Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[JRichard]

Hey thanks for the information. How does playying in the US count? Considering they play about 30 games in the US a year, does that deduct from the 183 days?

Also the latest discussion is Dach for PLD What a joke these pundits are trying real hard to find something to talk about.

Yeah at some point Dach might become as good as Dubois…

PLD 5 of 6 seasons produced between 48-63. That includes his 20-21-22 yrs old years.
KD’s best is 38. He is 22.

KD has a lot of work to do to catch PLD’s ppg.
He has to score 75 next 3yrs and needs PLD to break a leg and score 0 point just to catch him. Tough odds.

 

[The Great Weal]

Imagine we wait until July 1 2024 and Aho actually signs with us instead.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Imagine we wait until July 1 2024 and Aho actually signs with us instead.

"I always wanted to play here and was mad that Carolina matched. "

 

[The Great Weal]

"I always wanted to play here and was mad that Carolina matched. "

Would be the first time Bergevin's 10D chess move actually works.

 

[CHwest]

Yeah at some point Dach might become as good as Dubois…

PLD 5 of 6 seasons produced between 48-63. That includes his 20-21-22 yrs old years.
KD’s best is 38. He is 22.

KD has a lot of work to do to catch PLD’s ppg.
He has to score 75 next 3yrs and needs PLD to break a leg and score 0 point just to catch him. Tough odds.

That is an extremely simplistic way of looking at it. Dach will no doubt end up a better and I feel much better player.

 

[Habricot]

Qc is 31st of December and Canada is being in the country for more then 6 months.

Are you sure because when I moved in Ontario 10 years ago it was also the 31st there.

 

[nhlfan9191]

You said no and then proceeded to use the rest of your post to pretty much state an entire scenario you just made up in your head.

Another thing - in what world have everything we read about Dubois' desire to be in Montreal does anything to help him or the Jets? How does Pat Brisson coming out and proclaiming at the draft that Dubois wants to play for Montreal help drive up interest from other teams? It makes no sense. They'd be better off just not saying anything at all and negotiating with everyone. They don't need to do this to drive up interest. Like, at all.

The amount of head in the sand posts that we read in this thread is incredible. Just say you don't want the player. It's okay.

It’s not a made up scenario tho. It’s just how contract negotiations work. If another team knows he has a destination in mind, which Brisson put out there in the media that he does, then the offers that come in from other teams are going to have to be more aggressive if he makes it to UFA, especially if we show interest as well. It’s not about driving up his interest, it’s about driving up his market value. I never once said I wouldn’t take him on this team, that’s you putting words in my mouth. I do however think it has to make complete sense if it does happen and there’s a lot posts in this thread fueled by over excitement at the price of logic. This is a thread about a player potentially coming here, so of course I’m going to look at every single angle and there’s lots to look at when it comes to Dubois which is why we have a 100 page thread on him before he’s even part of our team.

 

[OnTheRun]

You think the *player* is going to get charged with tampering? How would that work? Who would do it?

How did you arrive at the conclusion he could only say those two things? Why couldn't he say "Next year is next year, maybe I will be with the Jets, maybe they will trade me elsewhere, that's up to management, but either way, I look forward to exploring free agency in the summer of 2024."

Maybe you just took this too literally?

""Next year is next year, maybe I will be with the Jets, maybe they will trade me elsewhere, that's up to management," Is just a variation of "I want to stay with the Jets" and the 2nd part is a variation of I want to test the market.

What he cannot do is waltz in front of the camera and say he want to play for the Coyotes, or any specific team that isn't the Jets, next year or the year after. Once he hit UFA status he can drop the vagueness.

 

[NORiculous]

Are you sure because when I moved in Ontario 10 years ago it was also the 31st there.

We have two levels of government and so we have two rules.

EDIT: go see Salbutera’s previous post. He explains it.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It’s not a made up scenario tho. It’s just how contract negotiations work. If another team knows he has a destination in mind, which Brisson put out there in the media that he does, then the offers that come in from other teams are going to have to be more aggressive if he makes it to UFA, especially if we show interest as well. It’s not about driving up his interest, it’s about driving up his market value. I never once said I wouldn’t take him on this team, that’s you putting words in my mouth. I do however think it has to make complete sense if it does happen and there’s a lot posts in this thread fueled by over excitement at the price of logic. This is a thread about a player potentially coming here, so of course I’m going to look at every single angle and there’s lots to look at when it comes to Dubois which is why we have a 100 page thread on him before he’s even part of our team.

