Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Michoulicious]

Add this years pick, PLD and a goalie (Hart) and yes there in the running for a wild card spot assuming team maintains average injury trend for an NHL team

Which player do you think we pick at #5-8 OA that plays on the team next year (!) and has such an impact?

And how do you get Carter Hart?

You are living in a dreamworld.

 

[salbutera]

Which player do you think we pick at #5-8 OA that plays on the team next year (!) and has such an impact?

And how do you get Carter Hart?

You are living in a dreamworld.

Doesn’t need to have an impact: Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, PLD would be the impact players. That top pick along w Slaf plays a supporting role unless of course its Bedard, who has the potential to do more than support

Jets have zero leverage, they either wait till next deadline for a mid-late 20s 1st rounder or take a couple of prospects from Habs now. HuGo have Chevaldayoff by the balls & simply need to squeeze till he begs mercy

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

nd not having him in

We are weak on RD and decent on Center/Wings. Why do you want to trade from an area of weakness?

We are never too strong on center

 

[Runner77]

D’Amico & Mtl Hockey Now site are comprised of hacks - Friedman has been informed by an upper echelon Habs official be it Gorton, Hughes or Molson himself.

Chevaldayoff is scrambling to get some leverage back and I expect to see lots of Mailloux being scouted, Roy is part of the deal crap to try & offset the PR game

D’Amico is not Charlie Murphy. It’s unfortunate that he writes on that site but the shortcomings of the others shouldn’t be imputed to him.

Marco is regularly interviewed on BPM and does Habs pre-game shows on 690. He’s knowledgeable and appears to have sources. He’s not dumb enough to make empty assertions when everyone knows there are also prospects playing those games where Mailloux is active.

Heck, every junior game features prospects being viewed — are we going to discount every rumor by assuming that a pundit is too ignorant about teams that may also be there at the same time for prospects being scouted?

Or maybe … those teams who are scouting have tunnel vision and can’t possibly be evaluating some other player at the same time.

 

[Goalfield13]

would we be happy coming out the first round with with Reinbacher and Dubois?

I would be quite happy, especially if we traded Mailloux and kept the FLA pick. We have Lane Hutson to be the offensive D in our system. We need more Guhle types like Reinbacher.

 

[Michoulicious]

Doesn’t need to have an impact: Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, PLD would be the impact players. That top pick along w Slaf plays a supporting role unless of course its Bedard, who has the potential to do more than support

You're saying crazy stuff. No pick outside of Bedard, Fantilli or *maybe* Carlsson is expected to play in the NHL next year. So no, no "support role" there.

Caufield is getting back from labrum surgery. Took 2 years for Anderson to get back where he was. Dach, well, let's wait for him to get 60 points before saying he's an "impact" player.

Look at the Eastern Conference. It's stacked. Even if things go smooth and Montreal has NO INJURIES, they're at best middle of the pack... AT BEST. Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit, will all get better next year. The Atlantic will be a blood bath.

We're going to finish bottom 5 in the league and you expect to get a bump of more than +10 in the rankings. This is totally unrealistic.

 

[larek]

You may not want trade Mailloux for Dubois... but maybe Hughes have no problem making that trade

If they trade maill it's becuase they are a bit gutless

 

[salbutera]

If they trade maill it's becuase they are a bit gutless

Or depending on how their draft position shapes out, they are planning on picking Reinbacher ..

 

[ManixLiquid]

Those rumors make me SICK.

I'd be REALLY PISSED if we spend any kind of quality asset only to get PLD a year in advance. He's frickin UFA in a year and we'll suck next year. What's the rush?

If he really wants to come over, he will then. If not, then be it.

Hopefully Hughes is smart in that situation.

I'll be pissed if Hugues gives Mailloux to get Dubois. Why habs management and fans can't wait just one more year If He 100% wants to come here?

 

[dinodebino]

Mesar and a 7th round pick. We just need to send Bombshell11's scouting report on Mesar to Chevedayoff and he will be sold.

Post of the day. Underrated. But strong.

 

[dinodebino]

If it's inevitable that Dubois is leaving, I think WPG would be better off holding onto him and trying to compete again one last time next year -- if they struggle they can sell him at the TDL.

What if they don’t struggle?

 

[dinodebino]

Coaches?

You prefer leaving Dach at center on the 3rd line instead of him getting top6 minutes?

Normal for a 21 year old to be under 50%.

 

[Hannibal]

It’s not a matter of if it’s gonna happen but when it’s gonna happen.

 

[dinodebino]

I sense a thread going to part XVI by end of season.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Trade for him if the price is right. Habs will realistically have to give up long term cap and there's only one person that fits those parameters with actual trade value. So the trade would look something like PLD (sign and trade) for Anderson, a tier 2 prospect (Kidney, etc) and a 2nd/3rd

 

[Scriptor]

We are weak on RD and decent on Center/Wings. Why do you want to trade from an area of weakness?

You're never strong enough down the middle, but I would still be reticent to trade Mailloux, Guhle, Hutson or Xhekaj from Montreal's projected back end for Dubois.

