Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Probably best we don't trade for PLD. Going to cost at least Florida pick. If not more? Which is going to be a good prospect. Then we have to pay him 7 or 8 million next season. Which can be used to acquire another first in '24 draft. If not more?

For one extra season of PLD on contending team, to give up 2 first picks, if not more. It's expensive!!

Right lets wait until Caufield is 32 and Suzuki 34 to make any moves

 

[Habs Halifax]

Probably best we don't trade for PLD. Going to cost at least Florida pick. If not more? Which is going to be a good prospect. Then we have to pay him 7 or 8 million next season. Which can be used to acquire another first in '24 draft. If not more?

For one extra season of PLD on contending team, to give up 2 first picks, if not more. It's expensive!!

1) Panthers pick could be another Guhle or it could be another Tinordi. The chances the 17th pick returns someone like Guhle or better or just as good as PLD is just as slim as us winning the Bedard lottery

2) Expecting us to be able to take on another Monahan contract for a 1st is hope. It doesn't happen every year.

3) PLD is a proven top 2C and he's just as good as Suzuki. He also brings size/physicality which this team needs. He's less than a year older than Suzuki and wants to come home. We also have wingers like Slaf who need to play with talent to help their development. Letting him drown by playing with Dvorak is not ideal.

4) Not many Habs fans want to trade the "expensive" price for Dubois. We are mostly interested in trading for him if it's a Trouba type trade. We are not paying two 1sts or more type price so that narrative should be dropped. Rangers are fine today by trading the 20th pick and Pionk for Trouba and they were rebuilding when they made that trade.

5) Trade or wait till he is a UFA? I think most of us are open to either situation and ideally, we can sign him for free in the summer of 24 but that's when the cap will be known for 24/25 and it's going to be much higher than today. Cost to sign him could be $9M or $10M at that point. Waiting is not as easy of a decision like you or others might think.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bruins in caphell. Dubois will hit jackpot. He's not going there

I'm willing to bet $100 Dubois won't sign with the Bruins. Not happening for many reasons. Dubois will have lots of options and he's clearly a Habs fan deep down. Avs are a team I'm worried about. Canes too.

If Dubois doesn't pick the Habs, he's not picking the Bruins instead.

 

[BLONG7]

I'm willing to bet $100 Dubois won't sign with the Bruins. Not happening for many reasons. Dubois will have lots of options and he's clearly a Habs fan deep down. Avs are a team I'm worried about. Canes too.

If Dubois doesn't pick the Habs, he's not picking the Bruins instead.

All we have heard, since this guys draft year, was the Habs were taking him.............it's now what, 6-7 years later, and he seems to continue the angle that he wants to play for the Habs.
If there is a reasonable deal to be made, I think Hughes is all over it......

Dubois will be 25 this June I think, and WANTS to play for the Habs.
My initial thought a couple of seasons ago when the white noise was Dubois was forcing Columbus, and now the Jets to make this happen, was no thanks................but since then, this could be a very good move, to help the rebuild move a little quicker.

For me, it all comes down to what will it cost?
Agreed, no way he picks the Bruins as a UFA.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I'm actually more concerned about his contract than whatever we give up for him. Not gonna cry over some lost magic beans

I don't know why HuGo are so intent on 'accelerating the rebuild'.
Habs still don't have a franchise forward or defenceman, which is all but required to win a Cup.
I really like our players, but having $8M each to Suzuki, Caufield, PLD is just not gonna cut it. If Dach explodes while he's still at 3.5M then that's something but there's just not enough elite offensive talent here to win a championship.

Habs need to keep tanking until they draft at least one franchise forward/defencemen.

Yeah but the fans are crybabies

 

[MarkovsKnee]

imagine not wanting to trade a mid 1st and a future bust like Mesar (1st rounder) and Dvorak for Dubois

Yall crazy. The only crazy kids we have is Caufield and Guhle whos been injured alot. The rest are not even top 6 or top 4dmen lol. We suck at drafting and that's a reality. All teams are also bound to get a lucky once.

PLD will make the team better than players like Mailloux Mesar Roy Harris Barron RHP Farell in a heartbeat lol.

Also people gotta understand that even if we get Dubois we are still not a playoff team with an awful bottom 6 , no top def veterans or a #1 goalie.
Getting PLD is fixing 1 of the 3 holes in the top 6 right away and we could atleast make 2 duos instead of having 1 line doing everything and the 3 rest sleeps night after night

PLD isn't going to make the team all that much better. Just good enough to be mediocre instead of bad. Winnipeg and Columbus haven't exactly been successful wiz kids with him on the team.

Team finally has a deepening farm team, and finally is tanking during a deep draft year instead of terrible ones and people want to sell the farm for a 65 point player and give him $8m-$9m for it.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

For that to be a consideration the player has to develop first which is still a very uncertain thing even with a 17th overall pick. Cost controlled years have value but I'm not going to lose sleep over whether we might miss out on cost-controlled years for the next Liljegren or Fabbro with that pick, it only would be an "issue" if the player turns into an important piece which is possible but not likely.

