Post-Game Talk: IT WAS 4-1 | LEAFS WIN 5-4 IN OVERTIME

[stats1]

I just want to give a shout out to Knies!!!! Kid just walks in here after losing a national championship and he’s on the ice for every massive goal so far, plus what a play!!! Knocking the puck off the line up save the game. Love his effort and contributions early.

 

[kb]

I will apologize guys.

Not getting into it anymore with the posters thinking they are smarter than everyone by criticizing or downplaying good things.

They can't even enjoy a historic comeback. I know how to deal with those etch-a-sketch types.

 

[Future]

So the fact that an 18 year old in Cooley destroyed knies in points on the same team and the fact that (as far as I know) no other player has had similar numbers and gone on to be a star player doesn't make you think it's much more likely that knies ends up being a kreider or jvr than a ppg star player? Not to mention every scouting report I've read makes it seem like he's probably going to be a second liner.

What is this take? Have you heard of Alex Tuch? I think most of us would love if Knies became a Tuch or a Kreider type of player for us.

Just use your eyes. Most talented forward on the team outside of the big 4. If Bunting and Hyman can score 20+ goals and 60+ points with nowhere near the talent, there’s no reason to put a ceiling on Knies at 20 years old when he’s looking this good.

 

[seventieslord]

I might of screamed at hagel through the screen during that interview. I already hate him.

HE'S IRRELEVANT??? HOLY f***!!!

 

[Dayjobdave]

I am still happy the Leafs won last night. Great comeback - not worrying about all the other narratives

 

[stats1]

IF and I mean IF the boys pull it off on Thursday, how bad does that Jeannot trade look? TB gave up like 5 or 6 assets for him. Jeez

 

[seventieslord]

He was also an assistant coach on the Tampa Bay Lightning championship teams and a minor league coach during the developmental years of this Lightning core group. Definitely spilling some Lightning state secrets on Canadian television.

So if he was there for the championship years and they haven't had any reason to fire a person in the organization since then, why isn't he still with them?

 

[TDotMassive]

So the fact that an 18 year old in Cooley destroyed knies in points on the same team and the fact that (as far as I know) no other player has had similar numbers and gone on to be a star player doesn't make you think it's much more likely that knies ends up being a kreider or jvr than a ppg star player? Not to mention every scouting report I've read makes it seem like he's probably going to be a second liner.

He already played on our 1st line, for numerous shifts, and did not look out of place at all. In fact, Keefe threw him up there last game to help spark the top-line, because up to that point, you could argue Knies was our best forward.

 

[Morgs]

So the fact that an 18 year old in Cooley destroyed knies in points on the same team and the fact that (as far as I know) no other player has had similar numbers and gone on to be a star player doesn't make you think it's much more likely that knies ends up being a kreider or jvr than a ppg star player? Not to mention every scouting report I've read makes it seem like he's probably going to be a second liner.

Nobody thinks higher of Cooley than me, but he's basically a clone of Barzal, who is one of the hardest players to play with in the league. And again you're treating this like stars don't come out of nowhere all the time based on perceived flaws and development. You think people knew Benn would be a star in junior? Pavelski? Where did Verhaege come from? Points aren't everything man, and it's pretty clear your only evidence of your opinion is "Knies didn't score enough points so he's automatically not going to be a star". Development isn't linear, and he's still growing into his abilities. If his vision improves (already has leaps and bounds since his d0) there's no real hurdles.

His skill is way higher than Kreiders, but his skating is also far behind. They play similar roles and imo could have similar impacts, but they play completely different styles. Both struggle with vision at times too. Knies goes through you, Kreider goes around you is about as simple as i can make it. He's like JVR because stylistically they attack you the same way and have similar strengths/weaknesses. Big difference is people always clamored for JVR to be more physical, which Knies is. JvR also improved a bunch when he found his role.

 

[stats1]

Next time a Leaf player gets asked about how to handle a certain type of TB player they should just look at the reporter and yell “HOLY F###!!! HE’S IRRELEVANT!”

 

[Suntouchable13]

So if he was there for the championship years and they haven't had any reason to fire a person in the organization since then, why isn't he still with them?

