Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Adriatic]

Boston is in big trouble cap wise.

They have 10 millions, but it will be 6 millions once bonuses are applied.

Only 7 forwards, 6 defensemen and 1 goaltender under contract for next year.

They will probably have to choose between Ullmark and Swayman. If they can clear cap, Dubois becomes a really interesting option, but it will take a lot of work.

They barely have any early rounds picks and no first till 2025.

Maybe they would try Swayman and 2025 1st but money needs to go the other side.

Hall can’t move (at least not to Winnipeg), he has an nmc for the first five years. I can’t see anyone with ntc or nmc moving to Winnepeg. Only forwards that could move are Debrusk and Zacha (who recently signed an extension so doubtful).

So Swayman (Jets can move Hellebuyck), 2025 1st and Debrusk for a signed Dubois (8x8).

Seems highly unlikely that the Bruins could get him, unless they can trade Hall to an other team. They just have no money left to do any moves.

Colorado has 13 millions, but only 6 forwards under contract. The only possible contract moving the other way would be Girard.

That’s without Byram’s extension which is probably a priority for them and Newhook.

2024 first + Girard + Newhook would be a start for a signed Dubois.

Seems unlikely too.

Hurricanes could be in the mix with 24 millions, they have a lot prospects and all their picks.
They will have to keep some money to sign Necas, Aho, Skjei and Pesce after next season.

Rangers will surely be interested, they have prospects and young players underperforming.
Money is a problem, but they could make some space.

Kings have no money either and a full line up.

Buffalo has everything needed, but not sure if Dubois would accept to sign there.

So what your saying is he's coming home

 

[MadMslm]

So what your saying is he's coming home

Could be, everything points to it.

It all depends on what Dubois considers as a market he would be interested to sign an extension in.

Most teams that have everything needed might not be markets he would be inclined to extend.

If the Jets can’t find a match, many will be interested for a rental either from the start of the year or at the deadline.

Question is, does Hughes offers something competitive or does he take the gamble on Dubois hitting free agency.

We’ll have a better idea after the draft/free agency.

 

[sandviper]

NYR can’t offer PLD the advantage of sheltering bonus $ as Habs can - so unless he really wants to live in Manhattan as Panarin did, money wise Habs are an easy choice

I said “for example”. I could had said LAK, TBL, BOS or whatever. My point is I don’t think he’ll give Montreal a discount, even if he wants to come here.

 

[Heffyhoof]

PLD needs to either be traded to Montreal or another team with a long term contract. If he gets a one-year deal taking him to FA, we will have to go through another season of this nonsense.

 

[FerrisRox]

Your claim that you want Dubois at all is disingenuous when you go on to raise flag after flag about why he is a risky acquisition.

No, it's not, and it's a bizarre claim for you to make.

What possible reason could there be for me to say I want a player that I really don't want? That's absurd? Who the hell has time to come on here and offer up fake opinions? For what possible reason?

 

[FerrisRox]

To be fair, it's one of the two things he allowed to say. It's either "I want to stay with the Jets" or "I want to test the market" everything else is tampering.

You think the *player* is going to get charged with tampering? How would that work? Who would do it?

How did you arrive at the conclusion he could only say those two things? Why couldn't he say "Next year is next year, maybe I will be with the Jets, maybe they will trade me elsewhere, that's up to management, but either way, I look forward to exploring free agency in the summer of 2024."

 

[NORiculous]

Fiscale question… dont know if anyone here has the answer but here goes:

Let’s say Dubois signs with MTL on July 3rd. Maybe the deal was ready before, doesn’t matter.

So MTL gives him a signing bonus of, let’s say, 7M.

Dubois doesn’t sell his house for, let’s say, another 2 months.

So… since he still lives in the US when the deal is signed and since he has stayed outside of Canada for more then 6 months in the current fiscal year (deal signed after July 1st), can he pay his taxes in the US for the first year of his contract?

 

[HuGo Sham]

What would be their offer?

girard, newhook +...Lysell, Swayman,Debrusk...
both teams have some young pieces

 

[SwiftyHab]

Godin: Canadiens must examine red flags before going after Pierre-Luc Dubois

The possibility of acquiring Pierre-Luc Dubois may be a golden opportunity for the Canadiens, but it comes with its fair share of risk.

theathletic.com

 

[SwiftyHab]

Fiscale question… dont know if anyone here has the answer but here goes:

Let’s say Dubois signs with MTL on July 3rd. Maybe the deal was ready before, doesn’t matter.

So MTL gives him a signing bonus of, let’s say, 7M.

Dubois doesn’t sell his house for, let’s say, another 2 months.

So… since he still lives in the US when the deal is signed and since he has stayed outside of Canada for more then 6 months in the current fiscal year (deal signed after July 1st), can he pay his taxes in the US for the first year of his contract?

