Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[SwiftyHab]

 

[SwiftyHab]

Definetly sounds like he’s at least leaving. And the injured hip could help explain his performance

 

[nhlfan9191]

If we are making a play for PLD, Dvorak will be gone by July 1st. Probably part of the PLD deal or potentially somewhere else to just make room.

I imagine if push came to shove, Dvorak would likely be flexible if we needed to move him as long as we aren’t sending him to a stinker of a destination which let’s face it, Winnipeg is that. That’s if he isn’t moved before that clause kicks in. He’s still a useful player.

 

[SwiftyHab]

So based on the exit interviews, Winnipeg is imploding. Here’s what we know:

After game 5, Coach calls out the whole team as having no pushback and that he’s disgusted with them and has been since February.

Players then (see link below) Came out and said that they didn’t appreciate what he said and don’t beleive he’s right. Add that to last year when their former coach paul Maurice just left and says he lost the room and it’s pretty clear that the players are in charge and really don’t care about the coach. In sports that’s just a toxic environment.



In the same interview above, the players, recognizing that management doesn’t think this team can win anything, are openly talking about playing on other teams and not wanting anything to do with a rebuild which is clearly the view that management is beginning to have.

A few other pieces to this story.

After the players spoke to the media, having heard what they said, the coach Told reporters to stay cause he wants to speak again and then he walked back his comments about how they all sucked balls.

Also, Winnipeg is very gate-driven so the owners are concerned that they’ll lose a lot of their revenue if they try for a rebuild which may temper what they do.

That being said, the core of the team are all UFAs after next season which means technically they can go for it one more time. so if they don’t start their rebuild this summer (which I really think they will), then the only chance they’ll have to get any resources back to help speed up the rebuild is at at the TDL of this season if they try and fail one more time.

I personally don’t see the point of that with this team but what do I know.

All said, I think the rebuild is starting now and PLD is ours before July 1

 

[Captain97]

87th in the NHL in points. 4th on his team (which was a playoff bubble team). Realistically probably the 5th best player because of Ehlers (although debatable). I think middle-of-the-road is a perfect way to describe PLD. Personally, I prefer Danault, who would have cost way less to sign.

But let's agree to disagree. I just totally think it is very normal that some people are not dropping their pants to get PLD - he's not some sort of super stud hockey megastar. He's an average top-6 forward.

87th in points would make him a 1st line player? How is that middle of the pack?

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

The Winnipeg Sun have posted their "grades" for each players playoff performance.

Dubois did not fare well.

PIERRE LUC DUBOIS / D

Dubois was one of the poster boys for the Jets’ struggles at even strength. He was on the ice for four Winnipeg goals at 5-on-5 and nine against. He was absolutely invisible in Game 5, when the Jets needed him most, appearing to be more interested in where he’ll be playing next year than what he needed to do on that night. He did play well in Games 1 and 3, had two goals and two assists in the series, and generated 23 shot attempts, fourth most on the team. He also took four minor penalties, including two in overtime in Game 3. When Rick Bowness talked about the Golden Knights’ best players being better than the Jets best players in this series, Dubois would be front and centre in his mind.

Sure but I mean they've always expected too much from him because they overpaid to get him. He's just not a difference maker type player. He's a depth player. He's similar to Tomas Tatar in terms of impact.

 

[Habby4Life]

It really depends on what Hughes might offer for him. Dubois is still a very good player as long as the price is right.

They don't need a locker room cancer or a guy that quits when the going gets tough. Some many red flags with this guy.

 

[JHabs]

So based on the exit interviews, Winnipeg is imploding. Here’s what we know:

After game 5, Coach calls out the whole team as having no pushback and that he’s disgusted with them and has been since February.

Players then (see link below) Came out and said that they didn’t appreciate what he said and don’t beleive he’s right. Add that to last year when their former coach paul Maurice just left and says he lost the room and it’s pretty clear that the players are in charge and really don’t care about the coach. In sports that’s just a toxic environment.



In the same interview above, the players, recognizing that management doesn’t think this team can win anything, are openly talking about playing on other teams and not wanting anything to do with a rebuild which is clearly the view that management is beginning to have.

A few other pieces to this story.

After the players spoke to the media, having heard what they said, the coach Told reporters to stay cause he wants to speak again and then he walked back his comments about how they all sucked balls.

