Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[HuGort]

We’ve drafted 1OA and 5OA over the past two years with virtually the same team. The addition PLD and the possible incremental growth of some of the team’s younger players isn’t enough to move the needle. The assets that some here are willing to give away will only perpetuate the continuing mediocrity of this team.


Let some other team find out.

I take it you don't like him

 

[Vachon23]

I don't give Beck either...

I like Beck but he should't be someone untouchable in a PLD deal. The chances he become as good as PLD are extremely low.

That's like not wanting to trade Ryan Poehling for ROR

 

[sheed36]

NYR could work if they trade either Chytil or Trocheck for PLD.

The Wild don't have money at all unless Ericsson-Ek is going the other way.

Chytil maybe but I doubt that Trocheck would waive his NMC to go to Winnipeg after signing a 7 year UFA contract with the NYR just last season.

 

[OnTheRun]

Teams did ask SJ to talk to Meier's agent, otherwise the journalists wouldn't have brought up that SJ refused them. Same journalists also said that Meier would have brought back more had teams been able to talk to his agent since RFAs are not deadline rentals.

Meier was a TDL rental, moving on.

And PLD will be traded before the draft is over. His trade value will plummet even more if teams get to talk to his agent and 90% of them are told "no".

And that's.... the whole point. PLD situation make it so that teams will want to know where he stand, the guy already said he want to decide where he will play next. It's not rocket science.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I like Beck but he should't be someone untouchable in a PLD deal. The chances he become as good as PLD are extremely low.

That's like not wanting to trade Ryan Poehling for ROR

I don't see why we would trade Beck when we can trade Kidney. Their value are probably similar.

 

[Vachon23]

I don't see why we would trade Beck when we can trade Kidney. Their value are probably similar.

I mean If WPG are ok with both, I would trade Kidney before for sure.

But if I'm WPG, it's Beck that I want and not Kidney

 

[salbutera]

Professional hockey is one of the few enterprises where management of multi million ( billion?) dollar businesses are often entrusted to people with barely high school level educations. And some teams wonder why they are floundering. And continue to do so.

Order of magnitude - MLB & NBA were that way for the longest time and only changed due to ownership change with tech & hedge fund types entering the fold which then moved the management needle towards “known types” - more analytical etc.

Same is happening in NHL the latest ownership coming on (Canes, NJD, Pit) are all now under hedge fund types and management is analytically focused types.

VGK have been the only exception, given their consortium ownership setup with more traditional businessmen types.

 

[FrankMTL]

I like Beck but he should't be someone untouchable in a PLD deal. The chances he become as good as PLD are extremely low.

That's like not wanting to trade Ryan Poehling for ROR

Beck has more upside the Poehling ever had. I just don't like the idea of trading a potentially very solid cost controlled centre who will more than likely be an important player when we will start competing. Nothing against Dubois, but I don't think Hughes should be dropping his pants when Chevy is clearly in a rough spot.

 

[Vachon23]

Professional hockey is one of the few enterprises where management of multi million ( billion?) dollar businesses are often entrusted to people with barely high school level educations. And some teams wonder why they are floundering. And continue to do so.

Not necessary, many entrepreneurs don't necessary have a lot of education and they are great manager.

And you have people with a lot of education that are terrible manager.

Leadership and ability to manage a business is something you have or you don't

Beck has more upside the Poehling ever had. I just don't like the idea of trading a potentially very solid cost controlled centre who will more than likely be an important player when we will start competing. Nothing against Dubois, but I don't think Hughes should be dropping his pants when Chevy is clearly in a rough spot.

Remember that Poehling was our #1 prospect before Suzuki ?

And Dubois would be a really important piece to when we will be ready to compete

 

[morhilane]

Meier was a TDL rental, moving on.



And that's.... the whole point. PLD situation make it so that teams will want to know where he stand, the guy already said he want to decide where he will play next. It's not rocket science.

RFAs are not considered rentals by GMs.

And Winnipeg is under no obligation to allow any teams to talk to Dubois camp before trading him. Chevy's plan has been to try to get a bidding war going and let whichever teams get suckered into it deal with him not being interested in signing with them long term afterward. It's the only way he can maximize the return value.

 

[Vachon23]

RFAs are not considered rentals by GMs.

And Winnipeg is under no obligation to allow any teams to talk to Dubois camp before trading him. Chevy's plan has been to try to get a bidding war going and let whichever teams get suckered into it deal with him not being interested in signing with them long term afterward. It's the only way he can maximize the return value.

He will receive more value in letting teams talk to PLD camp to negotiate a deal.

 

[morhilane]

He will receive more value in letting teams talk to PLD camp to negotiate a deal.

Not if he's only interested in signing long term with 2-3 teams as rumored and they can all wait a year to get him for free on the UFA market on top. It's better to get a bidding war for 1 year of his service in this case.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I like Beck but he should't be someone untouchable in a PLD deal. The chances he become as good as PLD are extremely low.

That's like not wanting to trade Ryan Poehling for ROR

The difference being.. the Habs were competing in the Price window at the time and ROR was available for anyone.

This is year 2 of our rebuild and we don't need to accelerate anything for PLD. Beck would only be one piece and in addition, there's the term and salary.

You stay in the Trouba deal archetype and you don't deviate from it. We have no reason to push out valuable youth pieces for PLD, especially since the other markets he would like don't have the ability financially to make that type of move work.

 

[sampollock]

Teams did ask SJ to talk to Meier's agent, otherwise the journalists wouldn't have brought up that SJ refused them. Same journalists also said that Meier would have brought back more had teams been able to talk to his agent since RFAs are not deadline rentals.

