Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[BehindTheTimes]

Good points, but the bottom line is, Roy did not win a gold medal. So there goes the Price won a gold medal, and any goalie can win a gold medal with TC.
The whole discussion was surrounded with Price has never had any kind of offense support that the other goalies did have during their Habs career.

Roy or Dryden or Plante would not have won Cups with Davey Desharnais as their #1 Centre either.
We have had great goalies over the years, and great team that's for sure, but just not in the last 10 years or so.

I don’t fault Price for us not winning a cup. Some years he was the best thing this team had. However, those that argue we only ever made the playoffs because of him and the years we didn’t were because the team was too bad make me laugh.

Price was the best on the world for a small time, doesn’t change the fact that the difference between 1st and 15th isn’t that huge.

We like to over hype our goaltending in this market and blame everything good or bad on them. Neither is true.

We had some good teams here and then MB arrived and the more he put his stamp on the team the worse we became. Our bad teams coincided with many of Price’s injuries, but he hasn’t been elite for a long time. We didn’t help him much, but it is what it is. Those teams that Gainey built were actually quite good and if we picked someone other than MB to take over from Skeletor we probably have a better record, but we didn’t.

 

[Adam Michaels]

No. And no.

If PLD wants to come here as a UFA, great. But I'm not keen on giving up assets - certainly not Dach or the 5th overall for him. Forget that.

I would definitely not give up those assets. And I highly doubt that's what it would take to get PLD anyways, But I would give up assets to acquire him. I just wouldn't give up just any assets to get him.

However, last year, nobody was willing to trade Romanov. He was an untouchable for almost everyone. Yet, now we see that we got Dach out of that and we're happy with that.

If Jets are too greedy, then they can either keep PLD or trade him somewhere else.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Landing PLD in the UFA market is a no-no IMO.

If we wanna talk about overpayment, he will be overpaid at that time.

I have no problems giving up assets to acquire him and ensuring a reasonable contract. Also, the contract needs to be agreed upon before the trade.

I surely wouldn't give #5 as we have all the leverage over Winnipeg in that trade.

I'd give something around the FLA pick + Mesar or Sean Farrell

 

[TomKosto]

Landing PLD in the UFA market is a no-no IMO.

If we wanna talk about overpayment, he will be overpaid at that time.

I have no problems giving up assets to acquire him and ensuring a reasonable contract. Also, the contract needs to be agreed upon before the trade.

I surely wouldn't give #5 as we have all the leverage over Winnipeg in that trade.

I'd give something around the FLA pick + Mesar or Sean Farrell

That's probably the asking price, maybe Harris instead of Mesar/Farrell.

 

[Skip Bayless]

That's probably the asking price, maybe Harris instead of Mesar/Farrell.

If it's 1st and Harris, there's no goddamn reason to wait.

Signing him as UFA is 9M per guaranteed. We don't want that.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

Landing PLD in the UFA market is a no-no IMO.

If we wanna talk about overpayment, he will be overpaid at that time.

I have no problems giving up assets to acquire him and ensuring a reasonable contract. Also, the contract needs to be agreed upon before the trade.

I surely wouldn't give #5 as we have all the leverage over Winnipeg in that trade.

I'd give something around the FLA pick + Mesar or Sean Farrell

How does acquiring him now ensure a 'reasonable' contract.? If what he really wants is to get paid it'll happen one way or another. I don't get people thinking he'll magically sign a long-term deal for several million less than he'd get by simply playing out his last RFA year.
If this happened it'd be because he wants to play in Montreal, not because we acquired before he becomes UFA.

 

[Skip Bayless]

How does acquiring him now ensure a 'reasonable' contract.? If what he really wants is to get paid it'll happen one way or another. I don't get people thinking he'll magically sign a long-term deal for several million less than he'd get by simply playing out his last RFA year.
If this happened it'd be because he wants to play in Montreal, not because we acquired before he becomes UFA.

RFAs have less leverage than UFAs. As bad as you'd think the contract he'll sign as an RFA would be, it'll be even worse as UFA.

Like I said, the deal is done only if the outline of the deal is agreed upon with his agent. I don't care if we have to pay a bit more for Winnipeg to give us permission to talk.

 

[McPhees Moustache]

RFAs have less leverage than UFAs. As bad as you'd think the contract he'll sign would be as an RFA, it'll be even worse as UFA.

Like I said, the deal is done only if the outline of the deal is agreed upon with his agent. I don't care if we have to pay a bit more for Winnipeg to give us permission to talk.

