Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[Captain Mountain]

It was an example from Friendman. Never said Dach was ever on the table.

It wasn't even an example, he straight up said that he thinks that if it were that simple, it would be done already. It sounds like Dach isn't and hasn't been on the table.

 

[rahad]

Do you guys really want to pay 8m and + for him? He barely had any impact in the last 2 playoffs.

I would not pay him more than Nick Suzuki. We will see what Winnipeg ask for PLD. But, if they start to ask to much, is better to wait for next summer.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Patrik Laine - 8.7m
Dylan Larkin - 8.7m
Filip Forsberg - 8.5m
Mikhail Sergachev - 8.5m
Bo Horvat - 8.5m
Roope Hintz - 8.45m
Miro Heiskanen - 8.45m
Tim Stutzle - 8.35m
Brady Tkachuk - 8.2m
Tomas Hertl - 8.1m
Jordan Kyrou - 8.1m
Robert Thomas - 8.1m
Jack Hughes - 8m
JT Miller - 8m

That's a list of players in the 8-9m range that signed deals within the last couple years. How many of them are top 10 players? The going rate for a top 10 player isn't 8-9m anymore, it's 11+. Ideally Dubois would come in around 8m just above Suzuki. Hopefully no more than 8.5, beyond that it starts to get pretty dicey imo and probably not worth it

PLD shouldn't be on a list with most of those players as comparables. I would rank him slightly below most of them so a salary under 8. Anything more and just say no, especially if you have to pay assets for the privilege.

 

[Michoulicious]

Heartless... Not involved...

Reading the Winnipeg media today, I'm not even sure I want Dubois for "free" as a UFA right now in July 2024.

Is that the kind of player you break the bank and give 7 y for 8 millions+???

Let's see what he does next year.

Absolutely, I do not understand the panic around his attitude. Habs management definitely know what was behind his CBJ and WPG issues. Hughes has a lot of connections and people in the business know all those stories. They would not be interested in him, if he was just another Celine Dion.

He also asked to be traded in junior, by the way.

Not his first rodeo. Red flags everywhere.

 

[ottawa]

Do you guys really want to pay 8m et + him? He barely had any impact in the last 2 playoffs.

I would not pay him more than Nick Suzuki. We will see what Winnipeg ask for PLD. But, if they start to ask to much, is better to wait for next summer.

Complimentary players aren't ideal but they're okay.

Habs don't absolutely need impact players with guys like Caufield and Suzuki already in the lineup. Dach is projecting to be an impact player too so we'll see how that goes.

Bring on PLD but not for 8m+

 

[MtlSars]

Do you guys really want to pay 8m et + him? He barely had any impact in the last 2 playoffs.

I would not pay him more than Nick Suzuki. We will see what Winnipeg ask for PLD. But, if they start to ask to much, is better to wait for next summer.

I mean... neither did most of his team to be fair.

That's his career playoffs stats, not exactly awful for a 24 year old.

If the cap is going up, we already have Suzuki, Caufield, Dach locked in for the future.

Regardless of Slaf's progression or our other prospects coming in to fill a spot.......yeah i kinda do?

Get him from 25 to 32/33. He can play LW for all I care moving forward and take the odd faceoff when our C gets chased off or play C when/*if injuries...


Assuming Caufield gets 8x8 ish, thats 4 players out of our top 6 for 27m.

It's actually pretty good in a 82.5 cap, and projects to be amazing in the increased cap years ahead(100m)

 

[JT3]

PLD shouldn't be on a list with most of those players as comparables. I would rank him slightly below most of them so a salary under 8. Anything more and just say no, especially if you have to pay assets for the privilege.

You have to take into context some of those deals of course, but yeah ideally he would fall on the low end of that if he breaks into the 8's at all. I was more-so just trying to show that 8 million wouldn't sniff close to a top 10 player. 8m is like the new 6m for a high end 2nd liner.

 

[rahad]

I mean... neither did most of his team to be fair.
View attachment 698639

That's his career playoffs stats, not exactly awful for a 24 year old.

If the cap is going up, we already have Suzuki, Caufield, Dach locked in for the future.

Regardless of Slaf's progression or our other prospects coming in to fill a spot.......yeah i kinda do?

Get him from 25 to 32/33. He can play LW for all I care moving forward and take the odd faceoff when our C gets chased off or play C when/*if injuries...


Assuming Caufield gets 8x8 ish, thats 4 players out of our top 6 for 27m.

It's actually pretty good in a 82.5 cap, and projects to be amazing in the increased cap years ahead(100m)

I have no problem paying him the same salary as Suzuki. My main problem is if he ask more (like 8.5 or 9m+). 8m x 7y is perfect for me.

 

[Rapala]

Is Barron only brought up because they have his brother?

I have no idea. Just like we have absolutely no idea what is in Winnipeg's future.

