Rumor: Is Travis Dermott being shopped around?

[29Potvin]

LA could use a RD and I would love Lemeiux or Moore

 

[HockeyVirus]

Why are people dunking on the Leafs? Someone will get a pretty good dman if they get Dermott, it's not like he sucks. He's just a LD who is behind Rielly, Muzzin, and now Sandin. This season he has been asked to be a RD. He's been passed by Liljegren it seems, and Brodie is one of our best D.

So it's between Holl and Dermott. Holl has shown the ability to play on the shutdown pair the past 2 seasons, he is physical and plays a more traditional D game. Dermott is smart, makes good passes and plays, makes good defensive plays, but seems to lack being elite either offensively or defensively. He's just a good, all around smart player with no real elite quality.

I think if it is Dermott, this is just the Leafs valuing a RD who has played a more important role the past few years over Dermott ever breaking out as a RD.

Is it because they can't afford to keep Lilegren up once Mikhayev comes back?

The other option is to waive Engvall and replace him with Joey Anderson.

You say that like Engvall isn't a good top 9 forward lol.

 

[phillipmike]

because our defense is iffy (everyone has been complaining about it for years) and mccann was really not needed?

They why trade for McCann? Could have kept the pick and Hallander or used them in other deals. Not protecting McCann after trading for him made zero sense.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

They why trade for McCann? Could have kept the pick and Hallander or used them in other deals. Not protecting McCann after trading for him made zero sense.

To protect Kerfoot from getting selected instead.

Kerfoot has a lot more value to the Leafs, and in general, than Hallander... And if the Kraken chose Kerfoot instead of McCann, then at least they had McCann already there to replace Kerfoot, who would not have been easy/cheap to replace otherwise.

So it actually made a ton of sense.

 

[phillipmike]

To protect Kerfoot from getting selected instead.

Kerfoot has a lot more value to the Leafs, and in general, than Hallander... And if the Kraken chose Kerfoot instead of McCann, then at least they had McCann already there to replace Kerfoot, who would not have been easy/cheap to replace otherwise.

So it actually made a ton of sense.

No it doesnt. Because you could have made the trade and protected Kerfoot with the 7-3-1 route and let them take one of Holl or Dermott who are both arent playing well and are currently being shopped 10 games into the season. It just proves how stupid it was to make the trade and expose the player to "protect" Kerfott and Holl only to shop Holl a few months later after being a healthy scratch.

Protect Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Kerfoot, McCann, a 7th forward, Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie and Campbell,

Expose Holl and Dermott.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The thing with all of this is, I highly doubt the Leafs are willing to move either for cheap.

Worst case, they are quality depth in case of injuries or one of the young guys not being able to sustain their quality of play. We would have to pay at least a 4th round pick to get a cap-efficient rental at the TDL who is as good as they are.

Personally, I would be surprised if the Leafs consider anything less than a 2nd for either of them, and their asking price will almost certainly exceed that (and that does not imply they are asking for a 1st round pick either).

 

[belair]

To protect Kerfoot from getting selected instead.

Kerfoot has a lot more value to the Leafs, and in general, than Hallander... And if the Kraken chose Kerfoot instead of McCann, then at least they had McCann already there to replace Kerfoot, who would not have been easy/cheap to replace otherwise.

So it actually made a ton of sense.

They could've let Holl go and kept both forwards. Toronto's roster decisions haven't made a ton of sense dating all the way back to the Tavares signing.

When it comes to Dermott I see him as a guy who's closer to waiver material than one who's making an impact in someone's top four. The reason he's being passed by Sandin and Liljegren on their depth chart is primarily cost.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

No it doesnt. Because you could have made the trade and protected Kerfoot with the 7-3-1 route and let them take one of Holl or Dermott who are both arent playing well and are currently being shopped 10 games into the season. It just proves how stupid it was to make the trade and expose the player to "protect" Kerfott and Holl only to shop Holl a few months later after being a healthy scratch.

Protect Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Kerfoot, McCann, a 7th forward, Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie and Campbell,

Expose Holl and Dermott.

Holl is more valuable than Hallander too, and I think it is pretty obvious that losing a RD who was playing 20+ minutes at a high level despite only making 2 mill is not any better of a loss.

A lot easier to replace McCann than to replace Holl too. We are just fortunate, at least as of right now, that both Sandin and Liljegren have been top 6 caliber defensemen right now. That was not the likely scenario, and it just leaves us in a really good spot where we can now sell Holl for more than we paid to protect ourselves from expansion (or we can keep him and have 7 great defensemen in case of injuries).

