Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[The Gr8 Dane]

 

[Runner77]

He was the winner because he was the best player each and every game.

Carey Price was not treated like a prince. I don’t know why you write that. Carey started his career as a rowdy guy from the West discovering what a big city was. It cost him a couple of years in his development. When he gained maturity, we saw the real Carey with the media AND his teammates: solemn, quiet, shy and close to his origins.

Each and everyone of his performances were dissected by all pundits and fans. Amongst Joe Fan, he was as polarizing (by those who never forgave Habs trading Halak - imagine that) as any other player in recent history. Every social media post about him had fans split in the middle. HOF goalies in Mtl have always been polarizing in the fans’ mind: Dryden had multiple Cups and Vezinas, yet was doubted by MANY who thought you could put a drunken Bunny Larocque in nets and Habs would win as much; Patrick Roy won Cups, Vezinas and Conn Smythes, yet MANY fans and pundits (many here) think he got too big for the team.

See a pattern? Since Georges Vézina, this franchise has always been able to develop and carry HOFers between the pipes. Legends, litterally. So your reaction and those of many is not surprising.

Sam has it easy right now because the team sucks. Once the team is built, the goalie in Mtl will have pressure by the wazoo. And some will find him cuddled. As you do with Price.

I, myself, consider that it has been a priviledge to have seen great pioneers in nets with our team like 29, 33 and 31. We were NOT lucky with our forwards over the last 30 years. But man, we have been blessed by HOFers between the pipes. Blessed.

Plus ça change, plus c’est pareil.

Agreed for the most part except that it wasn’t all the result of bad luck that we had subpar forwards over the last 30 years.

It was a mix of incompetence, unreliable scouting, Geoff wearing too many hats and in particular acting in a role he was not suited for i.e. as a hockey executive and not reacting fast enough to avert disasters or continuing to trust the wrong people and generally ownership choosing not to use their privileged position as one of the league’s top 3-4 revenue teams year over year in those last 30 years and not use that advantage to poach and lure the best available hockey minds and staff and generally the failure to make greater investments in non-cap restricted areas.

 

[Pat Riot]

Sometimes the best thing are right in front of you and you don’t wanna see it

Price in another sweater would have been describe on another level here, it’s sad

Thats the thing I dont believe goalie are on another level. And honestly having a goalie like Price who took the team to the cleaner with his monstruous contract its far from the best thing for the team.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Thats the thing I dont believe goalie are on another level. And honestly having a goalie like Price who took the team to the cleaner with his monstruous contract its far from the best thing for the team.

In leadership of a team, the goalie being the leader is not as effective as the 1rst center or the best defenseman. Because that leadership is not linked with scoring goals.

 

[Pat Riot]

In leadership of a team, the goalie being the leader is not as effective as the 1rst center or the best defenseman. Because that leadership is not linked with scoring goals.

1st line center and 1 pair of defenceman will impact far more performance of the team.

Price and Bobrovski contract were big mistake, it will take a long time before we see another goalier having such a big contract. The cap salary will have to double atleast before it happen

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

1st line center and 1 pair of defenceman will impact far more performance of the team.

Price and Bobrovski contract were big mistake, it will take a long time before we see another goalier having such a big contract. The cap salary will have to double atleast before it happen

Price contract was not a mistake considering this team was never going to rebuild.

Price deserved every penny of that contract. He was the only reason we were somewhat relevant for a decade.

I was in the trade Price camp and go scorched earth but realistically that was never going to happen in a million years.

We got a finals run out of it and we are living the best case scenario of the Price contract right now withy him on LTIR so we really can't complain much in hindsight

 

[HuGo Sham]

Agreed for the most part except that it wasn’t all the result of bad luck that we had subpar forwards over the last 30 years.

It was a mix of incompetence, unreliable scouting, Geoff wearing too many hats and in particular acting in a role he was not suited for i.e. as a hockey executive and not reacting fast enough to avert disasters or continuing to trust the wrong people and generally ownership choosing not to use their privileged position as one of the league’s top 3-4 revenue teams year over year in those last 30 years and not use that advantage to poach and lure the best available hockey minds and staff and generally to make greater investments in non-cap restricted areas.

this ^^^^

 

[Pat Riot]

Price contract was not a mistake considering this team was never going to rebuild.

Price deserved every penny of that contract. He was the only reason we were somewhat relevant for a decade.

I was in the trade Price camp and go scorched earth but realistically that was never going to happen in a million years.

We got a finals run out of it and we are living the best case scenario of the Price contract right now withy him on LTIR so we really can't complain much in hindsight

Thats a false narrative. I dont know how you buy into that. At one point Price was plying behind the most expensive def of the league. We had some good players during his time in the team.
Like if Price was the only important player. I stand by what I said. He was overpaid and overrated
Now that he is gone. You will see the team reach another level

 

[MXD]

Thats a false narrative. I dont know how you buy into that. At one point Price was plying behind the most expensive def of the league. We had some good players during his time in the team.
Like if Price was the only important player. I stand by what I said. He was overpaid and overrated
Now that he is gone. You will see the team reach another level

We indeed reached another level since he's gone.

