Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[SwiftyHab]

No, we need to pick a prospect with #17 not trade it away..

Disagree with you on this one if we can get PLD but definetly agree that we need 17 either way

Bruins tie it up 3-3

 

[River Meadow]

Disagree with you on this one if we can get PLD but definetly agree that we need 17 either way

Bruins tie it up 3-3

We need to rebuild not retool, IMO.

This draft is deep.

We don't need to add a player at 7-8 million a year player to continue to be mediocre.

But let's agree to disagree.

 

[Vachon23]

You have to draft franchise players. They are very rarely available as free agents or trade.

I mean look at the Bruins. They completely lucked out drafting Pastrnak at the end of the 1st. But the rest of the team is just a bunch of 50 point players, and they broke the points record. I don’t think trading for PLD prevents the Habs from getting a PPG player.

Imagine, they could have Barzal, Chabot and Connor if they didn’t fu** up in the 2015 draft

 

[Destopcorner]

I've watched him play maybe 10 times, usually in the playoffs, and he has never looked very good to me. Like he's ok, but he doesn't really do very much. I don't see him as an impact player or a player who can drive offense on a line. But these things are always a bit subjective.

But I mean, it's not like he's one of the top players in the league. He's pretty middle-of-the-road. It would be sort of more weird if everyone did want him. It's pretty understandable that not everyone on this board is excited to acquire PLD.

Middle of the road is not a appropriate word for a 24yo physical 60 points center....

Honestly, you think many teams would say no to having PLD on their roster? Serious question. Not talking about cap situation, just the player and what he brings.

I bet every team would take him as 2nd C/top 6 winger. But since he wants to play here, let's deny him and hope for a generational player to fall on our lap.

 

[Mudz]

Let's not sign PLD so we can be worse and maybe get lucky and get a ... 3OV.

 

[JT3]

I've watched him play maybe 10 times, usually in the playoffs, and he has never looked very good to me. Like he's ok, but he doesn't really do very much. I don't see him as an impact player or a player who can drive offense on a line. But these things are always a bit subjective.

But I mean, it's not like he's one of the top players in the league. He's pretty middle-of-the-road. It would be sort of more weird if everyone did want him. It's pretty understandable that not everyone on this board is excited to acquire PLD.

If you wanna define a 6'3 215lb, 65 points PWF C as middle of the road then we will just have to agree to disagree, because that's pretty much the best C we've had in the last 15 years. Are we just only interested in top players of the league now? Like if they aren't PPG+ then just miss me with that? As if beggars like us can really be choosers lol

 

[ReHabs]

I've never seen any proposals where it is all that much of a bargain. I guess that's where we're seeing different. If I thought the contract he'd sign for would be a really good team-friendly deal, and the trade to get him would be less than fair market value, then yes I would agree. Sign me up. I just don't see that happening. Most trade proposals and contract terms I see seem like the Habs wouldn't be getting any discount at all. Which is why I'm in no rush.

I hope you have the same high standards and expectations when it comes to our own players.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Middle of the road is not a appropriate word for a 24yo physical 60 points center....

Honestly, you think many teams would say no to having PLD on their roster? Serious question. Not talking about cap situation, just the player and what he brings.

I bet every team would take him as 2nd C/top 6 winger. But since he wants to play here, let's deny him and hope for a generational player to fall on our lap.

If you wanna define a 6'3 215lb, 65 points PWF C as middle of the road then we will just have to agree to disagree, because that's pretty much the best C we've had in the last 15 years. Are we just only interested in top players of the league now? Like if they aren't PPG+ then just miss me with that? As if beggars like us can really be choosers lol

87th in the NHL in points. 4th on his team (which was a playoff bubble team). Realistically probably the 5th best player because of Ehlers (although debatable). I think middle-of-the-road is a perfect way to describe PLD. Personally, I prefer Danault, who would have cost way less to sign.

But let's agree to disagree. I just totally think it is very normal that some people are not dropping their pants to get PLD - he's not some sort of super stud hockey megastar. He's an average top-6 forward.

 

[sampollock]

trade for PLD
all you that figure that UFA is the way to go, you would take that chance that other teams now are throwing money at him. it will happen history has proven that.

 

[Destopcorner]

87th in the NHL in points. 4th on his team (which was a playoff bubble team). Realistically probably the 5th best player because of Ehlers (although debatable). I think middle-of-the-road is a perfect way to describe PLD. Personally, I prefer Danault, who would have cost way less to sign.