Whereas if we lost Holl, and saw even just one of Sandin or Liljegren struggle, we are down to 5 NHL caliber defensemen. We may have a slightly better forward group, but the gap between Holl and a struggling young defenseman is much larger than the gap between McCann and our 5 candidates on LW right now (Kerfoot, Bunting, Ritchie, Engvall, and Mikheyev).

 

[phillipmike]

Holl is more valuable than Hallander too, and I think it is pretty obvious that losing a RD who was playing 20+ minutes at a high level despite only making 2 mill is not any better of a loss.

A lot easier to replace McCann than to replace Holl too. We are just fortunate, at least as of right now, that both Sandin and Liljegren have been top 6 caliber defensemen right now. That was not the likely scenario, and it just leaves us in a really good spot where we can now sell Holl for more than we paid to protect ourselves from expansion (or we can keep him and have 7 great defensemen in case of injuries).

Whereas if we lost Holl, and saw even just one of Sandin or Liljegren struggle, we are down to 5 NHL caliber defensemen. We may have a slightly better forward group, but the gap between Holl and a struggling young defenseman is much larger than the gap between McCann and our 5 candidates on LW right now (Kerfoot, Bunting, Ritchie, Engvall, and Mikheyev).

But instead we lost Hallander, the pick, McCann and Holl is a healthy scratch and is being shopped. McCann is playing better than Kerfoot. Doesnt matter how you shake it, it was a bad move when it was made and even worse now especially considering where Holl is just 10 games into the season.

The 2 players you wanted to "protect" - one is producing worse than McCann and the other isnt playing.

A lot easier to replace McCann than to replace Holl too.

And no it isnt. Go offer Holl for McCann or a player like McCann and the opposing GM says no.

The issue was the Leafs had options on D with Liljegren and Sandin. Lose Holl or Dermott and you have a D to step in.

McCann was a great trade and i gave Dubas props because when it happened i say McCann could replace Hyman. But lose McCann, and we had no replacements on the Marlies, hence why the Leafs had to sign 4+ forwards in Ritchie, Kase, Kampf and Bunting and only 1 is working out in Bunting.

 

[belair]

Holl is more valuable than Hallander too, and I think it is pretty obvious that losing a RD who was playing 20+ minutes at a high level despite only making 2 mill is not any better of a loss.

A lot easier to replace McCann than to replace Holl too. We are just fortunate, at least as of right now, that both Sandin and Liljegren have been top 6 caliber defensemen right now. That was not the likely scenario, and it just leaves us in a really good spot where we can now sell Holl for more than we paid to protect ourselves from expansion (or we can keep him and have 7 great defensemen in case of injuries).

Whereas if we lost Holl, and saw even just one of Sandin or Liljegren struggle, we are down to 5 NHL caliber defensemen. We may have a slightly better forward group, but the gap between Holl and a struggling young defenseman is much larger than the gap between McCann and our 5 candidates on LW right now (Kerfoot, Bunting, Ritchie, Engvall, and Mikheyev).

Knowing what you should probably know by now about him, maybe committing to Holl wasn't such a sharp plan. It seemed like a clear failure to properly acknowledge what this 29 year old defenseman actually is.

How difficult would it be for a defenseman to 'perform well' playing behind one of Toronto's scoring lines? Even re-signing Bogosian could've bridged that gap had all of Sandin, Lilegren or Dermott failed to do so.

They 'replaced' McCann with two years of Ritchie at $2.5m. And those poorly spent dollars add up quickly.

 

[OVO16]

Kings make a lot of sense as trade partners

 

[SeaOfBlue]

But instead we lost Hallander, the pick, McCann and Holl is a healthy scratch and is being shopped. McCann is playing better than Kerfoot. Doesnt matter how you shake it, it was a bad move when it was made and even worse now especially considering where Holl is just 10 games into the season.

The 2 players you wanted to "protect" - one is producing worse than McCann and the other isnt playing.



And no it isnt. Go offer Holl for McCann or a player like McCann and the opposing GM says no.

The issue was the Leafs had options on D with Liljegren and Sandin. Lose Holl or Dermott and you have a D to step in.

McCann was a great trade and i gave Dubas props because when it happened i say McCann could replace Hyman. But lose McCann, and we had no replacements on the Marlies, hence why the Leafs had to sign 4+ forwards in Ritchie, Kase, Kampf and Bunting and only 1 is working out in Bunting.

I have already explained many times back when it happened why this logic is flawed, and makes all of this seem worse than it actually is. I am not beating that dead horse again.