Good question. For whoever answers it, can you also let me know if I can carry over my capital losses in my RRSP to the following tax year? particularly if those losses are a result of betting on prop bets that PLD will come to MTL?

 

[ML16]

Fiscale question… dont know if anyone here has the answer but here goes:

Let’s say Dubois signs with MTL on July 3rd. Maybe the deal was ready before, doesn’t matter.

So MTL gives him a signing bonus of, let’s say, 7M.

Dubois doesn’t sell his house for, let’s say, another 2 months.

So… since he still lives in the US when the deal is signed and since he has stayed outside of Canada for more then 6 months in the current fiscal year (deal signed after July 1st), can he pay his taxes in the US for the first year of his contract?

From my understanding, it’s not so much where the professional athlete lives, but rather where he plays each game. A Habs player sees 50% of his game taxed according to Québec law, but his away games are taxed in proportion and according to each province/state laws.

The main issue for Canadian player seems that unlike players who intend to retire abroad, they can’t benefit from a « retiring convention ». (But let’s not cry for them, they have plenty of other means to mitigate their tax rate, notably philanthropic endeavours.)

 

[NORiculous]

Good question. For whoever answers it, can you also let me know if I can carry over my capital losses in my RRSP to the following tax year? particularly if those losses are a result of betting on prop bets that PLD will come to MTL?

This is not advice but from what I understand Capital loss can be used until you die. You can keep it, year over year, and use it when it makes more sense.

Not sure if it changes anything being in an RRSP.

From my understanding, it’s not so much where the professional athlete lives, but rather where he plays each game. A Habs player sees 50% of his game taxed according to Québec law, but his away games are taxed in proportion and according to each province/state laws.

The main issue for Canadian player seems that unlike players who intend to retire abroad, they can’t benefit from a « retiring convention ». (But let’s not cry for them, they have plenty of other means to mitigate their tax rate, notably philanthropic endeavours.)

There is something in Canada that says living 6 months + has implications but I don’t know if this applies to hockey players who are always on the go.

 

[Habricot]

Fiscale question… dont know if anyone here has the answer but here goes:

Let’s say Dubois signs with MTL on July 3rd. Maybe the deal was ready before, doesn’t matter.

So MTL gives him a signing bonus of, let’s say, 7M.

Dubois doesn’t sell his house for, let’s say, another 2 months.

So… since he still lives in the US when the deal is signed and since he has stayed outside of Canada for more then 6 months in the current fiscal year (deal signed after July 1st), can he pay his taxes in the US for the first year of his contract?

Not sure where you took these fiscal laws but completely wrong. It all about where you live on december 31st. You could live all year in winnipeg, move to quebec in december and you will pay income taxes for the whole year in Quebec.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

He is not after the money, he didn't even negociate for more than his qualifying offer last year.

I'm willing to bet he won't be the highest player on the team just to take away some pressure. Hometown discount means better cap structure for a better team and chance at championship.

PLD wants to win and want it here. He's not after the bank.

I don't think we'll get a hometown discount but one thing I'll say is that Dubois sounds smart and resolute when he speaks so I think that if all everyone keeps hearing is that the guy's first choice is to be in Montreal, I'm guessing that's true and if he wants to be in Montreal, his primary motivation isn't salary.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Are you his spokesman? How could you possibly know what you just posted?

Couldn't we say the same about you claiming that the Habs will be used as a pawn?

 

[sampollock]

He is not after the money, he didn't even negociate for more than his qualifying offer last year.

I'm willing to bet he won't be the highest player on the team just to take away some pressure. Hometown discount means better cap structure for a better team and chance at championship.

PLD wants to win and want it here. He's not after the bank.

i don't buy that. have not met a young player that takes a pay cut. ever

 

[NORiculous]

Not sure where you took these fiscal laws but completely wrong. It all about where you live on december 31st. You could live all year in winnipeg, move to quebec in december and you will pay income taxes for the whole year in Quebec.

Qc is 31st of December and Canada is being in the country for more then 6 months.

 

[BaseballCoach]

i don't buy that. have not met a young player that takes a pay cut. ever

No pay cut. He will get a raise over his last contract, plus long-term stability which he mentioned he values.

I just feel this guy doesnt care about where
Using habs a scale for $$$ as many others

Dude just want to cash in for what he'S not worth

The more this thread is going on , the less I want him.

Why? Did PLD post something off-putting in this thread?

 

[Favster]

This thread is insane. PLD was playing injured and we are shitting on him.

Is he perfect? Nope.
Is he something we need? Hell yes.

We finally have an opportunity to buy low on a talented young player that wants to be here and some of you are saying no? SMH

 

[salbutera]

Fiscale question… dont know if anyone here has the answer but here goes:

Let’s say Dubois signs with MTL on July 3rd. Maybe the deal was ready before, doesn’t matter.