But why would he sign the contract if he can play out another 1 year contract and cash in as a UFA? No one has any leverage in a contract negotiation with him at this point. Regardless of who he's with he can go to arbitration and be a UFA next year. Us acquiring him this year has zero advantages in signing him to a cheaper long-term contract beyond including his final RFA year.
The only savings on a long-term deal at this point are any 'hometown discount' he'd be willing to take this will be the case whether he's acquired and signed this year or signed as a UFA next year.

 

[Skip Bayless]

But why would he sign the contract if he can play out another 1 year contract and cash in as a UFA? No one has any leverage in a contract negotiation with him at this point. Regardless of who he's with he can go to arbitration and be a UFA next year. Us acquiring him this year has zero advantages in signing him to a cheaper long-term contract beyond including his final RFA year.
The only savings on a long-term deal at this point are any 'hometown discount' he'd be willing to take this will be the case whether he's acquired and signed this year or signed as a UFA next year.

A hometown discount as an RFA and as a UFA are not the same thing. Once he hits the open market, his value increases considerably.

If he wants to play in Montreal, and I have no doubts about it since he's been saying that since his junior days, then he'll agree to sign a longterm extension before heading to the UFA market. And Hughes will make his due dilligence before proceeding to make the trade.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Timo Meier is looking for 9M according to Devils fans on the main board, so anything over 8M for PLD would be an overpayment.

 

[Milhouse40]

But why would he sign the contract if he can play out another 1 year contract and cash in as a UFA? No one has any leverage in a contract negotiation with him at this point. Regardless of who he's with he can go to arbitration and be a UFA next year. Us acquiring him this year has zero advantages in signing him to a cheaper long-term contract beyond including his final RFA year.
The only savings on a long-term deal at this point are any 'hometown discount' he'd be willing to take this will be the case whether he's acquired and signed this year or signed as a UFA next year.

8 years.
That's the leverage they have by acquiring him.
Longer deal, lower AVV a little, no bidding war.
If that comes also with a small hometown discount, then you should have a deal.
That has been said multiple time

I'm still not a hard yes on this PLD thing mainly because of that part.

I don't care about giving up asset to get him (of course, not the best ones) We're still swimming in interesting prospect, draft picks and even roster players. If PLD really ends up with the Habs, it must be on the lowest AVV possible.

 

[SwiftyHab]

If PLD really ends up with the Habs, it must be on the lowest AVV possible.

 

[salbutera]

He played lights out against Hasek, but Hasek was better. Price never had a hasek to deal with.

It’s a team game and these statements are silly. Most goalies nowadays are comparable in value, the separation is from the quality of team in front. Pat Riot is 100% correct. I hope we never again see a netminder as our highest paid player. If there was a book on what not to do in a salary cap era, this would be point number 1.

Price was a stud and had a few excellent seasons, unfortunately, injuries derailed his career imo. Price hasn’t been elite in over 1/2 a decade. It’s true, but some fans can’t let it go.

Price was elite in 2017, 2020 and 2021 playoffs

 

[MXD]

But why would he sign the contract if he can play out another 1 year contract and cash in as a UFA? No one has any leverage in a contract negotiation with him at this point. Regardless of who he's with he can go to arbitration and be a UFA next year. Us acquiring him this year has zero advantages in signing him to a cheaper long-term contract beyond including his final RFA year.
The only savings on a long-term deal at this point are any 'hometown discount' he'd be willing to take this will be the case whether he's acquired and signed this year or signed as a UFA next year.

Because signing the contract would be a pre-requirement to a trade (and a pre-requirement to not remain one last year in Winnipeg @ his QO).

At least, to a team that doesn't seem him as a rental, which would presumably be our case.

 

[Balthazar]

Timo Meier is looking for 9M according to Devils fans on the main board, so anything over 8M for PLD would be an overpayment.

Meier isn't a center.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

8 years.
That's the leverage they have by acquiring him.
Longer deal, lower AVV a little, no bidding war.
If that comes also with a small hometown discount, then you should have a deal.
That has been said multiple time

I'm still not a hard yes on this PLD thing mainly because of that part.

I don't care about giving up asset to get him (of course, not the best ones) We're still swimming in interesting prospect, draft picks and even roster players. If PLD really ends up with the Habs, it must be on the lowest AVV possible.

Meh, you could always buy his rights in June next year at a discount if what really matters is getting that 8th year. A 3rd would probably do it, no?

