Rumor: Is Travis Dermott being shopped around?

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PettersonHughes

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Aug 26, 2020
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They need a top six winger who scores in the playoffs. Size and grit is a bonus. What is his value? A 2nd is fair value.

Haha Chiasson has been a near-40 pt. guy (38 in 73 games, including 22 goals during the season) :sarcasm:
Frankly, Vancouver isn't trading any of Miller/ Boeser/ Pearson/ Garland/ Hoglander/ Podkolzin for him, when he's a 12 minutes a night guy with 1 point and -4 in 10 games.
Chiasson + 3rd (or 2nd if we need to patch up the 3rd LD as the final hole) is the max I'd do honestly.
 

seanlinden

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They need a top six winger who scores in the playoffs. Size and grit is a bonus. What is his value? A 2nd is fair value.

I'm not so sure the Leafs have the cap, or roster flexibility to take on another winger at this point....

Mikheyev is presently on LTIR, and for him to come back, the Leafs would either have to waive Engvall/Simmonds, or send Liljegren back to the Marlies. They can only afford a 21-man healthy roster.

They're obviously happy with Bunting. They want to keep Kerfoot incase Tavares or Matthews gets hurt, and I don't believe they're quite ready to give up on the Nick Ritchie attempt. I believe that leaves Engvall & Simmonds as the only guys who they'd have to look at doing an "upgrade" on.
 

ToDavid

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According to Daily Faceoff, Dermott's been listed next to Rielly as RD but he's averaging around 14:22, so my question is what's the expected role and asking price for him? Also, what do the Leafs need?

I'd be interested if he can be a smart, mobile and stable LD (could use a 3rd pair guy behind OEL and Hughes).

He’s only just moved up with Rielly a couple games ago.

Mobile, very. Our best skating D behind Rielly and arguably stronger on the puck. Stable, no. He’s a very aggressive player. It actually makes him a really effective defender 95% of the time but when he fails the other 5%, he fails spectacularly.

I think part of the issue is this play style doesn’t translate up the depth chart very easily. So despite being excellent on the third pair almost year in and year out, he hasn’t been able to stick higher in the lineup.
 
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tony135420

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sure, keep the guy you have sitting in the press box, and trade the guy you trust on the ice ...makes sense.
if someone is being shopped, its likely Holl rather than Dermott

it is entirely possible that they’re giving him top 4 minutes to showcase him.

it’s been done before.

personally I’d be more interested in moving Holl. But Dermott has slightly more value. I hope there’s another trade in the works for a depth defenseman. Seems like a risky move considering Lilly has only had a handful of games and Holl has been nothing like what they thought they were protecting in the expansion draft.
 

ottomaddox

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sure, keep the guy you have sitting in the press box, and trade the guy you trust on the ice ...makes sense.
if someone is being shopped, its likely Holl rather than Dermott

Sure, trade the guy who is struggling and all 31 teams will be happy to take him off TOR's hands for an upgrade.

:groucho:
 

ottomaddox

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"SPORTSNET: Luke Fox cited Elliotte Friedman and Nick Kypreos reporting the Toronto Maple Leafs have let the rest of the league know Travis Dermott or Justin Holl are available for the right price. Fox speculates that price is either “an upper-mid-round draft pick” or “perhaps a rugged d-man with less term on his contract.”

NHL Rumor Mill – November 6, 2021 | Spectors Hockey

I buy the rumour of Holl and Dermott being available, but I don't buy the speculation on what type of person they are looking for in a trade.

It has to be a Left Winger.

Bunting
Kerfoot
Mikheyev
Ritchie

^ This is not going to cut it if TOR wants to compete.
 

phillipmike

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I'm not saying Dubas is a great GM. I'm simply saying that if you accept the "assessment" of Holl being a #4, right shot defenceman with size who can play well on the shutdown pairing; then the McCann move was a very savvy one.



Not really. It's been 7 games of unspectacular play, versus 2 years of very solid play. Could the "evaluation" of Holl as a quality #4 defenceman be wrong? absolutely.... in the context of Holl as a quality #4 dman, the McCann move was quite savvy.



