ISS new top 10 list for 2011

[PensFan101]

Good call. People on here get way to focused on that sort of stuff.

ISS is independent, they have no reason not to call it like they see it. If they get it wrong, it hurts their credibility.



What specifically about Couturier's game do you dislike? Have you seen him play?

There's nothing really wrong about Couturier's game that makes me place Larsson ahead of him, it's what Larsson has done. Larsson's already proven a lot at a very high level of professional hockey (in my opinion the 3rd best league in the world in terms of talent level). A full year before he's drafted, that has to count as something huge. In fact, at this point before a draft year, I don't believe any player since 2006 has accomplished what Larsson has. That isn't to say Couturier can't up the ante even further, but it's hard to look past a player that is already at least a legitimate Top 4 defenseman in a quality pro league.

Your first point, however, is very true.

 

[BrianSTC]

I wish people would stop with the Canadian bias thing. ISS is not going to risk its reputation just so they can rank a Canadian number one.

 

[Bjorn Le]

No, I meant I see more than two possibilities for the first overall pick.

Really...?

Larsson is easily the best defensivemen, and Couturier as of now is the best forward.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

This draft could yield a US power forward at number one.

Ambroz in particular seems to be rising in the scouting consciousness. I'm very interested to see how Saad does with Saginaw this year. If he lights it up, he could be in the top three range.

 

[MikeC]

He isn't trolling. Just another Swedish poster with an inferiority complex towards Canada. They're beginning to rival the Russians with their obsession.

It has nothing to do with inferiority complex.

I know Dogbert, you must be an expert on the subject...how many times did you see Larsson play?...0...How many times did you see Couturier play? 0. So please stop acting like an expect when you look like George Constanza a few seconds after his mother caught him using his body like an amusement park.

At this moment Larsson is > than Couturier. Does it mean that Couturier is not a great prospect? No. But to do what Larsson did at 17 is amazing. If Larsson continue to develop this year like he did in the past it will be a 1 player race and no one will be able to catch him.

And by the way, I saw Couturier play at least 15 games last year. Was he good? yes But we need to see what he will do without Gabriel Dumont on his line. Dumont was (in my book) the best player in the QMJHL last year and he is the type of player that makes evryone around him better.

I wish Couturier good luck but my money is on Larsson.

 

[GAGLine]

How Couturier can be ranked ahead of Larsson at this point is beyond me.

Because they rank players based on their future projections as NHL players, not based on their current accomplishments. If they feel that Couturier has the higher upside and will be a better pro, who cares? I'm sure it's still very close and could go either way. I'm sure we'll see them interchanged quite a bit before the draft.

I don't get why some people are so hung up on a guy being #1 overall simply because he's from their country. I couldn't care less if a US player was rated 1st, 2nd or 30th. In the end all that matters is what kind of player they become. Be happy that your system is producing good players and stop worrying about "respect".

 

[R S]

Siemens cracking the top ten is interesting.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think both Musil and Siemens can move up the list if either of them add more offense to there game this coming season. Both are pretty solid in their own end. Musil is ahead of Siemens offensively though and I think he could double his offensive stats next year.

 

[markov`]

Just realized Larsson outscored Runblad and Erixon and he's 2 years younger, that's just ridiculous. That kid is going to be good.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Just realized Larsson outscored Runblad and Erixon and he's 2 years younger, that's just ridiculous. That kid is going to be good.

He also had more points than MPS had in his draft year.

Also very surprising seeing Rask at #3 and no Landeskog.

But, like I said, I won't believe this list until I see a confirmed source (which would be ISS)

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Actually, I was wrong. He had just as many.

 

[Tigers1992]

It has nothing to do with inferiority complex.

I know Dogbert, you must be an expert on the subject...how many times did you see Larsson play?...0...How many times did you see Couturier play? 0. So please stop acting like an expect when you look like George Constanza a few seconds after his mother caught him using his body like an amusement park.

At this moment Larsson is > than Couturier. Does it mean that Couturier is not a great prospect? No. But to do what Larsson did at 17 is amazing. If Larsson continue to develop this year like he did in the past it will be a 1 player race and no one will be able to catch him.

And by the way, I saw Couturier play at least 15 games last year. Was he good? yes But we need to see what he will do without Gabriel Dumont on his line. Dumont was (in my book) the best player in the QMJHL last year and he is the type of player that makes evryone around him better.

I wish Couturier good luck but my money is on Larsson.

At least your comments are made with information, which I take seriously.

For others, without every seeing someone play, to call someone over rated, is irresponsible.

The way that he talks about him, im going to assume that Captain Moon (STHLM*) has seen him play 10- 20 games live, and I will wait for him to acknowledge that as fact.

 

[MitchRobichaud]

The top 15 prospects for next season's draft are very intriguing. I do believe there are (yet again) a consensus 1st and 2nd overall, but with still a full year to play, there's no way to determine which prospect will go first.

For those who say that Couturier is playing in the 3rd best junior league in Canada, I don't know what you are watching. All 3 leagues are very good leagues for prospects and to sya that one is better than another is just ignorance.

I do have Larsson ranked ahead of Couturier at the moment, but by a slimmer margin than most Swedish posters.I will admit, I've only seen Larsson play in the WJC, both U20 and U18, while I've seen Couturier play over 20 times the past couple of seasons.

I would be curious to know Larsson's average icetime compared to Hedman's at the same age. Larsson is definitely a very promising prospect as is Couturier and it will be another interesting race to see who goes first overall in 2011.

 

[Tigers1992]

The top 15 prospects for next season's draft are very intriguing. I do believe there are (yet again) a consensus 1st and 2nd overall, but with still a full year to play, there's no way to determine which prospect will go first.