But let's agree to disagree. I just totally think it is very normal that some people are not dropping their pants to get PLD - he's not some sort of super stud hockey megastar. He's an average top-6 forward.

You didn't answer my question. Do you think any team would say no to this guy as second C ? Which one?

You also forget to mention PLD miss 10 games and put 63 points. Saying he's 4th in points on his team and debating Ehlers is better (lol) prove you just don't like the guy.

So by definition, Suzuki is also a middle of the road center.. right? Only 66 points in 82 games... Man why the hell are we rebuilding around such an average player...

 

[waffledave]

So by definition, Suzuki is also a middle of the road center.. right? Only 66 points in 82 games... Man why the hell are we rebuilding around such an average player...

We probably should explore trading Suzuki. At 23 years old he's not getting any younger and we are trying to rebuild here, rebuild forever. The team won't be good again for 8 to 12 years minimum, at that point even Slafkovsky will be too old.

 

[26Mats]

trade for PLD
all you that figure that UFA is the way to go, you would take that chance that other teams now are throwing money at him. it will happen history has proven that.

Are you ready to give up the 17th pick in this year's draft, if we get it?

My offer is: Mesar, Kidney, Harris, and Engstrom. But I think the want a current good young nhl player. May need to do a 3 team deal.

 

[rik schau]

Let's not sign PLD so we can be worse and maybe get lucky and get a ... 3OV.

Relying on luck is not the right way to improve a team,you know what is though? astute competent player evaluation and assessment, that's what.

 

[sandviper]

Are you ready to give up the 17th pick in this year's draft, if we get it?

My offer is: Mesar, Kidney, Harris, and Engstrom. But I think the want a current good young nhl player. May need to do a 3 team deal.

We need to send salary back; thinking Dvorak or Anderson.

Unless Anderson gets moved somewhere else for another 1st.

 

[FerrisRox]

Middle of the road is not a appropriate word for a 24yo physical 60 points center....

Honestly, you think many teams would say no to having PLD on their roster? Serious question. Not talking about cap situation, just the player and what he brings.

I bet every team would take him as 2nd C/top 6 winger. But since he wants to play here, let's deny him and hope for a generational player to fall on our lap.

This thread has taken a weird turn.

Very few people are saying don't get Dubois at all.

What most people that are opposed to trading for him are saying is lets use our draft pick from Florida to continue to build our prospect pool and then, if Dubois really wants to come to Montreal, lets sign him as a free agent next year.

Suddenly there seems to be this weird contingent of posters who are pretending it's either use the pick or trade it for Dubois and they are just pretending there's not a third option where you use the pick and then still get Dubois.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

You didn't answer my question. Do you think any team would say no to this guy as second C ? Which one?

You also forget to mention PLD miss 10 games and put 63 points. Saying he's 4th in points on his team and debating Ehlers is better (lol) prove you just don't like the guy.

So by definition, Suzuki is also a middle of the road center.. right? Only 66 points in 82 games... Man why the hell are we rebuilding around such an average player...

You seem to have trouble with that fact, but I've been pretty upfront that I don't think super highly of PLD as a player. He's certainly not as good as the other 3 players in front of him in scoring on the Jets, and you obviously don't think highly of Ehlers but I like Ehlers - I've always liked his game.

But I don't really understand getting emotional about it. It's pretty obvious not everyone will think exactly like me, and it's also pretty obvious that PLD is not some phenom that people would be crazy not to want on a team.

And PLD at 8-9 million cap hit as a second-line center? I'm sure there are lots of teams that would pass. But I'm not really here to do a bunch of research about it. Like, I'm not a huge fan of his game - so I'm pretty sure a lot of teams especially those high in the standings would prefer their own guys. Like I said - I prefer Danault as a player - the Kings I would imagine would prefer Danault at 5.5million to PLD at 8.5million. But that's all speculation and I have to make money for the man... so I don't really want to go down that road.

But it's ok we don't think exactly the same. No big deal. You like PLD'S game - you see something I don't. That's fine. I totally understand that happens. There will always be a divergence of opinion.

 

[FerrisRox]

To be fair to you, he technically has never reached 65 pts

To be fair to me, I think he does better here! I honestly do

How did you arrive at the conclusion that coming to a worse team with worse line mates will lead to better results?