You talking about Lalonde? He is the head coach of the Detroit Red Wings.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Nice "home" game

Honestly, I have so much respect for the Bolts and what they've been able to accomplish these past 3 years and counting. They are by no means out of this series. We are still the Leafs, and they are still the Bolts.

But that said, I just can't even fathom the idea of sportsnet panning to that geriatric "thunder alley" with all of their lazy asses in lawn chairs, not even getting out of their seats when their team scores a goal. Like, Toronto was never a traditional basketball market, but you'd never know that by the support in Jarrasic park, and that's only after 1 successful playoff run. This f***ing Bolts fanbase has had 3 straight Stanley Cup runs + 2 rings and yet they can't even get outta their lawn chairs to celebrate. It's actually pathetic

I went to their board after game 2 to see if there was an update on the health status of Hedman and Cernak, there was I believe 2 up to date posts in their injury thread, meanwhile the injuries were mounting.

Please let us put an end to their run. They've had enough fun already

 

[rielledup]

Nobody thinks higher of Cooley than me, but he's basically a clone of Barzal, who is one of the hardest players to play with in the league. And again you're treating this like stars don't come out of nowhere all the time based on perceived flaws and development. You think people knew Benn would be a star in junior? Pavelski? Where did Verhaege come from? Points aren't everything man, and it's pretty clear your only evidence of your opinion is "Knies didn't score enough points so he's automatically not going to be a star". Development isn't linear, and he's still growing into his abilities. If his vision improves (already has leaps and bounds since his d0) there's no real hurdles.

His skill is way higher than Kreiders, but his skating is also far behind. They play similar roles and imo could have similar impacts, but they play completely different styles. Both struggle with vision at times too. Knies goes through you, Kreider goes around you is about as simple as i can make it. He's like JVR because stylistically they attack you the same way and have similar strengths/weaknesses. Big difference is people always clamored for JVR to be more physical, which Knies is. JvR also improved a bunch when he found his role.

I'll concede I may have had a knee jerk reaction without putting enough thought into it based on people's tendencies to overreact to small sample sizes.

 

[ACC1224]

I just want to give a shout out to Knies!!!! Kid just walks in here after losing a national championship and he’s on the ice for every massive goal so far, plus what a play!!! Knocking the puck off the line up save the game. Love his effort and contributions early.

Knew very little of him before but he looks like he's going to be a monster here, maybe as early as next year.
I'd love to see him unleash that shot I've heard about. I don't think he's had one clean look.

 

[therealkoho]

I said to my wife if the Leafs don't score by 5 mins into the 3rd then this ones over,is there a movie you might care to watch?

At 10:35 my oldest texted me "Got home just in time for the Leafs to go into OT for the second game in a row"

I didn't check it until he texted again, this time twice!

"Leafs PP in OT golden opportunity" "deflected in! OT winner!! There is bedlam in Maple Leafs Square!!!

I read his texts and figure he must be sticking the needles in. So I text back...

"Are you srs, I turned it off after they gifted Tampa a 2nd PP with a 4-1 lead F.That!

Just to let him know that I wasn't finding this funny at all. He then texted back

"I'm not dreaming, I'm waiting for the livestream t wrap up and then I'll re-watch from the start

So did I.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

During my volleyball playing and coaching days, I never ever changed a winning lineup for a playoff game or even after a set. Bunting should come in only if we lose on Thursday.

But how many of those winning lineups did did you go "f*** we didn't deserve to win that, we were dog shit."

And if you did how many times did it happen twice in a row?

I agree you shouldn't change a winning lineup, because it's a winning lineup but that's the ONLY it shouldn't, because the reality is they were dog shit in game 3, they were even worse in game 4, I didn't know that was possible but they were.

And they won.

 

[Beaumaris]

Seeing some analysts saying the Leafs won two games they didn’t “deserve.” First off a win is a win regardless, but it’s especially untrue with regards to last night’s victory. The Leafs dominated the Lightning in the third en route to that comeback.

Score more than your opponent,that’s what it’s all about.
If you can do that,then it is well deserved.

 

[willmma]

Leafs couldn't enter the OZ at all in the first half of the game. Tampa was able to get it out right away.

In the second we got a little better and in the third we were able to enter the zone, control the puck, set up screens and score.

Is this a change they made during the game on how they enter the zone? Or is it just Tampa taking their foot off the gas? or a bit of both?