For those who say that Couturier is playing in the 3rd best junior league in Canada, I don't know what you are watching. All 3 leagues are very good leagues for prospects and to sya that one is better than another is just ignorance.

I do have Larsson ranked ahead of Couturier at the moment, but by a slimmer margin than most Swedish posters.I will admit, I've only seen Larsson play in the WJC, both U20 and U18, while I've seen Couturier play over 20 times the past couple of seasons.

I would be curious to know Larsson's average icetime compared to Hedman's at the same age. Larsson is definitely a very promising prospect as is Couturier and it will be another interesting race to see who goes first overall in 2011.

I think its very much interchangeable. Both players have what it takes to go #1. Good to see another informed poster.

 

[smitty10]

Yes, and don't understand why? I guess it's all about Canadian bias. Because prospect wise I don't see any reason to put Couturier above Larsson.

Have you ever seen Couturier play? Are you in any position to be making accusations like this?

Also, how is this a Canadian bias? I think having two Swedes in the top 3 players is pretty damn good, especially considering that Czech defenseman David Musil and Canadian Ryan Nugent-Hopkins are both outide of the top 3 and from what I've seen/heard have very good chances of going in the top 3 players.

It doesn't matter where players are ranked at this point. Larsson could very well be #1 in every ranking after this or he could continue to be #2, but still go first overall. Stop with this conspiracy non-sense. It's getting very old, very quickly.

 

[onetweasy]

For those who say that Couturier is playing in the 3rd best junior league in Canada, I don't know what you are watching. All 3 leagues are very good leagues for prospects and to sya that one is better than another is just ignorance

Memorial Cup Champions by League - since 1983

WHL - 15
OHL - 9
QMHL - 4

Seems to be the 3rd best league.........

 

[onetweasy]

Really?

Couturier's numbers aren't great as Tavares' numbers.

But Larsson as 17 years old had 17 points. Hedman as 17 years old had 4 points.

Larsson is also one year from the draft and he's 6'3 220lbs.

The next big thing for Larsson: to break Hedman's record 21 points(for U18 or U20 players) and since he was only 4 points behind last year I think he will fix this easily. But Of course no matter how great the swedish prospects do, it will be a Canadian again.

I agree - in my opinion Couturier is not even close to Larsson. I would take a 17 year old d-man who is playing well in a mens league than a forward putting up points in the Q........

I think Larsson will be the clear #1 as the year plays out - although the media will make is seem closer than it is to drum up ratings

 

[bruinsfan46]

Btw, is there a REAL source here? I wouldn't trust Wikipedia on this.

Your real source is: 2011 NHL Draft: ISS top 30". Hockey Now (Alberta edition): p. 19. 2010-07-01., so it's a print source that you're welcome to try and find. Or just take Wikipedia as correct, it usually is.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

The overvaluation of young players playing in men's league is astounding

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

The overvaluation of young players playing in men's league is astounding

Do you care to elaborate?

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Do you care to elaborate?

For some reason if you play in a men's league you are a better prospect then someone who plays in a Junior league. That is not a good way to evaluate any prospect.

Nothing against Larsson. I haven't seen him play too many times to make any kind of evaluation for or against were I think he should be ranked but the argument that he is better than Couturier because he plays in the SEL doesn't hold water for me.

I am also personally not a fan of looking at Stats and saying whether or not a player will actually be successful at the NHL level. Too many guys tear up leagues and they never step foot on NHL ice whether its the junior ranks or back in Europe

 

[MitchRobichaud]

When Hedman was that age he had 10:45 TOI/G and got 4 points in 39 games. Adam Larsson had 17:35 this season and 17 points in 49 games.

Awesome.. thanks for the info... how about special teams play? how many of Larsson's points came from the Power Play?

 

[MitchRobichaud]

Memorial Cup Champions by League - since 1983

WHL - 15
OHL - 9
QMHL - 4

Seems to be the 3rd best league.........

I'll agree with you a bit on this, but at the same time the memorial cup can also be won by a team that goes 1-2 in the round robin, since it's only one game. So I don't think it really proves that the league is better. All the Canadian junior league are very close, all be it in different ways. WHL is more physical, OHL seems to be faster, and QMJHL seems to be a little more positionally played. That's just my opinion from watching each league and I'm sure some will disagree.

 

[RangerRed]

Really...?

Larsson is easily the best defensivemen, and Couturier as of now is the best forward.

Therein lies the key clause. While Couturier is the best forward right now, there's nothing saying he will be at the end of next year and I don't think he's set a standard so lofty it'll be impossible for another player to get over.

Look at the "Top Ten" that The Hockey News released after last year's draft. Tyler Seguin wasn't even in it. Either were Jeff Skinner, Nino Niederreiter or Ryan Johansen.

I've got a personal favourite to overcome Sean Couturier as the draft's best forward just because, barring injury, he's going to get every opportunity to raise his hype among scouts.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

For some reason if you play in a men's league you are a better prospect then someone who plays in a Junior league. That is not a good way to evaluate any prospect.

Nothing against Larsson. I haven't seen him play too many times to make any kind of evaluation for or against were I think he should be ranked but the argument that he is better than Couturier because he plays in the SEL doesn't hold water for me.

I am also personally not a fan of looking at Stats and saying whether or not a player will actually be successful at the NHL level. Too many guys tear up leagues and they never step foot on NHL ice whether its the junior ranks or back in Europe

Yes, I agree to some extent.
Playing in the SEL (for example) doesn't mean you are automatically some kind of wonderkid. There are plenty of juniors who doesn't really make an impression.
However, it's entirely different if you play in a men's league as a 16/17 year old and you are one of the better players. It means you are a very special player and most likely will end up as an elite player at some point.

Anyway, not getting in to the whole Sweden vs Canada debate. It's pointless and stupid.