 

[The Great Weal]

Patrik Laine - 8.7m
Dylan Larkin - 8.7m
Filip Forsberg - 8.5m
Mikhail Sergachev - 8.5m
Bo Horvat - 8.5m
Roope Hintz - 8.45m
Miro Heiskanen - 8.45m
Tim Stutzle - 8.35m
Brady Tkachuk - 8.2m
Tomas Hertl - 8.1m
Jordan Kyrou - 8.1m
Robert Thomas - 8.1m
Jack Hughes - 8m
JT Miller - 8m

That's a list of players in the 8-9m range that signed deals within the last couple years. How many of them are top 10 players? The going rate for a top 10 player isn't 8-9m anymore, it's 11+. Ideally Dubois would come in around 8m just above Suzuki. Hopefully no more than 8.5, beyond that it starts to get pretty dicey imo and probably not worth it

So like I said, no team has three 8+ million forwards that aren't top 10 in their position. This will be especially hard when you factor in that Slaf and Dach will need big contracts too.

 

[nhlfan9191]

It wasn't even an example, he straight up said that he thinks that if it were that simple, it would be done already. It sounds like Dach isn't and hasn't been on the table.

Why would Dach be on the table? We hang up the phone if they even offer a proposal like that. It’s insulting.

FYI HFboards, fix the ads. They’re destroying this site right now and making it unusable.

 

[salbutera]

So like I said, no team has three 8+ million forwards that aren't top 10 in their position. This will be especially hard when you factor in that Slaf and Dach will need big contracts too.

Dach has 3-seasons left in that time Dvorak, Armia, Hoffman, Savard & Matheson’s contracts all expire, Gallagher if not on LTIR will have 1-year left on his deal & additionally the cap ceiling in 3-years will be $15M-$20M higher …

 

[No More Subban]

I think people do tend to overrate PLD for sure, but I don't see it, guy has 3 60+ point seasons at 24, Drouin has 0 at 28. PLD also plays a more useful type of game and is a C. Yeah he might not always play the PF type game but he's still a big physical type forward, while Drouin is all skills and nothing else. I really don't see this thing going the same way and I also think this current management, coaching staff and leadership group is better equipped for this type of risk. We've seen players come in the right places and start performing, showing the character and consistency they hadn't previously shown, just look at Dach this year. If they bring PLD aboard, I'll trust that HuGo know what they're doing.

If Dubois can play the same way Monahan did, then sure. Ngl, Dach-Dubois would be nice!

But which prospect can we afford to lose? I think the Florida pick is definitely off the table.

 

[Sorinth]

So like I said, no team has three 8+ million forwards that aren't top 10 in their position. This will be especially hard when you factor in that Slaf and Dach will need big contracts too.

First off it really doesn't matter what other teams are doing, you want to be the one to establish the next cup winning blueprint because following someone else's rarely works.

Second Caufield is arguably already top-10 in his position so we wouldn't even have 3 guys at 8m who aren't top-10. For reference in terms of ppg the 10th most productive LW is at 1.03 and RW is 0.89 (From nhl.com which I know is iffy on positions). And honestly I wouldn't bet against Dubois having that level of production if he spends a full year playing wing alongside Caufield and Suzuki.

 

[JT3]

So like I said, no team has three 8+ million forwards that aren't top 10 in their position. This will be especially hard when you factor in that Slaf and Dach will need big contracts too.

Well to be fair your original post said top 10 players in the league, not top 10 in their position. And even so, I found 3 where you could argue the case

Ottawa - Norris, Stutzle, Tkachuk
Nashville - Johansen, Duchene, Forsberg
Dallas - Seguin, Benn, Hintz

Besides, the reason we would have 3 forwards at 8m is because they would all have signed deals within the last year/year and a half right before the cap is about to spike and we will presumably have them for 7 or 8 years straight through their prime. I don't think it's an issue.

 

[habsfan891]

Marek - PLD has interest in playing for other teams than Montreal, but we all say/heard what transpired at the draft.

Friedman - I heard a team was willing to trade for PLD last year and take him on for 2 years, even if he wants to go to Montreal. - Also said teams are still looking at him as a 1 year rental

Friedman - If the Jets ask for Dach, if the deal was thar simple it would be done already.

Winnipeg is going to do the best deal they can for PLD.

If the Jets are asking for Dach plus lo f***ing l

 

[Shawnathon]

I wonder if it’s because he’s not a centre. I think he’s flawed inside his own blue line. He’s be a might fine power winger.

although you might be right, I think you’ll be disappointed.

Disappointed how? The risk on Dubois is nuts. It feels like fans want this to be our Tavares moment but Dubois isn’t I Tavares and even then that situation messed up the Leafs cap and his production to match the contract has been disappointing for them. And this guy has head issues. We’ll be making a mistake.

 

[BLONG7]

Bring the kid home
I'd gladly throw the 2023 1st Floride Pick in Winnipeg's direction + to get him this year

What if Chevy asks for our top 1st round pick if it's at 6 or 7 ?
I wouldn't but some may..............

 

[Canadiens98]

I don't see any point in bringing Dubois in unless we first trade Josh Anderson or Gallagher and I can't see anyone making a play on the latter.

 

[BLONG7]

Heartless... Not involved...

Reading the Winnipeg media today, I'm not even sure I want Dubois for "free" as a UFA right now in July 2024.

Is that the kind of player you break the bank and give 7 y for 8 millions+???