FTR, I do think Price's 10.5M contract was a mistake; it doesn't mean he didn't deserve it (but that's the issue with paying for past performances).

 

[Pat Riot]

We indeed reached another level since he's gone.

FTR, I do think Price's 10.5M contract was a mistake; it doesn't mean he didn't deserve it (but that's the issue with paying for past performances).

We were at this level too with Price in the team. Now that he is gone we can focus and rebuild our team correctly. With Allen and Montembault for duo I can tell HUGO have a good understanding of the goalie position and their importance in a club. Hopefully they dont fall in the trap media and some fans whi are clamoring we should waste assets in trading for a goalie

 

[CHwest]

Price contract was not a mistake considering this team was never going to rebuild.

Price deserved every penny of that contract. He was the only reason we were somewhat relevant for a decade.

I was in the trade Price camp and go scorched earth but realistically that was never going to happen in a million years.

We got a finals run out of it and we are living the best case scenario of the Price contract right now withy him on LTIR so we really can't complain much in hindsight

Bergevin was kept employed because of Cary.

 

[Pat Riot]

Bergevin was kept employed because of Cary.

More because Molson had a man crush on Bergy. It took everything to let him go. We had a lot of bad seasons with Price as number one. The numbers dont lie

 

[BLONG7]

Thats a false narrative. I dont know how you buy into that. At one point Price was plying behind the most expensive def of the league. We had some good players during his time in the team.
Like if Price was the only important player. I stand by what I said. He was overpaid and overrated
Now that he is gone. You will see the team reach another level

There was ZERO offense out in front of Price.................ONE 80 pt forward in his career, and it was Kovy in Price's rookie year.
You have to score goals to win the game................hanging everything on Price, with the hey, we can make da playoff, and who knows mantra..........................FFS.
No, it was not the right way to build a team, Price himself would tell you that............but when your team scores 2 goals a night, you can only allow 1 and that;s just stupid.

Price deserved his money, and Mol$on and Bergevin did NOT. Big Fail, and here we are, and Mol$on has admitted the whole thing was a fail. None of which was Price's fault or doing.

 

[Pat Riot]

I

 

[BaseballCoach]

Agreed for the most part except that it wasn’t all the result of bad luck that we had subpar forwards over the last 30 years.

It was a mix of incompetence, unreliable scouting, Geoff wearing too many hats and in particular acting in a role he was not suited for i.e. as a hockey executive and not reacting fast enough to avert disasters or continuing to trust the wrong people and generally ownership choosing not to use their privileged position as one of the league’s top 3-4 revenue teams year over year in those last 30 years and not use that advantage to poach and lure the best available hockey minds and staff and generally the failure to make greater investments in non-cap restricted areas.

I essentially agree.

What is NOT the reason we fell way short of competing is the extra $1.5-2.0M paid to Price, compared to an ideal contract.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The biggest part of the "Dubois debate" that doesn't get much attention, is his contract demands. I think most people could agree Dubois can help the team in the mid-long term. He's young enough, big body, can play C, and plays a well-rounded game.

I also think most people can also agree, trading for Dubois just for next year doesn't help the team's goals, so any trade needs to come with/ or have in the works a long-term extension. The problem is, he knows he's just a year away from FA so he has some leverage there.

For example, trading for Dubois with an extension in place at 9M vs 7M on a 6-7 year deal has two vastly different values to the Canadiens. One makes him the marquee player, the other makes him part of the core group.

Personally, I'd be happy if he's part of the core group, but I'm not sure about the marquee player.

To fit in our structure, Dubois should be making Suzuki-type money or very slightly less.

$9M is not a number that should be considered.

 

[Benstheman]

To fit in our structure, Dubois should be making Suzuki-type money or very slightly less.

$9M is not a number that should be considered.

Yeah 9M$ is too much. It would probably be around 8M$ to be honest. What would be interesting if we trade for him this summer is signing him to a 1 year, with a bigger salary, with an immediate 8 years extension with a lower AAV to balance.

Let’s say they trade for him and have a mutual agreement on the value of PLD for next year has a last year RFA and for the 7-8 years after that as a UFA.

If the value is 7M$ for his last RFA year and 8M$ AAV for his next 8 years contract, you give him 11M$ for his RFA year and drop the AAV for his next contract accordingly, so 7,5M$ per, which help the teams during their competitive seasons.

 

[BLONG7]

To fit in our structure, Dubois should be making Suzuki-type money or very slightly less.

$9M is not a number that should be considered.

Makes sense.............If you are going to buy into a winning formula, you just can't have a top 6 guy like PLD making more money than your best player....and Suzuki is our best all around player, and everyone knows it.