I don't think that's true at all and if it were, why wouldn't Brisson use this tactic for his other clients?

Like, how is this going to make Dubois more money? How does this not make teams potentially back off and instead think that they might be getting played to get more out of Montreal?

It would be completely unnecessary for Brisson to do this. Dubois can just get paid by keeping options open and stating that. Why would Dubois be telling people in Winnipeg that he wants to play in Montreal, as was reported by Murat Ates?

I'm really not meaning to insult you or any thing but I don't think your hypothesis holds up at all.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Harris , Farell , 2nd round pick

 

[Frenchy]

Harris , Farell , 2nd round pick

View attachment 701116

shit ! i wasnt expecting that face ... you scared the hell out of me .

 

[salbutera]

Are you sure because when I moved in Ontario 10 years ago it was also the 31st there.

Dec 31st is for establishing which provincial tax rate in Canada applies to a Canadian resident

Original question was about US / Canada taxation with regards to bonus payment to a U.S. resident and what is qualification basis for CDN vs US residency

 

[nhlfan9191]

I don't think that's true at all and if it were, why wouldn't Brisson use this tactic for his other clients?

Like, how is this going to make Dubois more money? How does this not make teams potentially back off and instead think that they might be getting played to get more out of Montreal?

It would be completely unnecessary for Brisson to do this. Dubois can just get paid by keeping options open and stating that. Why would Dubois be telling people in Winnipeg that he wants to play in Montreal, as was reported by Murat Ates?

I'm really not meaning to insult you or any thing but I don't think your hypothesis holds up at all.

I’m not taking it as insult. The reason I’ve hung around these PLD threads is for interesting debate in an otherwise pretty uneventful season. The way I see it, Brisson knows what local talent means to this franchise and when you combine that with the fact the center position has been an achillies heel here for decades, it’s easy to see why there’s connection between us. We were interested in this player before he was even drafted and Subban was made available. I do think Brisson has been trying to work that to his advantage whether it was with Columbus when he asked to be traded in 2020 or Winnipeg where he wasn’t looking to commit to the them and reach unrestricted free agency as fast as possible. There is a benefit to other teams thinking he wants to come here as they will likely offer him way more then he’s worth trying to bribe him away from Montreal similar to what happened with Tavares. In Tavares case, he had Toronto fans convinced that $11 million was a “discount” because other teams were willing to spend stupidly when in reality his agent played negotiations perfect.

 

[Mudz]

I think he just did by accepting the qualifying offer while everyone knows he's worth more.

Exactly lol.

The money angle makes 0 sense in regards to the PLD situation. If anything it's quite the contrary.

First, like you said, he accepted his QO. He could have got at least 1-2 millions easily from Winnipeg. It was said that he accepted his QO so he would be easier to trade. Doesn't strike as someone who puts money over everything.

And then, during his presser with the Winnipeg medias, following that signing, he said that for him it's important to be happy where you are and look into the future, where your life will be etc...

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I’m not taking it as insult. The reason I’ve hung around these PLD threads is for interesting debate in an otherwise pretty uneventful season. The way I see it, Brisson knows what local talent means to this franchise and when you combine that with the fact the center position has been an achillies heel here for decades, it’s easy to see why there’s connection between us. We were interested in this player before he was even drafted and Subban was made available. I do think Brisson has been trying to work that to his advantage whether it was with Columbus when he asked to be traded in 2020 or Winnipeg where he wasn’t looking to commit to the them and reach unrestricted free agency as fast as possible. There is a benefit to other teams thinking he wants to come here as they will likely offer him way more then he’s worth trying to bribe him away from Montreal similar to what happened with Tavares. In Tavares case, he had Toronto fans convinced that $11 million was a “discount” because other teams were willing to spend stupidly when in reality his agent played negotiations perfect.

I guess I just don't see the necessity to go through all this when Dubois can just sit down and say 'I'll go to whoever pays me the most' and come to the exact same conclusion.

Sometimes a duck is just a duck and Brisson spoke the way he did because that's how his client feels and he works on his behalf so he tried to force an outcome.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Exactly lol.

The money angle makes 0 sense in regards to the PLD situation. If anything it's quite the contrary.

