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Is this leafs team likeable?

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Teeder Keon said:
here’s a little New York for you ..
thanks Captain obvious high-liner
Now Go eat some fish sticks ...Gary Howitt

WE DONT NEED U da da da da da
WE DONT NEED U da da da da da
WE DONT NEED U da da da da da







Wink wink
We will see you in the playoffs
Now go out to Nassau and drown
Lol
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I actually live in Boca Raton, haven't been to the Coliseum since about 15 years ago but I do catch the games down here. LOVED Gary Howett. Talk about a guy who made something of himself . . .
 
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The Leafs team is likeable by the opposition, because they're easy to play against.

Malkin was chomping at the bit to get out on the ice, drooling at the opportunity to play the Leafs.I'd imagine lots of teams circle the Leafs on the schedule and look forward to a likeable matchup.

The things that make them an easy mark are the things that make them unlikeable as a Leaf fan.

Bad defensively, push around physically and low effort performances are things that make the Leafs unlikeable.

If we had a hard working team, that turned up the intensity and battled for every inch on the ice with a never quit attitude then win or loose they would be likeable and easily supportable.
 
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I'm one the few Islander fans that remembers we traded Brian Spencer for Lorne Rombough! Don't forget Earl Ingerfield as interim coach. Then Torrey finally got it right . . .

Two great things about the 1st 2 years. To build a fan base they gave us kids $3 tickets in the upper deck behind the goals and they actually designed a separate entrance/exit for a drop off/pick up zone so parents could drop their kids off and pick them up after the game with ease. I've never seen anyone else do that since.
 
Don't need to like them but:

"You are about to exceed the limitations of my medication" Foghorn Leghorn
 
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leeroggy said:
As an outsider, here's what I am seeing.

In a way you did us a favor with signing JT. Even though it would have been okay to see how Trotz would have handled him, there's been a flaw to him that is really getting magnified with this season. I'm a pretty good judge of people due to my career and I've always been struck by what I see as his low emotional IQ. In his days on the Island I never saw a person who was truly comfortable with the full range of leadership. He was far more comfortable with the physical side of that (work effort, offseason work, etc.) but terrible at the verbal side of it.

And I think that because of his early years (the junior hockey waiver, the acclaim and the accolades in his junior career) he learned to be too robotic in how he interacted with people and the media, seeking affection and approval instead of being willing to put himself on the line. He was never the type in NY to kick someone in the ass, which is necessary once in a while if you are an effective leader. The stats were there on the ice but there were some really bad habits he had here too on the ice. He never really learned how to play in the defensive zone at the level necessary for example. Compare that to Barzal, who is really an Alpha male verbally and in seeking out a leadership role, and who willingly took a step back last year to inculcate what Trotz taught, and look at him now. Even JT's attempt at humor with Barzal ('that kid who won the Calder') backfired as seen by how Barzal talks about JT now.

He came into a situation with players that we can honestly say are works in progress when it comes to maturity in Matthews, Marner, etc., and that's where his reluctance to kick it in verbally is hurting the team as captain. He didn't have to deal with those types of personalities on Long Island. Compare that to captains like Yzerman, Messier, Clarke, Potvin and today's contemporaries like Crosby, Chara, Weber and some others. One thing that should have been a warning sign is his Team Canada play, where he clearly relished being the supporting player instead of demanding a leadership role. There's something missing here.

For all the issues in the construction of the team (I think the toughness issue is very true, but maybe even more mentally than physically, although physical toughness does mean a lot to mental confidence in the NHL) you still need your captain to hold others accountable, even if it means losing some popularity with them. I'm sure there were a few of Messier's teammates over the years who secretly wanted to ***** about him, but wouldn't dare. I don't see JT as having that sort of willingness to lead.

If it were me I would see about trading Matthews (the Kadri trade was a disaster to me as he could easily handle the 2C in Matthew's absence). A few other pieces could go too and I'm guessing if you open space up you could make a run at Greiss as a FA. This is really a tough situation for you unless the Cap does go up a decent amount with Seattle and the new TV deal. If there were ever a time to take a step back to take two steps forward this is it. One little thing I noticed in so many games, from all your defensemen: how many times way they allow passes to get through them on 2 on 1's. Since Pee Wee, defenders are taught to take away the pass but I'd bet big money your team leads the league in letting up 2 on 1 goals because of that flaw.
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Interesting points about the personality and verbalization. I think you’re bang on.