Reuniting the Barron brothers in Winnipeg, I have less of a problem with.

Winnipeg rumoured to be looking for a C and a RD.

I'd offer Beck + Barron + our 2nd round pick to avoid parting with our Florida pick in the middle of the first round and WIN would need to take Armia along with that.

IMO, doit only would that get us Dubois long term, but we would move a longer term contract in Armia and Hoffman would be gone after next year.

There'd be Dvorak for next year and the one after that, but he could be a decent third line C for us while we wait for our own 2023 pick to mature over that time frame.

Florida pick? Target Reddenbacher, the Swiss League, popcorn-making RHD or trade the pick to get one entering the NHL on an ELC, like a Grans or something?

 

[Habitant#1]

As much as its been rumored that Dubois to Montreal next summer is all but a sure thing, I see no issue in securing him via trade this summer. Especially considering the Jets are in a similar situation that the Hawks were with Kane in the sense that they have an asset that has no intention of returning but only has eyes for one team. Habs have more than enough assets to get a deal done.

Dvorak
Kidney
2nd round pick
+ another mid pick or prospect?

This is the most I'd be willing to give.

 

[Kojo]

I wouldn't send any asset back to acquire PLD at this point. PLD is basically a bigger and better version of Danault, except Danault used to cost only 3M AAV. PLD is going to cripple our cap hit when he sign his next contract. If he wants to play in Montreal that's cool but we shouldn't trade any asset and he shouldn't expect a playstation contract like Suzuki.

Also, PLD stats since a few weeks are meh.

 

[Scriptor]

I wouldn't send any asset back to acquire PLD at this point. PLD is basically a bigger and better version of Danault, except Danault used to cost only 3M AAV. PLD is going to cripple our cap hit when he sign his next contract. If he wants to play in Montreal that's cool but we shouldn't trade any asset and he shouldn't expect a playstation contract like Suzuki.

Also, PLD stats since a few weeks are meh.

Recency bias limits the proper evaluation of a player, especially when it suits your overall bias.

 

[Kojo]

Recency bias limits the proper evaluation of a player, especially when it suits your overall bias.

I don't like PLD since a while it's not a recent bias. It was the same way before Habs acquired Drouin. I hated Drouin. Lots of red flags.

 

[Belial]

The way Langlois was talking tonight on 98.5FM it's just a matter of time till Dubois is Habs...

Apparently, it's been his dream since he was a kid to play for the Habs and so on...

And he said he got sources and all...

But if all this is true I just don't understand why Dubois wouldn't just go play somewhere for another year and then sign here as a UFA?

It would boost this roster a lot more than us trading for him and losing potentially valuable assets.

 

[Scriptor]

The way Langlois was talking tonight on 98.5FM it's just a matter of time till Dubois is Habs...

Apparently, it's been his dream since he was a kid to play for the Habs and so on...

And he said he got sources and all...

But if all this is true I just don't understand why Dubois wouldn't just go play somewhere for another year and then sign here as a UFA?

It would boost this roster a lot more than us trading for him and losing potentially valuable assets.

I'm going out on a limb and guessing, because, unlike Hab fans who unrealistically want it all:

1) He's human and considers, "What good is a dream if your dream destination only kins maybe likes you and would take you a year from now, for the right price, if you ask nicely?"

2) Maybe, if it's Winnipeg again, he and his girlfriend just really don't like living there?

3) Maybe moving (one of the top traumatic things for human beings) three times in four years, if he ends up in Montreal as an UFA, just doesn't,t sound all that enticing, especially not being in control of where the other destination, between WIN and MON would be yet?

Dubois is not some robot with a point production setting as a program. last I checked, he's a human being and the logical, day-to-day considerations also apply to him, just like they do to you.

I don't like PLD since a while it's not a recent bias. It was the same way before Habs acquired Drouin. I hated Drouin. Lots of red flags.

Ah, you should have just said that up front. Now we know he'll be useless in Montreal. Saves us all the trouble knowing you hate him like you hated Drouin.

 

[Kojo]

Ah, you should have just said that up front. Now we know he'll be useless in Montreal. Saves us all the trouble knowing you hate him like you hated Drouin.

I never said he was going to be useless what the f*** are you smoking? If you care that much, what kind of assets would you trade for a player who is going to sign with us for free according to the reports?

 

[Belial]

I'm going out on a limb and guessing, because, unlike Hab fans who unrealistically want it all:

1) He's human and considers, "What good is a dream if your dream destination only kins maybe likes you and would take you a year from now, for the right price, if you ask nicely?"

2) Maybe, if it's Winnipeg again, he and his girlfriend just really don't like living there?

3) Maybe moving (one of the top traumatic things for human beings) three times in four years, if he ends up in Montreal as an UFA, just doesn't,t sound all that enticing, especially not being in control of where the other destination, between WIN and MON would be yet?

Dubois is not some robot with a point production setting as a program. last I checked, he's a human being and the logical, day-to-day considerations also apply to him, just like they do to you.