Also, Winnipeg is very gate-driven so the owners are concerned that they’ll lose a lot of their revenue if they try for a rebuild which may temper what they do.

That being said, the core of the team are all UFAs after next season which means technically they can go for it one more time. so if they don’t start their rebuild this summer (which I really think they will), then the only chance they’ll have to get any resources back to help speed up the rebuild is at at the TDL of this season if they try and fail one more time.

I personally don’t see the point of that with this team but what do I know.

All said, I think the rebuild is starting now and PLD is ours before July 1

It's a clear line in the sand.

Players don't want a rebuild

Management likely needs a retool

Ownership won't tolerate a rebuild longer than 2 years

I think they trade some of their core pieces for young 20 somethings who are almost at their prime.

Problem is those assets are expensive, and the way their players are talking, they aren't giving the franchise much leverage. PLD is arguably their strongest trade chip, and their hands are zip tied - even if a team is willing to take him for 1 year, it will be a fraction of what they could have got had PLD situation been different.

I think if by December you're too far out from playoffs, you start shipping out Wheeler, Hellebuck, etc... and pull a NYR "Mea culpa" letter to the fans.

 

[Sterling Archer]

So based on the exit interviews, Winnipeg is imploding. Here’s what we know:

After game 5, Coach calls out the whole team as having no pushback and that he’s disgusted with them and has been since February.

Players then (see link below) Came out and said that they didn’t appreciate what he said and don’t beleive he’s right. Add that to last year when their former coach paul Maurice just left and says he lost the room and it’s pretty clear that the players are in charge and really don’t care about the coach. In sports that’s just a toxic environment.



In the same interview above, the players, recognizing that management doesn’t think this team can win anything, are openly talking about playing on other teams and not wanting anything to do with a rebuild which is clearly the view that management is beginning to have.

A few other pieces to this story.

After the players spoke to the media, having heard what they said, the coach Told reporters to stay cause he wants to speak again and then he walked back his comments about how they all sucked balls.

Also, Winnipeg is very gate-driven so the owners are concerned that they’ll lose a lot of their revenue if they try for a rebuild which may temper what they do.

That being said, the core of the team are all UFAs after next season which means technically they can go for it one more time. so if they don’t start their rebuild this summer (which I really think they will), then the only chance they’ll have to get any resources back to help speed up the rebuild is at at the TDL of this season if they try and fail one more time.

I personally don’t see the point of that with this team but what do I know.

All said, I think the rebuild is starting now and PLD is ours before July 1

It’s pretty obvious to anyone paying attention the Jets are a clusterf***. Saying PLD is a primadonna or a cancer obviously has zero knowledge about what’s going on with this team. There’s a reason that even with a stacked roster, and one of the best goaltenders, they just can’t get their shit together. Has toxic vibes written all over it and this latest meltdown just puts a big neon sign around all the disfunction, but PLD must be the problem. Give me a break.

 

[SwiftyHab]

It’s pretty obvious to anyone paying attention the Jets are a clusterf***. Saying PLD is a primadonna or a cancer obviously has zero knowledge about what’s going on with this team. There’s a reason that even with a stacked roster, and one of the best goaltenders, they just can’t get their shit together. Has toxic vibes written all over it and this latest meltdown just puts a big neon sign around all the disfunction, but PLD must be the problem. Give me a break.

Who said PLD was the problem? Pretty clear they were toxic last year when their coach just got up and said F’it! I’m out!

 

[OnTheRun]

Sure but I mean they've always expected too much from him because they overpaid to get him. He's just not a difference maker type player. He's a depth player. He's similar to Tomas Tatar in terms of impact.

He's just an easy target because everyone knows about his current situation, that's the most previsible thing ever. Him becoming a lightning rod and the Jets are a whole soiling the bed is good. It weaken Chevy's position and force him to do something at the same time, it's the blueprint of a guy about to get shortchanged.

It’s pretty obvious to anyone paying attention the Jets are a clusterf***. Saying PLD is a primadonna or a cancer obviously has zero knowledge about what’s going on with this team. There’s a reason that even with a stacked roster, and one of the best goaltenders, they just can’t get their shit together. Has toxic vibes written all over it and this latest meltdown just puts a big neon sign around all the disfunction, but PLD must be the problem. Give me a break.