Let's see what he does next year.


He also asked to be traded in junior, by the way.

Not his first rodeo. Red flags everywhere.

All great points......that said, the media in Montreal says he has been focused since day 1 to be in Montreal.............

I don't see any point in bringing Dubois in unless we first trade Josh Anderson or Gallagher and I can't see anyone making a play on the latter.

Gallagher will end up on LTIR in the next season or two. He will get injured again....he just will.
Anderson has a ton of trade value....

 

[The Great Weal]

Well to be fair your original post said top 10 players in the league, not top 10 in their position. And even so, I found 3 where you could argue the case

Ottawa - Norris, Stutzle, Tkachuk
Nashville - Johansen, Duchene, Forsberg
Dallas - Seguin, Benn, Hintz

Besides, the reason we would have 3 forwards at 8m is because they would all have signed deals within the last year/year and a half right before the cap is about to spike and we will presumably have them for 7 or 8 years straight through their prime. I don't think it's an issue.

I misspoke but your first post didn't address either point, it was just a list of players and contracts. This is the only post where you bring up 3 forwards on the same team making at least 8 million.

Let's take a deeper dive for each of these three teams:

Ottawa: Stutzle scored 90 points and Tkachuk was PPG. None of Suzuki/CC/PLD were PPG. Hell none of them have even hit the 70 point mark. So not really comparable.

Nashville: These three fall more in line with the production of Suzuki/CC/PLD but do you actually look at those 3 contracts (especially the Duchene and RyJo ones) and think that it was a smart decision by them and that we should copy that idea? They have been a middle-of-the-pack team thanks to Roman Josi because they would be bottom 10 otherwise.

Dallas: You can even add Robertson too. I'm not even going to compare Hintz/Robertson to Suzuki/CC/PLD because the former two are actual stars. Seguin has one of the worst contracts in the league and Benn did too before his bounce-back year.

Basically, it boils down to the teams that do have a minimum of 3 forwards making at least 8 million having at least two stars among those 3 players, or that the contracts are awful and it's hurting their team. If two of Suzuki/CC/PLD end up scoring at a PPG level then it will work out, but if all three maintain a 60-70 point range then it wouldn't be good.

 

[Bouboumaster]

What if Chevy asks for our top 1st round pick if it's at 6 or 7 ?
I wouldn't but some may..............

2023 1st Montréal is pretty Much an untouchable asset

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

What if Chevy asks for our top 1st round pick if it's at 6 or 7 ?
I wouldn't but some may..............

No they wouldn't. Let's put up a poll and I guarantee it wouldn't get more than 3 troll votes. If anything, just wait a year and pay an extra 1-2 mil in ufa

 

[dinodebino]

Disappointed how? The risk on Dubois is nuts. It feels like fans want this to be our Tavares moment but Dubois isn’t I Tavares and even then that situation messed up the Leafs cap and his production to match the contract has been disappointing for them. And this guy has head issues. We’ll be making a mistake.

I think it's a done deal for Montreal, unless Timmah does his best Draft 2022 imitation and asks for some extra poutine sauce on his fries after all is negociated. (I know, some of you don't buy the rumours, but I can tell you from someone close to the media action that it was more than a rumour).

From all serious accounts (not counting the Mareks of this world), AKA, the Winnipeg beat writers who have reported on it, it's Montreal this summer, unless Timmah gets hungry. I am guessing more gossip is going to come out over the next weeks, since the Jets crashed and burned and Dubois looked a bit like a dunce yesterday. There is going to be some backstabbing and it will be fun to follow. Never saw a coach go bezerk like a usually soft spoken Rick Bowness did yesterday. I mean, you got eliminated pretty easily, but usually, you usually are a tad more reserved for the final game press conference. He lambasted the vets, including Dubois.

Like I said, you might be right about the mistake. I don't know the guy personally, so I can't say if he's a flake or not. I think you'll be disappointed because it's going to happen.

 

[HuGo Sham]

I think it's a done deal for Montreal, unless Timmah does his best Draft 2022 imitation and asks for some extra poutine sauce on his fries after all is negociated. (I know, some of you don't buy the rumours, but I can tell you from someone close to the media action that it was more than a rumour).

From all serious accounts (not counting the Mareks of this world), AKA, the Winnipeg beat writers who have reported on it, it's Montreal this summer, unless Timmah gets hungry. I am guessing more gossip is going to come out over the next weeks, since the Jets crashed and burned and Dubois looked a bit like a dunce yesterday. There is going to be some backstabbing and it will be fun to follow. Never saw a coach go bezerk like a usually soft spoken Rick Bowness did yesterday. I mean, you got eliminated pretty easily, but usually, you usually are a tad more reserved for the final game press conference. He lambasted the vets, including Dubois.

Like I said, you might be right about the mistake. I don't know the guy personally, so I can't say if he's a flake or not. I think you'll be disappointed because it's going to happen.

thx for the update man. I've become indifferent to this trade if it happens. PLD looked lost last night. If these rumours are in fact true, and I'm not convinced personally - let's hope MSL can get the best out of this kid like he did when he was working in player development with Columbus (and dubois loved him)