Joe Hallenback
Moderator
- Mar 4, 2005
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RangerRed
Registered User
Joe Hallenback
Moderator
- Mar 4, 2005
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I like Larsson he seems to be better offensively than Hedman was. The one thing that worries me when I saw him at the World Juniors was his defensive game as I thought he was far too passive but then again he was what 16? Can't be too hard on any 16 year old Defenseman at the World Juniors.
Joe Hallenback
Moderator
- Mar 4, 2005
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Ranking is not done on what you have done its the potential you have. So when you are 25 who will be the better player? Who will have a better NHL Career? Just because you did great at 17 doesnt mean you will be awesome at 25. Couturier has a lot of assets and size already that scouts are oozing about and right now the ISS thinks that Couturier will have a better career then Larrson at the next level. That doesnt mean it will happen. Larsson has done extremely well and it will be a battle for number one and Couturier can easily fall if he doesnt keep improving.
Esposito production completly stalled and there was no progression in his game. Tavares had the same issue. Flew out of the gates but slowed down in production which made it a race between Hedman/Tavares and Duchene. Right now Duchene seems to be the most complete player of the three and he was picked #3. Hedman has a ton of potential , Tavares has hockey sense (like corey perry) and vision .
Scouts dogged Corey Perry cuz one he couldnt skate like Carter/Richards etc and people thought he wouldnt make it at the nhl but his numbers were impressive. Tavares was in the same boat but because of his past production the Isles felt he was the best guy to take for their future.
Interesting to that Edmonton has a good chance at the 1st overall again and is dire need of a #1 d-man and a #1 centerman. I guess you can't lose with either.
My money is on Larsson for both team need and bpa. I have nothing to really base that on besides what I've read/seen on tv
My money is on Larsson for both team need and bpa. I have nothing to really base that on besides what I've read/seen on tv
Samsonov played in a mens league before being drafted. And was rookie of the year while Joe Thornton was benched and ppl called him a bust..
Who has had the better career? Just because one plays in a mens league doesnt mean they will have a better career at the NHL.
Patrik Stefan is another bust from a mens league...
RangerRed
Registered User
So naming one example, and a bust from a mens league means your point is correct?
Playing in a mens league doesn't mean you are a better prospect, because at the end of the day, prospects are about future projections not current play. But there are special cases. Larsson is a high end player at 17 in a very high end league. He compares favourably to some of the best Swedish prospects of all time ... and by and large the best Swedish prospects of all time have gone on to be produce elite seasons in the NHL.
Couturierdeserves to be in contention for the #1 spot, but instead of this inane debate on the leagues they play in, surely any rankings should be based on actual projections? I have Larsson at #1 for now, but its perectly reasonable that Couturier or another prospect could take over the #1 spot.
Instead we have to read a continuation of posts trashing various leagues and people posting completely non-relevant examples of prospects who busted 10 years ago.
I believe that Stefan played in IHL in his draft year.
Doesn't mean that men's league is a guarantee from bust, but men's league makes prospect more proven.
Doesn't mean that men's league is a guarantee from bust, but men's league makes prospect more proven.
Joe Hallenback
Moderator
- Mar 4, 2005
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In what manner? If that is the case than any player playing in a men's league makes them the better player. That is like me saying playing in the WHL which is more physical makes you a better player then playing in the SEL.
Personally I think playing against your Peers is a much better way to determine where you are at overall
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
Yeah I know what you mean now.
Like McFarland last year, but its kinda diffrent. You're right though, by June next year Couturier could be ranked out of the top 10.
Thats the problem, people get so wrapped up in nationalities on this site that if their countries player is not ranked higher, they assume its a bias.
Both players are great, and I think most reasonable and rational people can agree that it is a pretty close race, but one that is hardly even started.
Good luck to both players.
TimHortons
Gud Night
- Jan 26, 2004
- 1,139
- 1
You're a big OHL guy. I'd wager its Peterborough Pete, Matt Puempel.
I'm also very high on this kid.
Jeffler
See You At Game 3
Its not Canadian Bias that Larsson is at #2 instead of #1.
What it is though, is the ISS trying to make up a battle for #1 controversy like they do every single year. Nationality has nothing to do with it.
What it is though, is the ISS trying to make up a battle for #1 controversy like they do every single year. Nationality has nothing to do with it.
RangerRed
Registered User
I would not be surprised to see Shane McColgan get himself into the top 5-7 at the least and a chance to even go higher in my opinion.
Riggins
Registered User
Who was that smallish offensive dman from the OHL that Don Cherry was talking about one night on Coach's Corner?
bottomofthefoodchain
Registered User
I think we are saying the same thing. Rankings are done by who will have the better NHL Career. Sure thats my one example but no it doesnt prove a point other then just because you play in a mens league doesnt mean you will have a better NHL Career. Thats how rankings are done. So right now, Couturier is projected from ISS that he will have a better NHL Career then Larsson. Larsson has done extremely well and is one of the best swedish prospects and unfortunately he sits #2 right now. But who cares? #1, #2, #3 whatever. Most of the time #1's are not the best player in the draft anyways.
Im just trying to end this stupid draft of saying ISS is biased. When its not and a lot of other factors are involved and its about NHL Career. Not what they have done.
Correct, I think playing in a mens league 1. you are more proven but 2, you can come into the NHL and provide more of an impact.
Samsonov is a great example I think. Came out with tons of speed and agility wins the calder, his future looked soo bright. But then his progression slowed down and he hit his ceiling of potential.
While Joe Thornton was slow out of the games but has been top 10 in points for what the last 10 years?
Anyways Larsson is a great young dman prospect and right now couturier looks great as a forward prospect. Who knows where they will be by the end of the year but ill tell you this. It will be hard for Larsson to fall out of the top 10 vs Couturier. Couturier can fall faster imo. Larsson has proved soo much already that hes pretty much secured himself as one of the top picks in 2011. Couturier needs an amazing season to keep him with Larsson.
SPORTSMANIAC
Registered User
Totally agree...I mean Hall, Seguin Tavares etc would put up similar numbers to MPS Backstrom, Kopitar in the SEL in their draft year. Some people on this board make Swedish/European players could come over and break Lemieux's and Gretzky's junior records because they played against men at such a young age.
I don't follow junior hockey much but notice that McColgan had similar numbers as Nugent Hopkins...yet not much talk about him in this thread.
Radek Bonk and Robert Dome also played against men in their draft year. Past history shows us that performing well against men in one's draft year is a very poor predictor of future success.