It's only potentially the wrong decision if you believe that the last 2 years of Justin Holl are an outlier.

That being said, even if they go 7-3-1, the Leafs of course had the problem that they couldn't afford to keep both McCann & Kerfoot, as they would have needed to go out and replace Holl.

And this is where you don’t understand, nothing you say carries weight for me as I don’t accept that assessment.

As I said before, Holl can play effective top 4 minutes. But he can’t do it over 82 game. And certainly not including the playoffs against harder competition. And certainly not on a team that aspires to win a Stanley cup.

So he is at best a tweener between the bottom pairing and top 4 which is why I had no issues exposing and losing him especially considering we had other options in Dermott, Sandin and Liljegren who are cheaper and have potential. Plus you had the entire offseason to replace Holl if you lost him.

Whereas the Leafs had 4-5 forward spots to fill with no one in the minors. Which is why I valued McCann more. They ended up spending money on guys like Ritchie, Kampf, Kase and Bunting and only Bunting is working out.

When it came to the players I valued at the time of the expansion draft including play, contract and how easy it is to replace the player I had;

McCann

Dermott
Holl


Kerfoot

Kerfoot is an ok player but making $3.5M to put up 40-45 points on a team that needed to spread its money out to get a different compliment of forwards wasnt and isn’t a good investment. I was in the boat to move him just to get his salary off the books.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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Trade Holl, then when Soup comes back, waive Engvall, then you have the cap space to make necessary deadline moves, assuming they put themselves in position to be buyers at the deadline
 

TS Quint

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Other than Phil Kessel probably would never step foot in Toronto again except as a visiting player it is the type of deal that would make sense.
I want it to happen just to watch Toronto media melt down.
Toronto needs a top 6 winger who has speed and can score in the playoffs. I assume Phil still can skate a little? Capobianco would fit their need for a 7th defense man that they can use in case of injury.
Also clears cap space in the off season for the Leafs.
As for Arizona Holl might be the perfect guy to pair with a Chychrun. Keeps his game simple and stays at home while Chychrun does his thing. He is cheap enough too.
You forget the Leafs actually own their media. They even made a big deal out of Galchenyuk. They hype train for Kessel would be bought, paid for and running off the tracks.
 

seanlinden

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And this is where you don’t understand, nothing you say carries weight for me as I don’t accept that assessment.

As I said before, Holl can play effective top 4 minutes. But he can’t do it over 82 game. And certainly not including the playoffs against harder competition. And certainly not on a team that aspires to win a Stanley cup.

So he is at best a tweener between the bottom pairing and top 4 which is why I had no issues exposing and losing him especially considering we had other options in Dermott, Sandin and Liljegren who are cheaper and have potential. Plus you had the entire offseason to replace Holl if you lost him.

Whereas the Leafs had 4-5 forward spots to fill with no one in the minors. Which is why I valued McCann more. They ended up spending money on guys like Ritchie, Kampf, Kase and Bunting and only Bunting is working out.

When it came to the players I valued at the time of the expansion draft including play, contract and how easy it is to replace the player I had;

McCann

Dermott
Holl


Kerfoot

Kerfoot is an ok player but making $3.5M to put up 40-45 points on a team that needed to spread its money out to get a different compliment of forwards wasnt and isn’t a good investment. I was in the boat to move him just to get his salary off the books.

Toronto's D last year was the best it has been in many, many years. For the first time in a very long time, it wasn't an area of concern, and Justin Holl was an important part of that.

Holl's had 7 bad games versus 2 years of really solid play that's well worth the $2m he makes and more. Dubas may still yet be proven correct in his assessment of Holl.

Furthermore, let's say they kept McCann and lost Holl via expansion, now they're way over the cap trying to dump Kerfoot, with only about $2.5m to spend replacing Holl.
 

phillipmike

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Toronto's D last year was the best it has been in many, many years. For the first time in a very long time, it wasn't an area of concern, and Justin Holl was an important part of that.