I worry that PLD and Brisson are just using the habs to drive their $$$ in a long contract up north of 9M but no way he is worth that.......no way. If he got 60 pts with the Jets, he is more than likely to get 60 pts with the habs....

Yeah 9M$ is too much. It would probably be around 8M$ to be honest. What would be interesting if we trade for him this summer is signing him to a 1 year, with a bigger salary, with an immediate 8 years extension with a lower AAV to balance.

Let’s say they trade for him and have a mutual agreement on the value of PLD for next year has a last year RFA and for the 7-8 years after that as a UFA.

If the value is 7M$ for his last RFA year and 8M$ AAV for his next 8 years contract, you give him 11M$ for his RFA year and drop the AAV for his next contract accordingly, so 7,5M$ per, which help the teams during their competitive seasons.

I like this..............is that you Kent?

 

[Kimota]

In a vacuum, no.

It's the kind of movie you watch if:
-You are a huge Boorman fan.
-Doing a Sean Connery marathon.
-Huge fan of early 70s sci-fi movies.

Anyway the movie should still be available on Disney+, if anyone care that much about it.

I like these three things.

....and it was not worth it.

I always thought this was primed for a good remake though. The idea of a dystopian future based on Wizard of Oz has potential. Make it a Netflix show.

 

[OnTheRun]

I like these thee things.

....and it was not worth it.

I always thought this was primed for a good remake though. The idea of a dystopian future based on Wizard of Oz has potential. Make it a Netflix show.

If they make it less tedious to watch than the original, sure I guess a remake could work, but at the same time I can't imagine anyone rushing to invest in a project to remake that one.

 

[Merci Saku]

Thats a false narrative. I dont know how you buy into that. At one point Price was plying behind the most expensive def of the league. We had some good players during his time in the team.
Like if Price was the only important player. I stand by what I said. He was overpaid and overrated
Now that he is gone. You will see the team reach another level

It was a lose-lose for the Canadiens because of fans like you who really have no clue how to value talent or a player. Sorry to be rude but it’s obvious to some habs fan, to the others players on the opposing team and to the management of the 31 other teams that Carey was the best goalie

Canadiens signed him and it’s a mistake to some, Canadiens don’t sign him and trade him before his big contract and everyone would be calling for Bergevin’s head

Maybe in retrospect, they should have done it so that Carey would more respected here in this weird province of Quebec

 

[salbutera]

Agreed for the most part except that it wasn’t all the result of bad luck that we had subpar forwards over the last 30 years.

It was a mix of incompetence, unreliable scouting, Geoff wearing too many hats and in particular acting in a role he was not suited for i.e. as a hockey executive and not reacting fast enough to avert disasters or continuing to trust the wrong people and generally ownership choosing not to use their privileged position as one of the league’s top 3-4 revenue teams year over year in those last 30 years and not use that advantage to poach and lure the best available hockey minds and staff and generally the failure to make greater investments in non-cap restricted areas.

That’s the ultimate misconception of the Les Canadiens de Montreal. In its entire gloriously 100+ years the Habs best homegrown Cs have been Pocket Rocket, Lemaire, Koivu and Plekanec - not one was a top-20 scorer

The Habs haven’t drafted a legit top-10 offensive force sonce 20-yr old Lafleur in 1970 - that’s 53 years not 30. Mark Messiers father pleaded with Pollock & Grundman in 1979 to draft his son, the reply “he isn’t NHL caliber”…

Identifying & developing offensive talent isn’t a 30 yr issue …. Oh yeah Habs also had the greatest development guru in the history of the NHL from 1970 (Lafleur pick) -till his retirement in 1993, yet pfffftt from a top-10 offensive star except the anomaly season of 85-86 by Naslund where he had 70-pts by early Dec and ended up w 110 by seasons end

 

[Kimota]

If they make it less tedious to watch than the original, sure I guess a remake could work, but at the same time I can't imagine anyone rushing to invest in a project to remake that one.

I feel like it's always better to pick those imperfect movies or tv shows from the past to remake them rather than the ones that were great and perfect to begin with. I don't understand why Hollywood doesn't do it more often. Because there is less controversy attached to it and you could really do something special with it.

 

[Guy Larose]

Anyone else concerned about PLD's propensity to quit when the going gets tough? I don't understand why he would want to play in the pressure filled atmosphere of Montreal. I don't see it being a good fit.

I just never really liked this player.

We know you don't like him, you've only said it multiple times over the last few days...and he hasn't quit on anything. It's been explained a thousand times already but it seems people don't read on a message board nowadays.

 

[Habitant#1]

I’d only trade for PLD if he accepts a Suzuki cap hit. He has to accept he is not coming here to be the number one star.

I’d be happy to frontload the contract with bonuses and whatnot, but the cap hit will not be better than Suzuki’s.