Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[MXD]

Dubois has averaged 24 goals per 82 games during his NHL career...............Caufield has averaged 35 goals per 82 games in his much shorter NHL career. These are facts based on performance so far in their respective careers.

Cole Caufield also never factually shown he can play full seasons, which is something that has to be considered when about to give him a contract.

... Also, by the very metric you've chosen, Dubois is superior to Suzuki.

 

[salbutera]

My major takeaway is that I'm baffled that Brendan Kelly is still paid to write about hockey.

He’s not, he’s paid to write about music, weekly hockey article is a side gig

 

[Heffyhoof]

Suzuki is better right now, and Caufield is better right now too. Echoing many others, I've no interest in giving up major assets for or a large salary being given to a player who'll be our 3rd best forward and with Dach, Slafkovsky, 5OA coming, will end up our 4th-6th best forward.

If the trade ask isn't ridiculous and his salary comes in below Suzuki's I'd be more amenable to acquiring him

 

[TomKosto]

Suzuki is better right now, and Caufield is better right now too. Echoing many others, I've no interest in giving up major assets for or a large salary being given to a player who'll be our 3rd best forward and with Dach, Slafkovsky, 5OA coming, will end up our 4th-6th best forward.

If the trade ask isn't ridiculous and his salary comes in below Suzuki's I'd be more amenable to acquiring him

I'm not sure Dach is gonna be a better player than Dubois, and Slaf/futur 5 ov are no sure thing. He will be our 2nd-3rd best player for a while, I'd trade for him too if the return is not too much.

 

[BLONG7]

Cole Caufield also never factually shown he can play full seasons, which is something that has to be considered when about to give him a contract.

... Also, by the very metric you've chosen, Dubois is superior to Suzuki.

Agreed, it's early in his career to give him 8 years and 8M.............scoring goals the way he has will do that to an agent and GM...........

As for Dubois/Suzuki, they are both at this point 60 pt players, but one is a little younger and heading in a better direction to be closer to a PPG guy, and plays C at all times, the other is more of a bang and crash winger..........

I still would like to see PLD added to our core, as long as the cost is not out to lunch.

Cole Caufield also never factually shown he can play full seasons, which is something that has to be considered when about to give him a contract.

... Also, by the very metric you've chosen, Dubois is superior to Suzuki.

Agreed, it's early in his career to give him 8 years and 8M.............scoring goals the way he has will do that to an agent and GM...........

As for Dubois/Suzuki, they are both at this point 60 pt players, but one is a little younger and heading in a better direction to be closer to a PPG guy, and plays C at all times, the other is more of a bang and crash winger..........

I still would like to see PLD added to our core, as long as the cost is not out to lunch.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I love how the main argument of PLD to MTL fans is bashing Suzuki and Caufield and claiming PLD is the best of the three.

Let's review: We know PLD is not good enough to be the main driver of a successful team (ample evidence - everyone should know this). So, the ONLY reason the Habs could possibly have to trade for him is if they think Suzuki and Caufield ARE good enough and want an extra support player.

But PLD fans are quick to insist that PLD is just as good or better. Well, using that argument there's no way the Habs should trade for yet another sub-optimal player. They need to find drivers to lead the rebuild. If none of their guys are good enough to be that, adding more mediocrity will just push the Habs closer to the dreaded drive for the 8 spot and perennial bubble team. No thanks. Hope the Habs do it right.

 

[Deleted member 257557]

I love how the main argument of PLD to MTL fans is bashing Suzuki and Caufield and claiming PLD is the best of the three.

Let's review: We know PLD is not good enough to be the main driver of a successful team (ample evidence - everyone should know this). So, the ONLY reason the Habs could possibly have to trade for him is if they think Suzuki and Caufield ARE good enough and want an extra support player.

But PLD fans are quick to insist that PLD is just as good or better. Well, using that argument there's no way the Habs should trade for yet another sub-optimal player. They need to find drivers to lead the rebuild. If none of their guys are good enough to be that, adding more mediocrity will just push the Habs closer to the dreaded drive for the 8 spot and perennial bubble team. No thanks. Hope the Habs do it right.

I feel your mediocrity threshold is perhaps a bit low?

Also I doubt there are many “optimal” players available for trade?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Suzuki is better right now, and Caufield is better right now too. Echoing many others, I've no interest in giving up major assets for or a large salary being given to a player who'll be our 3rd best forward and with Dach, Slafkovsky, 5OA coming, will end up our 4th-6th best forward.

If the trade ask isn't ridiculous and his salary comes in below Suzuki's I'd be more amenable to acquiring him

Predicting that Dubois will be our 4th-6th best forward is pretty f***ing bold.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Predicting that Dubois will be our 4th-6th best forward is pretty f***ing bold.