I hope Keefe and the coaching staff figured out how to penetrate the D and enter the zone.

Hagel said they're doing the same thing and they were winning. I hope the Leafs figured out how to beat the Tampa's D to enter the zone, that would bode really well for us in game 5.

 

[kb]

Lmao firstly I think its hilarious youre quoting that I'm specifically not using numbers when I'm the guy *always* quoting numbers. I straight up use my own formula for NHLe that adjusts for player age. Not to mention I'm the guy constantly combing through underlyings on obscure league websites, comparing past production, and subscribe to the guys that track the underlyings for the CHL/NCAA and NHLe models. I also have watched quite a bit of each of our prospects, and I especially take interest in guys like Knies and Niemela.

The issue here is you're over-reliant on the production numbers and you're breaking away from the context of the situation. His numbers have *always* been impressive going back to his D-1. Issues in his D0 with sickness & injury caused him to stagnate production-wise (which allowed us to scoop him up), and he "stagnated" again this year because he's playing with like 12 top-90 draft picks. He also played with a guy I consider to be a bit of a puck hog in Cooley. When you play with great players, everyone is going to get theirs. Not to mention they don't need to be over-reliant on one line like other teams in the NCAA are forced to be. Production also doesn't take into account things like how Knies was arguably the best transition player in the NCAA based on the tracking stats and how he also creates a ridiculous amount of HD chances; which has already started showing up at the pro level. Unlike a guy like Snuggerud, Knies production wasnt based on an absurd amount of secondary points either, which is a major red flag. Production is important at junior levels as its still the best tool we have at projecting pro success, but using it on it's own as a comparative tool is asinine. We might as well crown Grebyonkin a future star F with the numbers he put up in the KHL this year. No development is linear, and looking at past examples just limit your expectations, when the ability to project a player like Knies is limitless. He has all the skill in the world, an amazing shot, and still has some things I'd love (and I'm sure the would Leafs) for him to work on like his vision and passing. There's absolutely star potential there, but I've always maintained he's a physical version of JVR- a 30 goal, 60 point player, but you know if it clicks there's more.

Well said!

My favourite thread is the prospect thread because of posters like you who take the time to do the underlying stuff. And how posters in there do not feel they are the be all and end all, there is room for debate there....respectful debate.

Yet here we have posters galaxy braining off raw point totals in completely contextless situations, all while thinking their opinion is faultless and superior to everyone else.

 

[stats1]

Knew very little of him before but he looks like he's going to be a monster here, maybe as early as next year.
I'd love to see him unleash that shot I've heard about. I don't think he's had one clean look.

I think as a rookie he’s trying to play more safe and defensive early on, I think the deeper we go or even next year we’ll see him try more risky plays to create chances. I will say he’s got quick handles in tight for a kid his size, love his tenacity along the boards as well, his compete level is really high

 

[mix1home]

LMAO

Marner left it there after his presser.

 

[seventieslord]

Why even bring this up?

By the way, had to laugh at this comment from a Tampa fan.

"I think we're up 3-1 is Cernak doesn't get cheap shotted."

Perfectly valid opinion to have if you ask me. You can't underestimate the ripple effect of having a number three defenseman on the ice for 20 minutes instead of your number seven. Lots could have been different.

 

[kb]

It's not always how you start... but how you finish.

That's what my ex-wife used to say.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

They can't even enjoy a historic comeback.

It's a sign of PTSD.

<--- medical doctor.

I deal with PTSD every day.

 

[stats1]

Leafs couldn't enter the OZ at all in the first half of the game. Tampa was able to get it out right away.

In the second we got a little better and in the third we were able to enter the zone, control the puck, set up screens and score.

Is this a change they made during the game on how they enter the zone? Or is it just Tampa taking their foot off the gas? or a bit of both?

I hope Keefe and the coaching staff figured out how to penetrate the D and enter the zone.

Hagel said they're doing the same thing and they were winning. I hope the Leafs figured out how to beat the Tampa's D to enter the zone, that would bode really well for us in game 5.

Tampa really just stopped playing.. I guess they thought they had it in the bag, once it got to 4-3 it went from stopped playing to them getting nervous they got tentative, we gained confidence. Once the tying goal went in you could tell on Cooper’s face was shitting himself.