It is not very hard to understand the logic as to why the Leafs decided to do what they did, and why it was logically the right move (even now). Dubas explained it in a presser as well. If you are still confused, then go back to the threads of when it happened and you should be able to figure it out.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Liljegren emerging and becoming a regular is a good thing. Holl regressing was unforseen. And Dermott is still solid. Given hindsight exposing dermott and holl probably was the better better play but it is what it is. Who knows what one of the dman can bring back. People are too worried about the littlest things.

 

[phillipmike]

I have already explained many times back when it happened why this logic is flawed, and makes all of this seem worse than it actually is. I am not beating that dead horse again.

It is not very hard to understand the logic as to why the Leafs decided to do what they did, and why it was logically the right move (even now). Dubas explained it in a presser as well. If you are still confused, then go back to the threads of when it happened and you should be able to figure it out.

Then why explain it again? Dubas made a dumb move then that looks even dumber now, move along. You dont have to respond to everything you dont agree with.

It was a completely idiotic move that made no sense then and even now especially with Holl out of the lineup and being shopped.

 

[The90]

Knowing what you should probably know by now about him, maybe committing to Holl wasn't such a sharp plan. It seemed like a clear failure to properly acknowledge what this 29 year old defenseman actually is.

How difficult would it be for a defenseman to 'perform well' playing behind one of Toronto's scoring lines? Even re-signing Bogosian could've bridged that gap had all of Sandin, Lilegren or Dermott failed to do so.

They 'replaced' McCann with two years of Ritchie at $2.5m. And those poorly spent dollars add up quickly.

Are you for real?

He played damn well for 2 million. A top 4 RH shot #4 d man doesn’t grow on trees let alone one that is paid that little.

The McCann thing is overblown completely. Forwards were torontos position of depth and strength. They let a forward go to hang onto a top 4 d man. They gave Seattle the choice between kerfoot and McCann knowing that they’d have one of the 2 leftover to play in a middle 6 role. A middle 6 forward is much easier to replace than a middle pairing d man, let alone a right shot.

Also, how come we couldn’t replace McCann with bunting? What a steal! Oh right. That doesn’t fit what you’re trying to sell. Ritchie is the lone bad contract on the team, that was signed this summer. Kase, kampf and bunting have all been great.

Liljegren and Sandin playing well and pushing a bet out seems like a terrible problem to have. Whatever will the leafs do.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

What's a top 4D go for on a steal of a deal like that?

But FLA may be interested for real, maybe as more of a 7th but also #6 from time to time

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

What's a top 4D go for on a steal of a deal like that?

But FLA may be interested for real, maybe as more of a 7th but also #6 from time to time

Wasn't it Mackenzie Weegar in the summer of 2020? Wasn't there a rumored deal that was turned down revolving around these two as the main pieces?

 

[Nothingbutglass]

So Dubas thinks he has 7 NHL D and its a surplus? How often do teams get through a season using only 7 D with injuries etc?

 

[Martin Skoula]

So Dubas thinks he has 7 NHL D and its a surplus? How often do teams get through a season using only 7 D with injuries etc?

Such an idiot especially since you're not allowed trading for more Dmen with the cap space you accrue.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Such an idiot especially since you're not allowed trading for more Dmen with the cap space you accrue.

What?

 

[belair]

Are you for real?

He played damn well for 2 million. A top 4 RH shot #4 d man doesn’t grow on trees let alone one that is paid that little.

The McCann thing is overblown completely. Forwards were torontos position of depth and strength. They let a forward go to hang onto a top 4 d man. They gave Seattle the choice between kerfoot and McCann knowing that they’d have one of the 2 leftover to play in a middle 6 role. A middle 6 forward is much easier to replace than a middle pairing d man, let alone a right shot.

Also, how come we couldn’t replace McCann with bunting? What a steal! Oh right. That doesn’t fit what you’re trying to sell. Ritchie is the lone bad contract on the team, that was signed this summer. Kase, kampf and bunting have all been great.

Liljegren and Sandin playing well and pushing a bet out seems like a terrible problem to have. Whatever will the leafs do.

Very real. Pretty easy to see a vanilla defenseman's game evaporate when the team in front of him gets weaker. I was calling the Ethan Bear trade nearly a year in advance. It's easy to see the roster priority.

You are currently looking at a weaker Toronto roster than last year because losing Hyman is making a much larger impact than losing Holl ever would have. Holl was a placeholder. A guy that could handle the competition with the other four guys on the ice driving the bus. That was valuable at the time in terms of his cap hit but it should've been apparent that his role was going to be increased when the forward depth was stretched even thinner.

