Post-Game Talk: ITS OVER- Did we make a huge mistake on Pierre-Luc Dubois Thread?

[OnTheRun]

Drafting Kieran was a NHL Heritage moment, can't blame anyone for being overhyped for a M-AAA stud... or something.

 

[Redux91]

Yep. Not that you want to be thinking about this at the start of a contract either, but it also puts the team in a better position down the line where it's much easier in terms of fan pressure and such to move on from a guy when the deal expires at age 31-33 vs. a guy you sign off his ELC who expires at 28 or 29 where fans will rip the GM for letting the player go even if it's the right choice to pass on an 8 year deal.

Agree on Suzuki's deal as well, the value his long term deal provides is a big part of why I'm also so in favour of adding Dubois. I think people are strongly underrating the risk management aspects of this trade by focusing so closely on the $/WAR of the contract and the value of the assets we trade vs. Dubois himself (and the fretting about our 2024 draft position etc). There's a ton of value to long term certainty that isn't captured in a $/WAR calculation.

With Suzuki and Dubois in place, we would know that the worst case scenario is that we have Suzuki, Dubois, and Dach around as options to play C in the top 6, and gain the flexibility to run 3 strong lines in the playoffs. We get certainty at LW too as Dubois can fill that need if Slafkovsky doesn't pan out and/or if we don't develop another good top 6 LW. We'll never have to worry about adding size to the top 6, we'll be able to keep Dach with Suzuki and Caufield without sacrificing C depth. We could also aggressively target RD/wing/G upgrades without fretting about needing to fill the 2C slot, and it puts us in a much better position to capitalize on any unexpected prospect developments in the future as well.

Sticky this message ffs lol, even if HuGo themselves were on the "fence" about it, just make em read this and they'll be like "oh.. oh yeah, it DOES make sense doesn't it eh , "call cheveldayoff.""

 

[Redux91]

You guys are arguing with a guy who thought Kieran Ruscheinski was one of our best prospects.

Lol, I wouldn't say "arguing" , I'd call it more "explaining" and "spelling it out" really

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

The Auhtor of that article literally said he thinks his model made a mistake with Suzuki and shows why it needs work...

Answer the question, should we trade Nicl Suzuki since he is too old for a rebuild?

I mean personally I don't think Suzuki is a good comparable for PLD. PLD has been much more inconsistent. But I'd be comfortable paying PLD 6.5 million per on a long term deal. I just don't think that's his number.

Suzuki is entering his 24 y/o. He has 7 years left and the 5th will be his 28 y/o year. Plus he's the captain. I don't see any need to trade him, but I suppose it would depend on the offer.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

You guys are arguing with a guy who thought Kieran Ruscheinski was one of our best prospects.

That's quite the fabrication. I was rooting for him though, but never thought he was a good prospect. I mean he was a 7th round pick, who never played top quality hockey.

But I'm definitely not as knowledgeable about hockey as you are WTK. It would be nice to all get together sometime and watch a game together. Take care!

 

[sampollock]

PLD
Suz
CC
Guhle
not bad of a good young core. if Kent goes and gets PLD

 

[Redux91]

PLD
Suz
CC
Guhle
not bad of a good young core. if Kent goes and gets PLD

I'm personally offended that Dachs name isn't on this list lol

 

[sampollock]

I'm personally offended that Dachs name isn't on this list lol

Haha
Darn forgot that one

DACH !!
Ex Blade

 

[SwiftyHab]

How are we only at 109 pages?

 

[Canadienna]

How are we only at 109 pages?

~3000 posts/month. I'd say we're doing just fine.

And it will only pick up when the offseason hits

 

[Scriptor]

I may be wrong on this but I’ve never heard of other teams fanbases, media and management bringing up a local quota in regards to players and staff anywhere else in the NHL. Maybe places like Toronto and Ottawa would also if they weren’t a factory for talent. But it’s hard to ignore here if you’re a Canadiens fan looking from outside Quebec. And I’m sure it is for locals as well. It cripples the team when you put restrictions out there like that. There’s nothing wrong with wanting local players on your team if you’re a local fan, but it shouldn’t come with additional costs whether that be paying extra in a trade or overpaying on a contract. I don’t think you’ll find many, if any fans that wouldn’t take PLD. The argument is that everything from acquiring him to how he fits into future plans cap wise has To make sense ad we’re not just opening a blank cheque because of where he was born.

Where you're wrong is this local quota fantasy you are referring to.

Under Bergevin, there had never been so. few Quebecers drafted or playing for the Habs.

What friggin' restrictions.

In theory, or as a fake wish, but not in practice, for the most part in countless years, nit even at equal value.

The salary cap cares.

Not a problem, unlike what you make it out to be. Even less if you don't draft some generational alien monster.

 

[Scriptor]

I guess the contract value of players doesn't matter.

Poehling is a better value than Dubois because he costs less?

 

[SlafySZN]

One important factor, it’s a business not a fantasy league circle jerk for fanatics, there’s a reason Hughes said in a calculated manner the goal next year is to push for a playoff spot…. because that’s what the owners expect, not a 5-year rebuild program to satisfy fantasy leaguers but revenue generation in the immediate

Higher probability PLD will help push towards revenue generation vs an unknown hope of a mid 1st round pick

Does this sound like an owner who expects playoffs?

 

[KevSkillz4]

PLD
Suz
CC
Guhle
not bad of a good young core. if Kent goes and gets PLD

Slaf and Dach should be there aswell... both have high potential to have same impact of all you have mention it.