 

[Balthazar]

Landing PLD in the UFA market is a no-no IMO.

If we wanna talk about overpayment, he will be overpaid at that time.

I have no problems giving up assets to acquire him and ensuring a reasonable contract. Also, the contract needs to be agreed upon before the trade.

I surely wouldn't give #5 as we have all the leverage over Winnipeg in that trade.

I'd give something around the FLA pick + Mesar or Sean Farrell

Trading for him doesn't mean he's going to take a significant pay cut on his next contract. Agents always know how much money other teams are willing to offer on the free market, especially someone like Brisson.

 

[Rapala]

Timo Meier is looking for 9M according to Devils fans on the main board, so anything over 8M for PLD would be an overpayment.

Timo isn't worth 9M either what a farce.

I would definitely not give up those assets. And I highly doubt that's what it would take to get PLD anyways, But I would give up assets to acquire him. I just wouldn't give up just any assets to get him.

However, last year, nobody was willing to trade Romanov. He was an untouchable for almost everyone. Yet, now we see that we got Dach out of that and we're happy with that.

If Jets are too greedy, then they can either keep PLD or trade him somewhere else.

This entire dossier has had a number of strikes against it since the beginning. One. If serious talks were held and we have to believe they were either the cost was too prohibitive for HuGo to pull the trigger on. Or two. If a trade was agreed upon getting a contract in place that would satisfy both parties is extremely unlikely. The Agent will want a career defining contract and HuGo will want our salary structure to remain intact. They will not give Dubois more money than their Captain because he isn't the better player.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Trading for him doesn't mean he's going to take a significant pay cut on his next contract. Agents always know how much money other teams are willing to offer on the free market, especially someone like Brisson.

Even if you don't expect a paycut at all, if it's a sign and trade this summer, it will never reach the amount of what he could get on the free market. You can have an idea of what teams would offer, but desperation comes into play during UFA day, the kind of desperation that gives Karl Alzner a 23 million/5 year deal.

If he makes it as a UFA, there's no reason for him not to start a bidding war as a 6'3 60-70 pts C. He could get 9 million easily, and could get even nastier beyond that.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Timo isn't worth 9M either what a farce.

This entire dossier has had a number of strikes against it since the beginning. One. If serious talks were held and we have to believe they were either the cost was too prohibitive for HuGo to pull the trigger on. Two. If a trade was agreed upon getting a contract in place that would satisfy both parties is extremely unlikely. The Agent will want a career defining contract and HuGo will want our salary structure to remain intact. They will not give Dubois more money than their Captain because he isn't the better player.

The Only reason, other than being a better player, New Jersey wants to sign him at that type of price is the cost they paid to acquire him. If you trade for PLD, you risk being in the same position. At least if you are a playoff team you can justify it as maybe the piece that puts you over the top. A non playoff team like Montreal needs to be sure the end will justify the means, as he alone will not turn you into one, will possibly cost you draft positions, while also weakening your depth by whatever picks and prospects you use to acquire him.

 

[JohnTheBaptist]

That's fine. If he doesn't actually want to come here for market value as a UFA or if we can't get a reasonably affordable trade done ahead of time, I don't mind if he goes elsewhere. He's a nice luxury add because we still kinda need a 2C and he can also just fill a need at LW if Dach ends up truly popping as a C, but this isn't a player that will make or break our rebuild.

Dach will be 1C soon enough.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

Meier isn't a center.

Very debateable if Dubois is one either. Many see him on left wing

 

[the valiant effort]

Dach will be 1C soon enough.

November

 

[Balthazar]

Very debateable if Dubois is one either. Many see him on left wing

Considering that he's been a C for almost his entire NHL career including his entire time in Winnipeg I'd say it's not that very debeatable. You may want to play him on the wing but he's going to (rightfully) ask for center money.

Meier is getting winger money.

 

[OnTheRun]

The Only reason, other than being a better player, New Jersey wants to sign him at that type of price is the cost they paid to acquire him. If you trade for PLD, you risk being in the same position. At least if you are a playoff team you can justify it as maybe the piece that puts you over the top. A non playoff team like Montreal needs to be sure the end will justify the means, as he alone will not turn you into one, will possibly cost you draft positions, while also weakening your depth by whatever picks and prospects you use to acquire him.

The only reason is Meier asking anything below 11% is legit and within his price tag. The Devils will try to bring this closer to 10%... then they will probably settle for something close to 10.5%.