Holl's had 7 bad games versus 2 years of really solid play that's well worth the $2m he makes and more. Dubas may still yet be proven correct in his assessment of Holl.

Furthermore, let's say they kept McCann and lost Holl via expansion, now they're way over the cap trying to dump Kerfoot, with only about $2.5m to spend replacing Holl.

There is a difference playing against Edmonton, Winnipeg and Montreal as the top teams vs Tampa, Boston and Florida. The defence looked good for a reason last year and most of it was because of the lack quality of the competition.

McCann is better and cheaper than Kerfoot.

I would guess at $2.5M defencemen is better than a $2M one that isn’t playing right now and after a pretty good win streak, isn’t expected to get into the lineup anytime soon.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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There is a difference playing against Edmonton, Winnipeg and Montreal as the top teams vs Tampa, Boston and Florida. The defence looked good for a reason last year and most of it was because of the lack quality of the competition.

McCann is better and cheaper than Kerfoot.

I would guess at $2.5M defencemen is better than a $2M one that isn’t playing right now and after a pretty good win streak, isn’t expected to get into the lineup anytime soon.

Let's be fair they did beat Tampa and Boston this week and looked pretty good doing it to, and let's not forget Vegas.
 

Leaf Fans

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You forget the Leafs actually own their media. They even made a big deal out of Galchenyuk. They hype train for Kessel would be bought, paid for and running off the tracks.
It is the other way around for the Leafs- their media ( Rogers and Bell) own the Leafs.
 

Archijerej

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I'd offer Brett Kulak (retained to fit the Leafs' cap) and a 3rd round pick for Dermott.
 
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SeaOfBlue

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"SPORTSNET: Luke Fox cited Elliotte Friedman and Nick Kypreos reporting the Toronto Maple Leafs have let the rest of the league know Travis Dermott or Justin Holl are available for the right price. Fox speculates that price is either “an upper-mid-round draft pick” or “perhaps a rugged d-man with less term on his contract.”

NHL Rumor Mill – November 6, 2021 | Spectors Hockey

I buy the rumour of Holl and Dermott being available, but I don't buy the speculation on what type of person they are looking for in a trade.

It has to be a Left Winger.

Bunting
Kerfoot
Mikheyev
Ritchie

^ This is not going to cut it if TOR wants to compete.

That is a pretty good LW group... It obviously is not the high end of the center or right wing group, but if Ritchie is on our 4th line and Engvall is in the press box, we are doing pretty well.

Short of paying through the nose for a retained high end rental LW on a team that sells, I don't see what move can even be made to upgrade there.

And that kind of trade will almost certainly have nothing to do with Holl or Dermott. You are pigeon-holing our options that way when there could be a major market for either if picks are the expectation.

My gut feeling is the Leafs are looking for a team that will give them a late 2nd/early 3rd in 2022 + a very capable 6/7 defenseman who is practically at league minimum (or a mid-high 2nd straight up)... And I imagine it will be Holl that is moved before Dermott, considering Dermott is the one who is still playing in the lineup despite being a LHD on the right side.

The Leafs may include a prospect like Hollowell to sweeten the pot, or may need to find that 7th defenseman in a separate deal, but I don't imagine they deviate from that general request.
 

ottomaddox

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That is a pretty good LW group... It obviously is not the high end of the center or right wing group, but if Ritchie is on our 4th line and Engvall is in the press box, we are doing pretty well.

Short of paying through the nose for a retained high end rental LW on a team that sells, I don't see what move can even be made to upgrade there.

And that kind of trade will almost certainly have nothing to do with Holl or Dermott. You are pigeon-holing our options that way when there could be a major market for either if picks are the expectation.

My gut feeling is the Leafs are looking for a team that will give them a late 2nd/early 3rd in 2022 + a very capable 6/7 defenseman who is practically at league minimum (or a mid-high 2nd straight up)... And I imagine it will be Holl that is moved before Dermott, considering Dermott is the one who is still playing in the lineup despite being a LHD on the right side.