The McCann trade was a shrewd move. And had they protected him and had they protected Kerfoot, there's a very good chance Ritchie doesn't get signed to a $2.5m cap hit. Bunting still might. He signed for $900k.

The only thing I'm selling is that Dubas' moves this summer were jittery. They were made by a management group that doesn't have a handle on their cap situation. And you can look through my post history to last season and the year before that and the year before that. That team is structured to shed vital depth year after year.

The one top six forward they acquired this summer was lost to Seattle in expansion. And he was lost because they decided to protect a defenseman sitting in your press box.

 

[The90]

Very real. Pretty easy to see a vanilla defenseman's game evaporate when the team in front of him gets weaker. I was calling the Ethan Bear trade nearly a year in advance. It's easy to see the roster priority.

You are currently looking at a weaker Toronto roster than last year because losing Hyman is making a much larger impact than losing Holl ever would have. Holl was a placeholder. A guy that could handle the competition with the other four guys on the ice driving the bus. That was valuable at the time in terms of his cap hit but it should've been apparent that his role was going to be increased when the forward depth was stretched even thinner.

The McCann trade was a shrewd move. And had they protected him and had they protected Kerfoot, there's a very good chance Ritchie doesn't get signed to a $2.5m cap hit. Bunting still might. He signed for $900k.

The only thing I'm selling is that Dubas' moves this summer were jittery. They were made by a management group that doesn't have a handle on their cap situation. And you can look through my post history to last season and the year before that and the year before that. That team is structured to shed vital depth year after year.

The one top six forward they acquired this summer was lost to Seattle in expansion. And he was lost because they decided to protect a defenseman sitting in your press box.

1. Hyman and Ethan bear have 0 bearing on this conversation. No idea what you’re going on about there.

2. Holl was absolutely not a placeholder last year and played really well as a #4 d last year. He had a slow start this year and liljegren played so well when slotted in he’s now watching from the press box.

3. How come you get to zero in on 1 bad contract by what maybe a million for Ritchie? Yet you give no recognition of his good contracts. As I mentioned and you ignored because it doesn’t go with your nonsensical ‘they have no plan’ argument, Kase, kampf and bunting all make up for a overpay on Ritchie.

4. In what world do the leafs not have a handle on their cap situation? It’s a joke you’re even saying that. You can argue certain players get paid too much blah blah blah but every year they make it work. How many years now has that big bad cap been finally coming to get the leafs now?

From an asset standpoint Holl makes 2 million. Not a big deal if he’s sitting in the press box or on the third pairing. Literally a million and change over the league minimum salary. You’re acting like he’s paid 5 million and is sitting.

5. the one asset they acquired purposely to lose in the expansion draft, was lost in the expansion draft. Shocking stuff I know. Not sure how you’re not getting they literally knew their cap situation, and acquired a player with the intention of letting him be acquired so they still had kerfoot on their team. That quite literally is management and a long term plan. If you can’t see that, you’re just looking for reasons to nit pick.

 

[belair]

1. Hyman and Ethan bear have 0 bearing on this conversation. No idea what you’re going on about there.

Ethan Bear, like Justin Holl, saw his game elevated by elite linemates. Place either one of those guys in a bottom pairing role with checking lines and either one of them turns into a pumpkin.

Ken Holland traded Bear for an impactful third line winger and the Oilers filled from within. Kyle Dubas kept Holl, watched his forward depth thin out and unsurprisingly the defensemen are buckling under the increased workload.

They've always been in similar situations because neither is an actual top four defenseman.

I'm not going to address the rest of your post because I'd be repeating most of what I said in the post you quoted. For the record though Kase and Kampf have a combined 2 goals and 1 assist over what's nearly 11 games now and together they're a -11.

I'm not picking and choosing Ritchie either. I'm saying they wouldn't have signed him if they were spending $7m on Kerfoot and McCann. It would've been entirely unnecessary and probably not possible.

 

[kilowatt]

LA could use a RD and I would love Lemeiux or Moore

Lemieux and Moore are more untouchable to me than some of our better prospects. I refuse to trade them, perfect bottom six guys.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Former surefire top pair d man Dermott on the outs?

Color me shocked he didn't live up to that unrealistic hype...

Edit: the revisionist history happening now in replies denying these claims happened is comical. The posters denying it may not have been the ones saying it, but many (not all) leaf fans talked him into being a first pair d man when he first came up and looked like a player.

Yep. The word “untouchable “ was even used when he first broke into the league.