The problem with your analysis is that you assume that the Habs futures will all be playing with the Habs, and that draft picks and prospects only have value if they play for the organization who drafted them. Teams rebuilding build assets of youth to find great players, but also because youth packages can be used to trade for veteran players the team covets. Former firsts and young NHL players are traded often and have pretty established trade values.

So should the Habs not trade for PLD now (because they're a terrible team that already has many high contract players it needs to jettison), and wait instead until they have a team ready to actually compete (which my guess is that will be in 2-3 years), at that time they can go and trade for whoever they need at that precise time and use the futures they've accumulated.

Signing PLD to a big contract now is a gamble the Habs don't need to make. They would be placing all their eggs into the PLD basket, when the Habs don't need that basket for another few years. With a huge bucket of youth to trade in a few years, the Habs will have plenty of options to trade for vets that address whatever needs they have at that moment, but roster veterans tied to high value contracts will stifle those options.

But since you said that you feel that PLD would be a core piece, you are probably fine with that gamble and then absolutely if the Habs brass feel that way, that will be why they make that move. Personally I have never been all that impressed by PLD so for me I would wait and see.

Take care!

 

[jellybeans]

No, but it speeds up the build by getting PLD then a guy at 17

Don't you think waiting until he's ufa and drafting with our pick 17 would speed up our build.

 

[salbutera]

PLD isn't going to make the team all that much better. Just good enough to be mediocre instead of bad. Winnipeg and Columbus haven't exactly been successful wiz kids with him on the team.

Team finally has a deepening farm team, and finally is tanking during a deep draft year instead of terrible ones and people want to sell the farm for a 65 point player and give him $8m-$9m for it.

In all fairness even McDavid was unable to get his team to the playoffs for the longest time or past the 1st round (thus far) when they did qualify…. until the team was made stronger

Hockey has always been & will always be the ultimate sum of all parts, team game.

A team with strong depth though lacking in high end talent (Bruins) have a higher probability of playoff success than 2-3 high end players surrounded by chumps…

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

In all fairness even McDavid was unable to get his team to the playoffs for the longest time or past the 1st round (thus far) when they did qualify…. until the team was made stronger

Hockey has always been & will always be the ultimate sum of all parts, team game.

A team with strong depth though lacking in high end talent (Bruins) have a higher probability of playoff success than 2-3 high end players surrounded by chumps…

Just to be clear - I WOULD trade #17 for Connor McDavid...

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

I actually think Dubois will have hes best seasons here

Watch him get 80 points with us next season

 

[Ozmodiar]

PLD isn't going to make the team all that much better. Just good enough to be mediocre instead of bad. Winnipeg and Columbus haven't exactly been successful wiz kids with him on the team.

Team finally has a deepening farm team, and finally is tanking during a deep draft year instead of terrible ones and people want to sell the farm for a 65 point player and give him $8m-$9m for it.

The Habs have to be sure they pay (trade and contract) according to how they’re going to use him.

For example, let’s say they’re high on Dach at center and they draft Michkov, who would get penciled in on the top line with NS and CC. That puts PLD on 2nd line wing in few years, without considering Slaf. Is that 8.5 we’ll spent?

OTOH, they could draft the D and accelerate the rebuild by trading for PLD and sticking him on the top line. More bang for your buck in this scenario.

 

[BergevinBurner]

I actually think Dubois will have hes best seasons here

Watch him get 80 points with us next season

If they were to play him on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield then I could see all 3 of those guys finishing at a PPG pace.

If we were to play him as a 2C I don't see him hitting much more than 60 points though.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

If they were to play him on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield then I could see all 3 of those guys finishing at a PPG pace.

If we were to play him as a 2C I don't see him hitting much more than 60 points though.

I would 100% put Dubois with Suzuki/Caufield hes exactly what that line needs

 

[salbutera]

Just to be clear - I WOULD trade #17 for Connor McDavid...

Not sure Holland would take that offer need to at least consider throwing in a 2nd + Ylonen me thinks..

 

[Jack Skellington]

If you designed a player from scratch to play with those 2 it would be PLD. Hes strong on the boards - which is their main weakness, he's a net front presence, he can shoot, he has the offensive IQ to actually facilitate their play (unlike an Anderson), and he can skate. He's even half decent in his own end.

 

[OpenIceHit]

At the right price, I would rather have him with the team starting this year in order to build chemistry with his teammates and be part of this whole rebuilding project at a early stage.

Also, a lot that can happen until July 2024 that could prevent him from being a Hab. French or not, he’s the exact type of player that we need.

 

[salbutera]

Hypothetical scenario:

Habs get lucky, win lottery draft Bedard.

Jets asking price for PLD is firm: Dach (1-for-1), do u do it?

Bedard + PLD coming in and Habs keep Fla 1st
/ Dach out

 

[Jack Skellington]

Hypothetical scenario:

Habs get lucky, win lottery draft Bedard.