And PLD will be traded before the draft is over. His trade value will plummet even more if teams get to talk to his agent and 90% of them are told "no".

If teams ask chevy about PLD, and PLD says I won' sign there.... the list gets small

 

[OnTheRun]

RFAs are not considered rentals by GMs.

And Winnipeg is under no obligation to allow any teams to talk to Dubois camp before trading him. Chevy's plan has been to try to get a bidding war going and let whichever teams get suckered into it deal with him not being interested in signing with them long term afterward. It's the only way he can maximize the return value.

Yeah, not happening.
Everyone know he want out and everyone know he is picky about where he want to go. No one is bidding blind on this.

 

[Vachon23]

The difference being.. the Habs were competing in the Price window at the time and ROR was available for anyone.

This is year 2 of our rebuild and we don't need to accelerate anything for PLD. Beck would only be one piece and in addition, there's the term and salary.

You stay in the Trouba deal archetype and you don't deviate from it. We have no reason to push out valuable youth pieces for PLD, especially since the other markets he would like don't have the ability financially to make that type of move work.

Don't disagree, but PLD at the same time is in the same gap age of our core so he would just grow with them

I don't think Trouba is a good comparable, since we don't have that 17th pick anymore. I understand that we should't overpay for him, but I would't refuse to make the deal because of Owen Beck.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Don't disagree, but PLD at the same time is in the same gap age of our core so he would just grow with them

I don't think Trouba is a good comparable, since we don't have that 17th pick anymore. I understand that we should't overpay for him, but I would't refuse to make the deal because of Owen Beck.

They see Beck as close to the NHL, I think there's other ways around using Beck and I'm sure they do, too.

Sean Farrell might be the pivot move and I'd hate to lose Farrell, but he doesn't have the C premium Beck has.

 

[Vachon23]

They see Beck as close to the NHL, I think there's other ways around using Beck and I'm sure they do, too.

Sean Farrell might be the pivot move and I'd hate to lose Farrell, but he doesn't have the C premium Beck has.

Of course I would try to pass many other prospect before Beck

But if Winnipeg at the end of day are telling me it's Beck or nothing, I would do it.

 

[HuGo Sham]

quick thoughts + question--
wasn't Winnipeg threatening to file a tampering case vs habs last summer because of PLD?
This might sound crazy but I can see Hughes trading for PLD just to brush the flames off of not drafting michkov. lol
that being said, sounds like there are several teams in on this and brisson is doing the legwork finding out who he would consider signing an extension with.
I don't think he gets traded to habs. Other teams will have better offers and Chevy, who i can't stand, will absolutely try to bend Hughes over a barrel imo
(especially if that leverage is gone)

 

[salbutera]

The difference being.. the Habs were competing in the Price window at the time and ROR was available for anyone.

This is year 2 of our rebuild and we don't need to accelerate anything for PLD. Beck would only be one piece and in addition, there's the term and salary.

You stay in the Trouba deal archetype and you don't deviate from it. We have no reason to push out valuable youth pieces for PLD, especially since the other markets he would like don't have the ability financially to make that type of move work.

Per LeBrun & Friedman at the time, Pegula had made it clear to his GM, he wanted player traded out of the Cont - same with Eichel

 

[le_sean]

I don't give Beck either...

I think that’s crazy. Beck doesn’t even fit the team if you go and get PLD. You’d have three top 6 centres with Nick, Kirby and Dubois. You don’t refuse to give a prospect that might one day be your 3C.

This is on top of still having Dvorak, Evans on the team. Kidney, Kapanen, Mesar in the system.

 

[sampollock]

PLD is the big young player the habs would like to get
I guess we see if Kent can use his cunning ways to get him

maybe a 3 way deal??

I think that’s crazy. Beck doesn’t even fit the team if you go and get PLD. You’d have three top 6 centres with Nick, Kirby and Dubois. You don’t refuse to give a prospect that might one day be your 3C.

wow top 6 centres, weird to hear that, since the habs have not had a centre for years

 

[Saundies]

Alright, some decent sized bombshells in this article by Apon Basu and MA Godin on The Athletic: What we’re hearing on the Canadiens, Pierre-Luc Dubois and Carter Hart

If you don't have a subscription, it basically boils down to this:

- Jets aren't going to go to arb with PLD. He will be traded before summer's done.

EDIT: (Forgot to mention -- they want to get it done before the draft if possible)

- PLD will submit a list of 5-6 teams he'll sign long-term with and the Jets will facilitate that, and the Habs are going to be a team on that list. The Jets will then sign him to an 8 year deal based on the contract he negotiates with said team and trade him to that team (because he can't get 8 years with anyone but WIN).

- PLD would want more money to go to a "rebuilding team" over a contender and is said to want in the avenue of 9 million a year using Barzal, Hintz, and Matt Tkachuk as comparables.

- PLD considers himself a C but the position he plays won't be a factor in where he goes.

- Jets will want established NHLers in any return.

Based on ALL OF THIS info, now that it has clearly become a 5-6 team race, I do not want any part of PLD now. He is going to cost way too much money in both assets and cap for what he brings.

 

[FrankMTL]

Not necessary, many entrepreneurs don't necessary have a lot of education and they are great manager.

And you have people with a lot of education that are terrible manager.

Leadership and ability to manage a business is something you have or you don't


Remember that Poehling was our #1 prospect before Suzuki ?

And Dubois would be a really important piece to when we will be ready to compete

That speaks more about how shitty our prospect pool was.

I still wouldn’t give them Beck…let them rot with Dubois.

 

[EveryDay]

Barzal and Hintz???! Lol he's not at this level at all.....