So MTL gives him a signing bonus of, let’s say, 7M.

Dubois doesn’t sell his house for, let’s say, another 2 months.

So… since he still lives in the US when the deal is signed and since he has stayed outside of Canada for more then 6 months in the current fiscal year (deal signed after July 1st), can he pay his taxes in the US for the first year of his contract?

US / Canada tax treaty eliminates double taxation. Revenue Canada’s definition of Canadian residence is 6-months + 1-day (183-days).

Surpass 183 days on CDN soil during the calendar year, obliged to pay full CDN taxes - for athletes only pay CDN taxes for the amount of time spent on Cdn soil.

1-day is defined as a full 24-hr period in Canada, US allows room for maneuverability. With US travel schedule for players during a season + off season time spent outside of Canada allows for IRS time building.

Zero state tax locales like Fla (where Huberdeau & PLD call home) do not tax any income (incl bonus, retirement etc.)

IRS does not view bonus as income whereas Revenue Canada does

Auston Matthews present contract:
Year 1: $15.2 million signing bonus, $700,000 salary
Year 2: $15.2 million signing bonus, $700,000 salary
Year 3: $9.7 million signing bonus, $750,000 salary
Year 4: $7.2 million signing bonus, $750,000 salary
Year 5: $7.2 million signing bonus, $750,000 salary

Matthews’ does not get taxed on all his signing bonus money, only his salary for CDN tax purposes.

Since his offseason US residence is Az, who don’t tax bonus he pays the IRS a flat tax

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

US / Canada tax treaty eliminates double taxation. Revenue Canada’s definition of Canadian residence is 6-months + 1-day (183-days).

Surpass 183 days on CDN soil during the calendar year, obliged to pay full CDN taxes - for athletes only pay CDN taxes for the amount of time spent on Cdn soil.

1-day is defined as a full 24-hr period in Canada, US allows room for maneuverability. With US travel schedule for players during a season + off season time spent outside of Canada allows for IRS time building.

Zero state tax locales like Fla (where Huberdeau & PLD call home) do not tax any income (incl bonus, retirement etc.)

IRS does not view bonus as income whereas Revenue Canada does

Auston Matthews present contract:
Year 1: $15.2 million signing bonus, $700,000 salary
Year 2: $15.2 million signing bonus, $700,000 salary
Year 3: $9.7 million signing bonus, $750,000 salary
Year 4: $7.2 million signing bonus, $750,000 salary
Year 5: $7.2 million signing bonus, $750,000 salary

Matthews’ does not get taxed on all his signing bonus money, only his salary for CDN tax purposes.

Since his offseason US residence is Az, who don’t tax bonus he pays the IRS a flat tax

Hey thanks for the information. How does playying in the US count? Considering they play about 30 games in the US a year, does that deduct from the 183 days?

Also the latest discussion is Dach for PLD What a joke these pundits are trying real hard to find something to talk about.

 

[Destopcorner]

i don't buy that. have not met a young player that takes a pay cut. ever

I think he just did by accepting the qualifying offer while everyone knows he's worth more.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Couldn't we say the same about you claiming that the Habs will be used as a pawn?

No because if he reaches free agency, the Habs will be used as a pawn in negotiations unless he tells everyone that’s not Montreal he’s not talking to them or interested which isn’t going to happen. We already technically were used as one as his comments will have other teams thinking he wants to come to Montreal which will drive up the price for any team interested if they want to sign him long term. The poster I was quoting was speculating on things only an agent and client could know behind closed doors and giving absolutes about what his strategy will be. If he had said it in a way better structured around that was opinion on what he thinks their going to do, I wouldn’t have responded at all.

 

[waitin425]

This might be one of the craziest threads in Hfboards history. We are now doing a deep dive into tax rates, tax treaties, etc. Fascinating yet enlightening.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

No because if he reaches free agency, the Habs will be used as a pawn in negotiations unless he tells everyone that’s not Montreal he’s not talking to them or interested which isn’t going to happen. We already technically were used as one as his comments will have other teams thinking he wants to come to Montreal which will drive up the price for any team interested if they want to sign him long term. The poster I was quoting was speculating on things only an agent and client could know behind closed doors and giving absolutes about what his strategy will be. If he had said it in a way better structured around that was opinion on what he thinks their going to do, I wouldn’t have responded at all.

You said no and then proceeded to use the rest of your post to pretty much state an entire scenario you just made up in your head.

Another thing - in what world have everything we read about Dubois' desire to be in Montreal does anything to help him or the Jets? How does Pat Brisson coming out and proclaiming at the draft that Dubois wants to play for Montreal help drive up interest from other teams? It makes no sense. They'd be better off just not saying anything at all and negotiating with everyone. They don't need to do this to drive up interest. Like, at all.

The amount of head in the sand posts that we read in this thread is incredible. Just say you don't want the player. It's okay.