Jets asking price for PLD is firm: Dach (1-for-1), do u do it?

Bedard + PLD coming in and Habs keep Fla 1st
/ Dach out

I wouldn't trade Dach for anything that another team would realistically trade for him. He carries the most valuable profile in hockey, perhaps besides the all around #1 dman like Hedman. If continues to develop he could be our most valuable player.

 

[Benstheman]

Hypothetical scenario:

Habs get lucky, win lottery draft Bedard.

Jets asking price for PLD is firm: Dach (1-for-1), do u do it?

Bedard + PLD coming in and Habs keep Fla 1st
/ Dach out

I Don't trade Dach for PLD. If we win Bedard, competing starts next season and we will need Dach.

Edit : If something, i try to push Calgary's or Habs 2025 1st instead. It fits the timeline better for us.

 

[Et le But]

The Jets Knights series has really shown the good and bad of PLD. He's definitely a complete player on the offensive end - strong, willing to go to the net, good hands, good shooter, not a total black hole even if he's a shoot first guy.

But he's definitely bad in his own end and forces a lot of low percentage plays. He's a turnover machine and it seems you can't fully separate the good from the bad here. He's an above average player but thinking being able to speak French at home will take him to the next level is purely wishful thinking.

Would I still trade for him? Under the right deal for sure. He'd be our best forward besides Suzuki and Caulfield immediately. We'll be lucky if Slafkovsky ends up as good as him when all is said and done - if the club is insistent on going win now (which I think is a mistake), you could argue Slaf should be on the table - he's useless for at least another season and might not end up as good as PLD when all is said and done.

That said, some of you horribly overrate this team. We are one of the worst teams in the league and PLD doesn't make us more than mediocre. The Jets are a better overall team than we are today - perhaps not for much longer, but even with PLD they are a mediocre wild card team. I know losing sucks but becoming a treadmill team again is a waste of time. We have a below average defense and goaltending situation, at least for now. A good draft this year could change a lot, but considering our first overall pick from last year does not project to be a factor again next year and we still have the same core that was one of the worst teams in the league on both sides of the ice this year.

But if Hughes doesn't want to be patient or Molson insists selling wild card playoff tickets is the priority at all costs - offer Slaf for PLD straight up and go from there.

 

[waitin425]

Hypothetical scenario:

Habs get lucky, win lottery draft Bedard.

Jets asking price for PLD is firm: Dach (1-for-1), do u do it?

Bedard + PLD coming in and Habs keep Fla 1st
/ Dach out

Dach for PLD is a 1 for 1 swap because they are basically equal. 1 for 1 swaps typically happen when players need a change of scenery or for cap implications. Neither of that applies to Dach. No thank you for that deal.

If we get lucky and win the lottery, trade that 17th pick + Dvorak for PLD.

Dach - Suzuki - Caufield
Slaf - PLD - Bedard

But if Hughes doesn't want to be patient or Molson insists selling wild card playoff tickets is the priority at all costs - offer Slaf for PLD straight up and go from there.

 

[HuGort]

And if he signs there he was never coming to the Habs anyway. He might sign somewhere else rather than wait another year for a long term contract but he would never sign with the hated Bruins.

Dubois not signing with Boston. Why do you want to go on foolish fear mongling tactic?

Bruins have 4 million in cap penalties next season. A big raise to Pastrnak, likely Swayman also. They have to re-up Orlov and Bertuzzi. Both are on retained contracts. Bruins have nothing in their farm to replace them. Their farm system is the worst in hockey. Not only that but they have traded most their draft picks next two drafts. Bruins even traded some picks up to 2025 draft.

How you think they going to swing 8-9 million a year for Dubois? Why would he go to team about to enter lengthy rebuilding phrase? Bruins all in this season. They the Habs on '21. With Price, Weber, Gallagher, Perry those guys.

Swayman I like to steal this summer though. He solid goalie. Only young he should improve yet. Bruins over the cap as is for next season now. They can't swing a 4 or 5 million contract for backup

 

[yianik]

I don't think we can say yet what the upside is for guys like Suzuki, Dach and PLD. But say the point range for them is 65-85 points, that's okay in today's NHL, but not spectacular.

Many say we need an elite player to win a Cup. But what if we didn't have 2 great centres , and instead had 3 real good centres. Would we not be able to compete for a Cup with 3 good scoring lines?

 

[yianik]

Dach for PLD is a 1 for 1 swap because they are basically equal. 1 for 1 swaps typically happen when players need a change of scenery or for cap implications. Neither of that applies to Dach. No thank you for that deal.

If we get lucky and win the lottery, trade that 17th pick + Dvorak for PLD.

Dach - Suzuki - Caufield
Slaf - PLD - Bedard

Agreed, Dach for PLD is a lateral move and is the epitome of shuffling deck chairs. Dach stays, and we have other assets to offer for PLD if we are looking at a trade.