to PLD and he does even worse than expected (Drouin). I do think he will manage the market better than Drouin mostly due to expectations (you had people expecting 40-50 goals out of Drouin when he got here and to lead the offense) as many realize he won't be our best forward.

 

[sampollock]

starting to think Kent has moved on from PLD

he is focused more on the draft, the peg wants to much... the end

 

[Treal]

Habs aren’t ready. I’d walk away from these discussions if were Hughes.

Dvorak
Prospect
Fla 1st.

Not good enuf? Move on

Exactly this! Montreal is still rebuilding and not in a position to get into a bidding war.

Hell, I see names like Harris and Barron commonly thrown in every trade as if there was a stockpile of Ds that can just take their spot on the fly. I'm not saying they are untouchable but I would wait until Ds like Mailloux or even Hutson are closer to making the team before trading away half of the team's young defensemen.

 

[Runner77]

He very well could be, although you look at a guy like ROR who was unhappy in both Colorado and Buffalo but took it to the next level playing somewhere he is motivated in St.Louis.

That being said, the opposite could be true where the media pressure gets to PLD and he does even worse than expected (Drouin). I do think he will manage the market better than Drouin mostly due to expectations (you had people expecting 40-50 goals out of Drouin when he got here and to lead the offense) as many realize he won't be our best forward.

He’s more likely to be who he’s been but nothing wrong with holding out hope for more.

As Andrew Paterson, a Peg pundit said recently, he’s incredibly talented but also incredibly inconsistent. He used his performance in the Vegas series as an example of his typical output.

Paterson’s the guy who tried to pin down Dubois’ game with a 20-50-30 equation — you’re getting 20 great games, 50 good ones and 30 bad ones. That’s who he’s been. Maybe he can raise his great games ratio? Something to speculate upon I suppose.

 

[sampollock]

According to David Ettedgui, a former players' agent turned analyst for BPM Sports, the answer is yes, and he indicates that Dvorak risks being the player sacrificed by the organization.

Admittedly, with his salary sitting at $4.45 million for two more seasons, it seems increasingly likely that 27-year-old Dvorak's fate will be to play for another team in the near future.

Could we see him being traded in the draft? The possibilities remain entirely plausible.

The Winnipeg Jets have shown interest in Dvorak before, and it's also possible to see him included in a package to get Pierre-Luc Dubois .

 

[Runner77]

According to David Ettedgui, a former players' agent turned analyst for BPM Sports, the answer is yes, and he indicates that Dvorak risks being the player sacrificed by the organization.

Admittedly, with his salary sitting at $4.45 million for two more seasons, it seems increasingly likely that 27-year-old Dvorak's fate will be to play for another team in the near future.

Could we see him being traded in the draft? The possibilities remain entirely plausible.

The Winnipeg Jets have shown interest in Dvorak before, and it's also possible to see him included in a package to get Pierre-Luc Dubois .

Ettedgui has no credibility. He routinely gets roasted on his Twitter account.

Anyone who maintains that ditching Dvorak is a sacrifice, is absolutely clueless.

The most pressing issue for Dvorak and Ettedgui is not mentioning it in your quote, is how Dvorak will have a no-trade condition kicking in soon. Even if it’s not a wide ranging no trade, what if the team willing to take him, will eventually be part of that list? Better to aggressively move now.