 

[Colezuki]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that coming to a worse team with worse line mates will lead to better results?

Depending on the line I'd argue it's similar, if he plays with caufield Id argue it's similar to Connor at the very least

 

[FerrisRox]

So by definition, Suzuki is also a middle of the road center.. right? Only 66 points in 82 games... Man why the hell are we rebuilding around such an average player...

What a silly argument.

Do you really think that Suzuki would only have 66 points if Caufield remained heathy all year?

Do you really think Suzuki would have only 66 points if he got to play with Connor, Ehlers, Wheeler, Morrisey and Scheifele?

You just sound ridiculous here.

Depending on the line I'd argue it's similar, if he plays with caufield Id argue it's similar to Connor at the very least

You think the Canadiens and Jets are "similar?" talent-wise right now?

Wow. Even if they were similar, how on earth does Dubois then get more points here with "similar" players?

Actually, don't answer that. We can agree to disagree on that one, no need to have any further discussion on my end.

 

[waitin425]

Starting any trade offer for Dubois starts with Dvorak.

2 reasons. 1) Because if we get PLD, we now have three solid centres (Suzuki, Dach and PLD) and can afford to trade Dvorak. I'd be fine with Evans as our third line centre. I also feel offering a centre in return softens the blow to the Jets.

2) the second reason is salary. Getting rid of Dvorak's contract will be key.

Obviously only Dvorak is not enough, so the 2nd and/or 3rd pieces would probably have to come from the following assets;

Florida 1st, Barron, Engstrom, Norlinder, Beck, Mesar, RHP

If it is Florida 1st, Barron or Beck, that would probably be my final piece.

Otherwise a combination of say Engstrom + Mesar w/ Dvo or RHP + Dvo + Norlinder.

That is how I see this shaking out.

Personally, I am comfortable with Dvo + Florida pick.

 

[FerrisRox]

Starting any trade offer for Dubois starts with Dvorak.

2 reasons. 1) Because if we get PLD, we now have three solid centres (Suzuki, Dach and PLD) and can afford to trade Dvorak. I'd be fine with Evans as our third line centre. I also feel offering a centre in return softens the blow to the Jets.

2) the second reason is salary. Getting rid of Dvorak's contract will be key.

Obviously only Dvorak is not enough, so the 2nd and/or 3rd pieces would probably have to come from the following assets;

Florida 1st, Barron, Engstrom, Norlinder, Beck, Mesar, RHP

If it is Florida 1st, Barron or Beck, that would probably be my final piece.

Otherwise a combination of say Engstrom + Mesar w/ Dvo or RHP + Dvo + Norlinder.

That is how I see this shaking out.

Personally, I am comfortable with Dvo + Florida pick.

If they trade Barron to get Dubois a year early, I will officially lose faith in this management group.

I can't imagine they would be stupid enough to do this.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

You think the Canadiens and Jets are "similar?" talent-wise right now?

Wow. Even if they were similar, how on earth does Dubois then get more points here with "similar" players?

Actually, don't answer that. We can agree to disagree on that one, no need to have any further discussion on my end.

Matheson was a much better player this year than last season despite going to a much worse team.

There are a lot more factors than just linemates that correlate with production. The role a player has, the ice time they get, their mental state, the team structure, coaching, etc.

One big difference between Columbus/Winnipeg and Montreal is that Dubois might love to play for Montreal, and dislikes playing in Columbus/Winnipeg. How a player mentally feels has a big impact on their performance.

Dubois is also still young (24), so his game isn't done developing. He's coming off his best season in the NHL.

 

[sampollock]

Are you ready to give up the 17th pick in this year's draft, if we get it?

My offer is: Mesar, Kidney, Harris, and Engstrom. But I think the want a current good young nhl player. May need to do a 3 team deal.

YES i would inlcude the 17 pick, if these fans and me want PLD then let's go get him and form top 2 lines for next year.

of course the trade would have to be that habs sign him asap

 

[26Mats]

We need to send salary back; thinking Dvorak or Anderson.

Unless Anderson gets moved somewhere else for another 1st.

I'm thinking the Jets don't want excess salary like Dvo. But they may want Anderson.

But why do we need to ship salary. We have plenty of cap space. I think we'll roughly have 10M in cap space after we resign Cole and the rest of the RFA's.

 

[sampollock]

would be awesome if we could go back and see which one of us was bang on with our prediction on PLD