Perhaps I should've phrased it better, I meant end up as in 2-3 years. Because if in three years Dubois, assuming we acquire him, is our 3rd best forward, our rebuild was likely a failure barring some late bloomers.

 

[Deluded Puck]

i dont think people are expecting a superstar 100 point player from Dubois i think we all know PLD can become a good 70 to 80 points top 6 player for us that plays with grit he can even reach ppg hes only 24 not saying you but i see some people here talking about him like hes about to turn 30 hes only a few months older then Suzuki he can still become even better

“i dont think people are expecting a superstar 100 point player from DROUIN i think we all know DROUIN can become a good 70 to 80 points top 6 player …”

-post in 2016, probably

 

[BehindTheTimes]

No, I completely understood the suggestion.

I was just pointing out that when the Canadiens trade for him, it's because he's so eager to be a Canadien he will sign an extension and forgo free agency.

Strangely though, you cannot wait to sign him as a free agent because some other team might swoop in and offer him more.

Which begs the question: why does he forgo free agency and sign with Montreal if a trade is made? If the answer is because he really wants to play here, then how come he won't come and sign here as a free agent?

It's odd how some people here want it to be both ways.

Some ppl are delusional, their logic isn’t sound. We know that.

Anyone else concerned about PLD's propensity to quit when the going gets tough? I don't understand why he would want to play in the pressure filled atmosphere of Montreal. I don't see it being a good fit.

I just never really liked this player.

Same, I don’t know if I would sign him at all.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Patrick did not win a gold medal with Team Canada....finished 4th and that was with #99 and Lindros on his team.

He played lights out against Hasek, but Hasek was better. Price never had a hasek to deal with.

It’s a team game and these statements are silly. Most goalies nowadays are comparable in value, the separation is from the quality of team in front. Pat Riot is 100% correct. I hope we never again see a netminder as our highest paid player. If there was a book on what not to do in a salary cap era, this would be point number 1.

Price was a stud and had a few excellent seasons, unfortunately, injuries derailed his career imo. Price hasn’t been elite in over 1/2 a decade. It’s true, but some fans can’t let it go.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

He played lights out against Hasek, but Hasek was better. Price never had a hasek to deal with.

It’s a team game and these statements are silly. Most goalies nowadays are comparable in value, the separation is from the quality of team in front. Pat Riot is 100% correct. I hope we never again see a netminder as our highest paid player. If there was a book on what not to do in a salary cap era, this would be point number 1.

Price was a stud and had a few excellent seasons, unfortunately, injuries derailed his career imo. Price hasn’t been elite in over 1/2 a decade. It’s true, but some fans can’t let it go.

Maybe in season play, but his last play in the playoffs was elite.

However the rest is correct.

These playoffs are showing you need 2 fairly good goalies rather than an elite goalie.

Oettinger is the based goalie left and he's still getting pulled left and right.

Focus on centres and d, get a really good core and then get competent goaltending.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I’m

Maybe in season play, but his last play in the playoffs was elite.

However the rest is correct.

These playoffs are showing you need 2 fairly good goalies rather than an elite goalie.

Oettinger is the based goalie left and he's still getting pulled left and right.

Focus on centres and d, get a really good core and then get competent goaltending.

his last playoffs get overblowned imo. He was awesome against Toronto and very average against Vegas. If not for MAF’s performance we likely don’t get out of that series and he was poor vs Tampa.

He did steal a series though, but hasn’t been able to sustain play at a high level for a long ass time. Several years of ups and downs, mostly due to injuries.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I made a comment and you rode in on your white horse to save…. Who exactly? I said MSL and Hughes have done a good job finding that balance that todays players like. You decided to take a shot at me, so I responded.

I’m not sure exactly what offended you - where I said that today’s Video game generation is more coddled? Did that hit a little too close to home?

We just witnessed Darryl Sutter get fired in Calgary - why? Because he doesn’t have any empathy for players whining and complaining. He’s more interested in them doing their job, not hearing about their feelings, and most don’t like that approach. That’s just todays reality. It didn’t happen in the past, thus the coddled part. Not liking facts doesn’t make them less true.

This is an oversimplification.

1. Communication is key. You don’t need to coddle a player but you have to be able to communicate well.

2. Sutter was fired partially because he had a North South system and they traded for an East West player. The coach didn’t adjust around the player and the player wasn’t suited for the system.

3. You’re right, coddling is poison. I see that happening with Marner in Toronto and we saw the result. But the days of coaching bullies is coming to an end - and that’s a very good thing. A guy like Therrien should never have been near the bench. How many promising careers were derailed because of Neanderthals like him?

Sutter was the wrong guy in that chair. I’m not saying he can’t be successful elsewhere but he is set in his ways. And that doesn’t always work.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I’m

his last playoffs get overblowned imo. He was awesome against Toronto and very average against Vegas. If not for MAF’s performance we likely don’t get out of that series and he was poor vs Tampa.