Jets have been a clusterf*** since E. Kanes days, once in a while they point finger and get a scapegoat out of town, but nothing change over there.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Sure but I mean they've always expected too much from him because they overpaid to get him. He's just not a difference maker type player. He's a depth player. He's similar to Tomas Tatar in terms of impact.

If Dubois is a depth player, then Suzuki is a depth player.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

If Dubois is a depth player, then Suzuki is a depth player.

I agree. Ideally Suzuki is a second-line center. And PLD probably will end up being a second-line LW I would imagine.

 

[morhilane]

I'm going to guess he's going to need surgery if it bothered him for most of the season...and he's damage good now.

 

[JohnTheBaptist]

Heartless... Not involved...

Reading the Winnipeg media today, I'm not even sure I want Dubois for "free" as a UFA right now in July 2024.

Is that the kind of player you break the bank and give 7 y for 8 millions+???

Let's see what he does next year.


He also asked to be traded in junior, by the way.

Not his first rodeo. Red flags everywhere.

Sounds like the perfect new hometown whipping boy / ChouChou. Bring him on, Marty will light a fire under his arse. I don't want him playing center though.

Dubois - Suzuki - Caufield
Slafkovsky - Dach - Anderson

 

[Spring in Fialta]

It’s pretty obvious to anyone paying attention the Jets are a clusterf***. Saying PLD is a primadonna or a cancer obviously has zero knowledge about what’s going on with this team. There’s a reason that even with a stacked roster, and one of the best goaltenders, they just can’t get their shit together. Has toxic vibes written all over it and this latest meltdown just puts a big neon sign around all the disfunction, but PLD must be the problem. Give me a break.

I want PLD, mostly because I think a lot of the diva stuff is pretty much solely related to him wanting to play here, but him getting pissed because Columbus ensured that they could match an offer sheet from Montreal is pretty f***ed-up on his end. Like, how are you going to be pissed that the team who drafted you 3rd overall don't want to lose you to an offersheet and try to ensure it not happening?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Sure but I mean they've always expected too much from him because they overpaid to get him. He's just not a difference maker type player. He's a depth player. He's similar to Tomas Tatar in terms of impact.

Stevie Wonder agrees with this.

 

[yianik]

We should ask ourselves 3 questions.

1. Should we want a 25 year old 6 foot 3 200 plus pound centre who can score about 25 goals and 60-65 points , who might be available? Well I think yes.

2 S hould we call the Jets and ask what they want for PLD ? I think we should.

3. Depending on the demand by the Jets should we decide on pursuing him now, or to wait ? Well I think that makes sense.

It's all we have to do guys. Now for those who don't want PLD under any circumstances I guess it's a waste of time, but I think its time well spent.

 

[Destopcorner]

I agree. Ideally Suzuki is a second-line center. And PLD probably will end up being a second-line LW I would imagine.

Suzuki point total without his best winger for half the season makes him the best second center of the league. Would argue he'd be very close to PPG with Caufield all year.

What is your plan to find someone better? Draft him?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I agree. Ideally Suzuki is a second-line center. And PLD probably will end up being a second-line LW I would imagine.

On what planet are second-line centers depth players?

 

[MadMslm]

It’s pretty obvious to anyone paying attention the Jets are a clusterf***. Saying PLD is a primadonna or a cancer obviously has zero knowledge about what’s going on with this team. There’s a reason that even with a stacked roster, and one of the best goaltenders, they just can’t get their shit together. Has toxic vibes written all over it and this latest meltdown just puts a big neon sign around all the disfunction, but PLD must be the problem. Give me a break.

Nobody said Dubois is the problem, but he’s definitely part of that equation.

The situation in Winnipeg was bad before he got there and that team would have imploded either ways.

His effort level in game 5 was disgusting. That shift after the Knights scored was as bad if not worse than his famous shift in Columbus.

Maybe his head is elsewhere, but you can’t pick and choose when you care. That’s a serious character flaw that he showed in Columbus and Winnipeg (and some would say in junior) which has to be a concerning factor.

What happens when things aren’t going his way in Montreal ? Will he do the same thing he did twice already in his career ?