The Leafs may include a prospect like Hollowell to sweeten the pot, or may need to find that 7th defenseman in a separate deal, but I don't imagine they deviate from that general request.

Yeah, but your theory assumes that GM's only fulfill the fan's bloodlust. Right now Holl is struggling, and Leaf fans want him gone. Which team will give Dubas a decent pick or a player for him? Especially if his value is at an all time low. If Dermott has value, then value is what Dubas will get back in a trade.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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That is a pretty good LW group... It obviously is not the high end of the center or right wing group, but if Ritchie is on our 4th line and Engvall is in the press box, we are doing pretty well.

Short of paying through the nose for a retained high end rental LW on a team that sells, I don't see what move can even be made to upgrade there.

And that kind of trade will almost certainly have nothing to do with Holl or Dermott. You are pigeon-holing our options that way when there could be a major market for either if picks are the expectation.

My gut feeling is the Leafs are looking for a team that will give them a late 2nd/early 3rd in 2022 + a very capable 6/7 defenseman who is practically at league minimum (or a mid-high 2nd straight up)... And I imagine it will be Holl that is moved before Dermott, considering Dermott is the one who is still playing in the lineup despite being a LHD on the right side.

The Leafs may include a prospect like Hollowell to sweeten the pot, or may need to find that 7th defenseman in a separate deal, but I don't imagine they deviate from that general request.

I'd agree with you that the Leafs aren't likely to be pursuing a LW at this time, but to be fair, it is a quite unspectacular LW group; who maybe lack the "purpose" that the Leafs would want given who they have at C and on the right side.

Bunting brings energy and a little bit of finish; but not a ton of size / puck controlling / cycling ability. Ritchie was obviously brought in with the vision of bringing size to the top 6, so far he hasn't really worked out with very inconsistent play. Mikheyev's been injured, and Kerfoot, when he's a LW, is kind of just there. The main value he serves is the ability to play C if somebody gets hurt. Obviously, if Ritchie can turn around his play and Mikheyev get healthy, there's a lot less to be conrend about.

I'd also agree with you that the target is likely a draft pick (considering the Leafs have so few this year and last), plus a defenceman who fits better in a 6-7 role... theoretically a Bogosian-replacement who makes like $800k... or potentially a young centre prospect who's waiver exempt.

That being said, I do believe it would be Dermott that they're thinking to move... if you look at the Leafs last year, Dermott was finding his way in and out of the lineup with Sandin -- one of the reasons for that is that they play similar games. The Leafs had to keep Dermott, knowing that he gives them some flexibility if Rielly walks, as you could theoretically assemble a left side of Muzzin, Dermott and Sandin; and go spend money on the right / elsewhere. With Rielly signed, Dermott is kind of back into no-mans land of not being good enough to make Rielly/Muzzin replacable, and the younger / more upside Rasmus Sandin.

With Holl, as long as you believe he can rebound from his 7 games of poor play, even with Liljegren's emergence, there's still a pretty ideal spot for him on the right side, whether it's alongside Sandin on a 3rd pair, back with Muzzin as a shutdown pair, or even with Rielly if the Leafs decide they want to go with 3 reasonably balanced pairs.

I had read an article that suggested the concept of Robert Bortuzzo in St. Louis... to me this might be an ideal fit especially considering St. Louis lost Vince Dunn in the XD... something like Bortuzzo @50% retained and a 3rd round pick for Dermott.
 
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TOGuy14

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Dec 30, 2010
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The coyotes need a RHD to play with chychrun, who has been struggling this season without a consistent partner to bounce off of.

What’s the ask? Does he have top pairing potential left?

top pairing? No way

realistically he has way overperformed in third unit roles so ans rxfellend as a spot full on second pairing. I see him as a pretty reliable #4 going forward
 

phillipmike

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Let's be fair they did beat Tampa and Boston this week and looked pretty good doing it to, and let's not forget Vegas.

They did beat them, WITHOUT Holl which may support my position. However, it’s still early, if they can do well against those teams over 82 and in the playoffs then I’ll be one happy camper.
 

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