It was an epic run no matter how many times you try to downplay it.

He did steal a series though, but hasn’t been able to sustain play at a high level for a long ass time. Several years of ups and downs, mostly due to injuries.

He was among the best players in the league until 2017-18. Then his numbers nosedived. Why? Because Weber got hurt and and he had a carousel of awful blueliners like Schlemko in front of him. At forward we had Drouin at center and Galchenyuk on the wing.

Total gong show.

We took an awesome goalie and put clowns in front of him. The crash in the numbers was entirely predictable.

 

[Vachon23]

It was an epic run no matter how many times you try to downplay it.

He was among the best players in the league until 2017-18. Then his numbers nosedived. Why? Because Weber got hurt and and he had a carousel of awful blueliners like Schlemko in front of him. At forward we had Drouin at center and Galchenyuk on the wing.

Total gong show.

We took an awesome goalie and put clowns in front of him. The crash in the numbers was entirely predictable.

We where a powerhouse between 2012-2016 even with Michel Therrien as HC and DD and Plekanec as top 6 C but yes Price was overated and it’s not a good idea to have a good goalie in your core….

Some should think at what they are saying before writing nonsense

 

[FerrisRox]

I’m

his last playoffs get overblowned imo. He was awesome against Toronto and very average against Vegas. If not for MAF’s performance we likely don’t get out of that series and he was poor vs Tampa.

He did steal a series though, but hasn’t been able to sustain play at a high level for a long ass time. Several years of ups and downs, mostly due to injuries.

How do you arrive at him being "very average" against Las Vegas?

He played six games against Vegas and surrendered more than 2 goals in only one of those games. He had games of .949, .956 and .9613 save percentages. That's outstanding goaltending.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

How do you arrive at him being "very average" against Las Vegas?

He played six games against Vegas and surrendered more than 2 goals in only one of those games. He had games of .949, .956 and .9613 save percentages. That's outstanding goaltending.

I noticed you didn’t include the .905 and .867 games. How come?

Plus, I watched the games, not a lot of high danger shots and a couple of softies were let in.

Overall, his numbers were very good in that series, but watching the games tells you most goalies could have done it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I noticed you didn’t include the .905 and .867 games. How come?

Plus, I watched the games, not a lot of high danger shots and a couple of softies were let in.

Overall, his numbers were very good in that series, but watching the games tells you most goalies could have done it.

Yeeeeah.

 

[BLONG7]

He played lights out against Hasek, but Hasek was better. Price never had a hasek to deal with.

It’s a team game and these statements are silly. Most goalies nowadays are comparable in value, the separation is from the quality of team in front. Pat Riot is 100% correct. I hope we never again see a netminder as our highest paid player. If there was a book on what not to do in a salary cap era, this would be point number 1.

Price was a stud and had a few excellent seasons, unfortunately, injuries derailed his career imo. Price hasn’t been elite in over 1/2 a decade. It’s true, but some fans can’t let it go.

Good points, but the bottom line is, Roy did not win a gold medal. So there goes the Price won a gold medal, and any goalie can win a gold medal with TC.
The whole discussion was surrounded with Price has never had any kind of offense support that the other goalies did have during their Habs career.

Roy or Dryden or Plante would not have won Cups with Davey Desharnais as their #1 Centre either.
We have had great goalies over the years, and great team that's for sure, but just not in the last 10 years or so.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I noticed you didn’t include the .905 and .867 games. How come?

Plus, I watched the games, not a lot of high danger shots and a couple of softies were let in.

Overall, his numbers were very good in that series, but watching the games tells you most goalies could have done it.

A spectacularly poor post. Wow.

 

[CHwest]

Predicting that Dubois will be our 4th-6th best forward is pretty f***ing bold.

You predicting he will slip to 3rd line duties?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

People need to forget Dubois lol it’s not happening.

What’s funnier is the jets board who thinks the habs are desperate for him and would pay the #5 pick. Or Dach for him.

No. And no.

If PLD wants to come here as a UFA, great. But I'm not keen on giving up assets - certainly not Dach or the 5th overall for him. Forget that.

 

[MXD]

No. And no.

If PLD wants to come here as a UFA, great. But I'm not keen on giving up assets - certainly not Dach or the 5th overall for him. Forget that.

See, I definitely think there was something to be done around Fla 1st + Mesar (and a contract, probably Dvorak).

But that was with 17th OA. Not 32nd.

I'd rather have PLD at somewhere around 7.5M than not having him at all, as this is team that could definitely use him as a support player on the Top-6 (and, well, probably the Top-3). However, since he isn't exactly one of a kind (C/W with size and physicality who are good for 60pts/year and who are at least league-average defensively their super common, but Dubois is also not super physical, neither super quick), I'd rather NOT have him at all than give him the 9.5M/yr he could probably get next summer by virtue of the cap going significantly up for the first time in ages.