People are quick to find excuses for him blaming small markets, team composition or coaching staff. It’s crazy how all those guys who have been in this game for 20+ years are all wrong and bad at their jobs, but Dubois is innocent of any wrong doing.

You can be a great human being and still carry a lot of flaws with you, Dubois surely has character flaws that should alarm anyone who wants to acquire him. Showing accountability is not something many can do.

This comes from someone who is In favour of acquiring him (at the right price), I just find it crazy how we can absolve some people from everything without factoring in that there’s a risk to this situation.

 

[ZUKI]

Just to be clear, are you saying that players don't ever tune out their coaches? It's huge mystery to many as to how Torts keeps getting hired. The only success he had was a Cup win with a truly stacked Tampa team. Otherwise, it's been years of mediocrity and firings. The only GMs who hire him are the ones who think a hard ass coach is what the team needs and ends in spectacular failure every tiime. Some/most players in this generation do not respond well to being berated and yelled at all the time. We literally see this all the time and has caused a shift to a new era of coaching techniques and the old school bully coaches to be pushed out.

Sorry but just too much wrong in this post to accuratly commment. He "quit" on his team doesn't take into consideration what was going on in the background. He requested and was told he'd be traded. When he wasn't, dogging it was the only way he could send a message that he didn't want to be there and was miserable. Hardly the first time a player has done this.

Moving from one toxic team where the player he was traded for, Laine, also asked for a trade out of his team didn't help matters and led to much of the same. Laine hated Jets because of the abuse he endured from Wheeler and Scheifele. Trouba couldn't wait to get out, Chiarot was offered more money to stay in Winnipeg and rejected their offer outright, Stanley has asked to be traded, Scheifele said he doesn't know if he sees himself there long term and Evander Kane before them. When you have that many players asking to be moved publically, isn't that a bigger sign of a bad environment than on the players? I think so.

You can call him names all you want, but you don't know what is going on or how many times he's been dicked around. By several accounts he had expected to be moved on several occasions and non ever materialized yet he's still never publically asked for a trade and was 4th in scoring while playing injured. I don't see how you get to him being a drama queen but hey, everyones got an opion.

All Habs fans should read this.

Thanks to share this structured thoughts, based on facts, instead of the over-reacting drama narratives from the usual same members of this forum. Omitting the history of Tortorella and the claim of the toxic atmosphere in Winnipeg, in the purpose of blaming PLD ... LOL !

 

[Michoulicious]

All Habs fans should read this.

Thanks to share this structured thoughts, based on facts, instead of the over-reacting drama narratives from the usual same members of this forum. Omitting the history of Tortorella and the claim of the toxic atmosphere in Winnipeg, in the purpose of blaming PLD ... LOL !

He also asked to be traded in junior.

Let's not forget that. 3 times in 7 years.

 

[OnTheRun]

Nobody said Dubois is the problem, but he’s definitely part of that equation.

The situation in Winnipeg was bad before he got there and that team would have imploded either ways.

His effort level in game 5 was disgusting. That shift after the Knights scored was as bad if not worse than his famous shift in Columbus.

Maybe his head is elsewhere, but you can’t pick and choose when you care. That’s a serious character flaw that he showed in Columbus and Winnipeg (and some would say in junior) which has to be a concerning factor.

What happens when things aren’t going his way in Montreal ? Will he do the same thing he did twice already in his career ?

People are quick to find excuses for him blaming small markets, team composition or coaching staff. It’s crazy how all those guys who have been in this game for 20+ years are all wrong and bad at their jobs, but Dubois is innocent of any wrong doing.

You can be a great human being and still carry a lot of flaws with you, Dubois surely has character flaws that should alarm anyone who wants to acquire him. Showing accountability is not something many can do.

This comes from someone who is In favour of acquiring him (at the right price), I just find it crazy how we can absolve some people from everything without factoring in that there’s a risk to this situation.

If you decide to keeps guy(s) who don't want to play for you, you don't get to act surprised when they don't run through walls for you.
Ultimately, what is going on here is Chevy overextended his hand and lost. Granted it wasn't an easy situation for him, but it is his job to handle it... and he didn't, he opted to ignore the elephant in the room instead and that's the result.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Yeah, zero sympathy from me either regarding Dubois not wanting to stay in Winnipeg. They had to know he wanted Montreal before they traded for him.