First, like you said, he accepted his QO. He could have got at least 1-2 millions easily from Winnipeg. It was said that he accepted his QO so he would be easier to trade. Doesn't strike as someone who puts money over everything.

And then, during his presser with the Winnipeg medias, following that signing, he said that for him it's important to be happy where you are and look into the future, where your life will be etc...

Eh, not really. Winnipeg wasn't going to offer him a ton without buying UFA years and he did not have a season strong enough to expect a lot more through arbitration.

 

[Habricot]

PLD never said he would only play in MTL, he just said he would like to play in MTL (and probably many other hockey markets). To me this thread is dead, watch Bergeron and Krejci retire and Boston trade for PLD. Its written in the sky!!!

 

[NORiculous]

PLD never said he would only play in MTL, he just said he would like to play in MTL (and probably many other hockey markets). To me this thread is dead, watch Bergeron and Krejci retire and Boston trade for PLD. Its written in the sky!!!

That is very possible. Will see. Would kinda be funny. lol

 

[Mudz]

Eh, not really. Winnipeg wasn't going to offer him a ton without buying UFA years and he did not have a season strong enough to expect a lot more through arbitration.

When do you see a player of PLD stature just signs his QO?

Résultats des comparables Pierre-Luc Dubois - CapFriendly - Masses salariales LNH

There's only Barzal and Petterson that really make sense, both had a similar amount of point as PLD (around .8 per) in 2021. But both didn't have arbitration rights unlikePLD. Both got 7M per year. They had more points in the past but you can factor in other stuff during arbitration, like leadership, etc.

Yeah +2 M was pushing it, but it seems obvious that he would have got at least one more million if he had decided to hold out and start some negotiations.

 

[Captain Mountain]

When do you see a player of PLD stature just signs his QO?

Résultats des comparables Pierre-Luc Dubois - CapFriendly - Masses salariales LNH

There's only Barzal and Petterson that really make sense, both had a similar amount of point as PLD (around .8 per) in 2021. But both didn't have arbitration rights unlikePLD. Both got 7M per year. They had more points in the past but you can factor in other stuff during arbitration, like leadership, etc.

Yeah +2 M was pushing it, but it seems obvious that he would have got at least one more million if he had decided to hold out and start some negotiations.

I'm not sure what "stature" you think PLD has or why you interpreted by comment about being about QOs, but both Barzal and especially Pettersson had better comparables AND intangibles than Dubois.

And thats kind of the point. It makes perfect sense for Dubois to not nickel and dime for an extra million here or there if his plan is to be a 25 year old UFA. Because he'll be able to cash in that way.

I think its been clear for a while that Dubois' situation is analogous to Trouba's. And I think in both cases, the player has a team they'd prefer to go to, but they're probably not signing there unless its a UFA competitive contract.

 

[HABitual Fan]

When do you see a player of PLD stature just signs his QO?

Résultats des comparables Pierre-Luc Dubois - CapFriendly - Masses salariales LNH

There's only Barzal and Petterson that really make sense, both had a similar amount of point as PLD (around .8 per) in 2021. But both didn't have arbitration rights unlikePLD. Both got 7M per year. They had more points in the past but you can factor in other stuff during arbitration, like leadership, etc.

Yeah +2 M was pushing it, but it seems obvious that he would have got at least one more million if he had decided to hold out and start some negotiations.

If he refused his QO, and took Winnipeg to arbitration, they had the option to lock him in at the same salary for next season as well. So he was betting on himself to have a better season and get a larger increase than 1M for next year either by negotiation or arbitration.

 

[Guiness time]

Harris , Farell , 2nd round pick

View attachment 701116

Looks and sounds like Mona Fortier!!!

 

[Bouboumaster]

Godin: Canadiens must examine red flags before going after Pierre-Luc Dubois

The possibility of acquiring Pierre-Luc Dubois may be a golden opportunity for the Canadiens, but it comes with its fair share of risk.

theathletic.com

Done

Now go get him, Hughes!!

 

[sampollock]

PLD never said he would only play in MTL, he just said he would like to play in MTL (and probably many other hockey markets). To me this thread is dead, watch Bergeron and Krejci retire and Boston trade for PLD. Its written in the sky!!!

Said this week's back
Plus
If we get pld, habs will still have Anderson too