If his dream is to win a cup while wearing the Habs jersey then he will reach autonomy and sign here as a UFA.

It would maximize the chances of it actually happening.

 

[Scriptor]

I never said he was going to be useless what the f*** are you smoking? If you care that much, what kind of assets would you trade for a player who is going to sign with us for free according to the reports?

I just think that the reports are just convenient for click bait and unproven, all based on hearsay.

As a human being, I would assume that, even if Dubois was an unapologetic fan of the Habs and everything associated with the team, that it was his life long dream to play for the HABS, he'd best respond to the Habs showing they have a reciprocal desire for him.

That would be a good start to the relationship between the player and the team and could help make contract negotiations for a long term extension more fluid.

As they mused on 98.5 fm, after the game, Winnipeg is looking for a RHD of the future that can play now or very shortly at the NHL level?

Is Barron a good enough candidate for them?

I don't know, but I would be willing to include him in a trade, even if, since his recall to Montreal from Laval, he is playing better and better and actually on pace for a 37-point season (full season) as a rookie.

I have more interest in Mailloux's potential, despite the rumours that Winnipeg were scouting him just recently. I would not sacrifice Mailloux, on the right side, for Dubois.

I have less of a problem sacrificing Barron because I always thought that we would need to acquire a more physical, two-way RHD with better shutdown abilities than Barron because this RHD would be a pairing partner for Hutson, in the end.

I suspect that Harris could be an adequate 3rd pairing RHD (as a Lefty) to play with Xhekaj once we had become a contending roster.

That or Engström.

I suspect that Winnipeg would also want a Center who could play in the NHL within a short time frame?

From Montreal, there would be two candidates:

Beck, whose organization, from the start of the year, was willing to trade him because they didn't believe he would be returning to Juniors next season.

Mesar, who already played professional hockey overseas, I believe.

Both players are natural Centers and, regarding Mesar, Rob Ramage had gone on record to state that the Habs would like to develop Mesar as a C.

Mesar is a more offensive C and Beck is a two-way, shutdown C with offensive upside.

I'd be willing to offer one of Beck or Mesar, plus Barron, the equivalent of two first round choices, but this would take the Florida 1st rounder off the table. I'd add Montreal's 2nd rounder in 2023 (around 37th to 39th OA, depending on the lottery results for this year's draft) and a roster player with term remaining from Dvorak or Armia as decided by Winnipeg.

I'm pretty confident in Montreal's C-line skill level after adding Dubois, plus more confident in how more physically imposing the top-6 will become in doing as much.

All three of Suzuki, Dubois and Dach are, IMO, legitimate top-6 Cs and their continued progress, because they are still only 24, 23 and 22, respectively, will determine whom really stands out as a #1 Center throughout their prime years. For the moment, I believe it is a 1A, 1B, 1C scenario, with one C playing on the wing and adding quality insurance in case of an injury to one of the other two top-6 Cs.

Your answer is:

Dubois

VS

Barron + Beck/Mesar + Dvorak/Armia + MON 2023 2nd round pick.

I'm pretty sure that Montreal, with their own 1st round pick, will get a chance at selecting a good C, even if it is Dvorsky should we slip back to 7th, 8th or 9th OA with our own pick because of the lottery. Dvorsky could well be a solid 3rd pairing C on an offensive exploitation line for a roster built on the strength of their top-9 and a strong overall D.

Is it a lot to offer for Dubois?

Yes and no.

Getting rid of Dvorak or Armia is advantageous for Montreal because they shed a contract with term. Hoffman disappears on his own at the end of next season. As does Edmundson if we aren't able to move him for 50% of his remaining Cap.

We'd basically have one of Dvorak or Armia and Gallagher, plus Savard left as veterans we would inevitably want to move. Both Armia and Dvorak only have one season left to their contracts after next year. Holding onto one for that remaining term won't be a huge problem. Savard remains useful on the right side for two more years at 3.5M as well.

Gallagher is the one bad veteran contract we will need to live with.

Where it hurts os in giving up one of Mesar or Beck, but the team has enough depth now and soon, to handle the loss of one of these prospects without putting the rebuild in jeopardy.

The second round pick, like any pick, can become a home run, but, honestly, l the odds of that happening wth a 37th to 39th pick are rather low.

With the Florida pick, I would hopefully be able to select a quality RHD, or I'd use the pick to target and trade for a young RHD such as Grans (or better), a smooth, big-bodied, minute-munching RHD with upside.

IMO, this gives us a RHD ready to play in the NHL next season, after two season in the AHL, to replace Barron, with Mailloux likely ready the following year after a full season in Laval.

This may accelerate the rebuild somewhat, but, after a 1st OA pick, plus a 26th OA pick in 2022 and some excellent 2nd round picks that same draft (Beck and Hutson), another top-10 pick in 2023 and another 1st round pick used to nab a quality RHD prospect that os NHL ready, I still think that we miss the playoffs one last time next season and end up with a top-15 pick to complement the prospect pool depth in 2014.