 

[Beer and Chips]

So this whole thing with Dubois is a Lindros situation, with Columbus being severely pissed off at him and so made sure Montreal didn't give an offer sheet then traded him to Winnipeg. Why would Winnipeg sign a player they knew didn't want to be there? This explains his supposed attitude problem, he wants to chose where he plays, bad, bad boy. Still don't know whether he would be worth it though.

 

[26Mats]

Slaf and Dach should be there aswell... both have high potential to have same impact of all you have mention it.

Dach I can pencil into the future core. He arrived this year. Slaf has the potential, as will our 1st round pick this year. But they'll have to show they can realize their potential before I call them part of the future core. Same with Mailloux and Hutson - and potentially Joshua Roy.

 

[Adam Michaels]

So this whole thing with Dubois is a Lindros situation, with Columbus being severely pissed off at him and so made sure Montreal didn't give an offer sheet then traded him to Winnipeg. Why would Winnipeg sign a player they knew didn't want to be there? This explains his supposed attitude problem, he wants to chose where he plays, bad, bad boy. Still don't know whether he would be worth it though.

I think he'll be worth it. Not at any price, of course. But I'm looking to trade for him this off-season rather than sit and wait a year for him to become a UFA. Because by then, things can change and you end up missing out on a player you target.

It's not an attitude problem. If it was, he sure has a funny way of showing it by competing and giving everything he has for the team he's playing for.

In Columbus, the issue was with Jarmo and management. You know who else had an issue with Jarmo and management? Josh Anderson, which is why he was traded when he was an RFA. Because they were playing hard ball in negotiations.

In Winnipeg, nobody should blame PLD for not wanting to stay there. It's been a recurring theme with the Jets that guys want out. Evander Kane wanted out. Jacob Trouba wanted out. Patrik Laine wanted out. Byfuglien decided to retire because he didn't want to be there anymore.

 

[salbutera]

I think he'll be worth it. Not at any price, of course. But I'm looking to trade for him this off-season rather than sit and wait a year for him to become a UFA. Because by then, things can change and you end up missing out on a player you target.

It's not an attitude problem. If it was, he sure has a funny way of showing it by competing and giving everything he has for the team he's playing for.

In Columbus, the issue was with Jarmo and management. You know who else had an issue with Jarmo and management? Josh Anderson, which is why he was traded when he was an RFA. Because they were playing hard ball in negotiations.

In Winnipeg, nobody should blame PLD for not wanting to stay there. It's been a recurring theme with the Jets that guys want out. Evander Kane wanted out. Jacob Trouba wanted out. Patrik Laine wanted out. Byfuglien decided to retire because he didn't want to be there anymore.

In Byfuglien’s case it had nothing to do with Winter-Peg or the Jets, he didn’t want to play pro hockey anymore, but rather just go fishing & hunting back across the border in Minny.

Minny / Wisconsin / Michigan players have an affinity for Winter-peg - proximity to home

 

[sampollock]

Slaf and Dach should be there aswell... both have high potential to have same impact of all you have mention it.

yes you are correct, i missed them

Go trade for PLD and let's keep building

 

[Naslundforever]

I think he'll be worth it. Not at any price, of course. But I'm looking to trade for him this off-season rather than sit and wait a year for him to become a UFA. Because by then, things can change and you end up missing out on a player you target.

It's not an attitude problem. If it was, he sure has a funny way of showing it by competing and giving everything he has for the team he's playing for.

In Columbus, the issue was with Jarmo and management. You know who else had an issue with Jarmo and management? Josh Anderson, which is why he was traded when he was an RFA. Because they were playing hard ball in negotiations.

In Winnipeg, nobody should blame PLD for not wanting to stay there. It's been a recurring theme with the Jets that guys want out. Evander Kane wanted out. Jacob Trouba wanted out. Patrik Laine wanted out. Byfuglien decided to retire because he didn't want to be there anymore.

I am also a big fan of signing key pieces as available instead of having a theoretical master plan that magically lines up for 2024-2025. Pld Suzuki Dach would be just fine down the middle. It makes other wannabe hab centers trade-able and no longer get “default” slots with the habs (been a while we expect 18-20 year olds to fix the Damphousse drought and making questionable development decisions in the process)..

 

[jonlin]

15-20 there's only really Mercer, Caufield, Vasilevskiy, and Larkin who are definitively better than Dubois

Connor, Barzal, Thomas, Chabot?

 

[Vachon23]

Connor, Barzal, Thomas, Chabot?

That’s funny !

that being said, I take PLD before Thomas with the size/physicality he brings

 

[Habs Halifax]

That’s funny !

that being said, I take PLD before Thomas with the size/physicality he brings

I don't understand why fans are spending energy to devalue Dubois. He's just as good as Suzuki and less than one year older. They play different styles but they are equal talent IMO.

Adding Dubois's size to this mix is a very good situation. I would add him regardless if we get Bedard or not. In fact, I'd argue it's even more important to add his size to the mix because we won't win with a soft forward group based on skill. I also think keeping Anderson is a good move.

 

[The Great Weal]

I like how people all of a sudden think we can draft a better player than PLD with the 17th pick when we have one of the worst drafting records in the entire league.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I like how people all of a sudden think we can draft a better player than PLD with the 17th pick when we have one of the worst drafting records in the entire league.

What drafting record? Anything before last season is completely irrelevant. And even in MB's last few years he started to draft better - Guhle, Mailloux, Caufield, Roy