He was never my pick for captain. I’m never in favour of giving it to the new guy, but particularly one with the personality I think you’ve accurately described.

I googled the comments from Barzal. Hadn’t heard that either. Ouch.


You’ve hit on most of this but there’s a lot of options before you consider trading Matthews. He definitely deserves criticism for some inconsistent play, but there’s wayyy too much there to give up on him right now.
 
Do you guys have a link to the Barzal comments on JT? Is this what you're referring to?

TSN’s Frank Seravalli asked #isles Barzal: “What has been the one singular difference that you’ve noticed from this team?” Matt’s reply: “No one is treated any differently, it doesn’t matter who you are.”

If this is it, it's a shot at the old coach and not JT.
 
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Kurtz said:
Do you guys have a link to the Barzal comments on JT? Is this what you're referring to?

TSN’s Frank Seravalli asked #isles Barzal: “What has been the one singular difference that you’ve noticed from this team?” Matt’s reply: “No one is treated any differently, it doesn’t matter who you are.”

If this is it, it's a shot at the old coach and not JT.
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But the treatment of JT by Weight in not being held accountable for things like poor defensive zone coverage, VERY long shifts, including overtimes where staying on the ice too long directly leading to lost games because he couldn't get back, and other things we Isles fans watched over and over again (if you go back to the summer threads you'll see some of us warned you about that) and that's what Barzal is referring to. Weight coddled JT at times and covered for JT while benching Barzal (and Barzal's close buddy Beauvillier) for the same things. Clutterbuck was JT's closest friend on the team and he's been sniping this year too.

Don't kid yourself, the Isles success has something to do with how the players felt slighted too, not just the organization and the fans. Trotz's FIRST WORDS to the team the first day were a) the defense is easy to fix and b) think about JT leaving as he didn't think much of playing with you guys going forward.
 
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the best captain is the one who never upsets his teammates. Other than rookies everybody in the locker considers everyone else their rival. Nobody wants their rival acting like they are above them. Some guys can pull it off being a motivational speaker but it's pretty rare and it's always risky for a player to start lecturing coworkers on how to do their jobs. That can go wrong in a hurry. If I'm naming captain I'm not naming the biggest personality in the room I'm naming the quiet allstar who sets an example by playing hard and being a professional day in and day out. Being a bit awkward actually helps along those lines. Leave the motivational speaking to some random old veteran Chad in the locker who I can get rid of when they eventually start coming across as arrogant and getting on everyone nerves.
 
leeroggy said:
But the treatment of JT by Weight in not being held accountable for things like poor defensive zone coverage, VERY long shifts, including overtimes where staying on the ice too long directly leading to lost games because he couldn't get back, and other things we Isles fans watched over and over again (if you go back to the summer threads you'll see some of us warned you about that) and that's what Barzal is referring to. Weight coddled JT at times and covered for JT while benching Barzal (and Barzal's close buddy Beauvillier) for the same things. Clutterbuck was JT's closest friend on the team and he's been sniping this year too.

Don't kid yourself, the Isles success has something to do with how the players felt slighted too, not just the organization and the fans. Trotz's FIRST WORDS to the team the first day were a) the defense is easy to fix and b) think about JT leaving as he didn't think much of playing with you guys going forward.
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Gotcha, but again, this seems to draw a hard contrast between Weght and Trotz, rather than a repudiation of JT. No Leaf fan has any issue with JTs defensive play or his shifts being too long (quite the contrary, he's not being played enough). So once more, I don't really see an attack on JT, but rather Weight.

It is rather amazing what a coaching change can do for an organization.
 
When i saw a nr 50 in goal again it remember me of Jonas Gustafssons time in Toronto and the leafs are as bad right now as they where then sadly
 
ashs said:
Would rather watch a losing team play with heart than a bunch of mercenaries pretend to try.
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With the money the Me 3 are making and the way they handled their negotiations, an honest effort isn’t even good enough for me anymore. Anything less than a cup is failure. This team is/was talented enough to win the cup. If the Leafs don’t win in the few years, I will blame these contracts. Both because it took up all our cap space, and also because it will probably affect the rest of team morale too.
 
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Good time for me to chime in here I guess.

Crap rolls down hill. I hated the Shanahan hiring. I hated it because he was a detested Dead Thing. I also hated it because I saw nothing on his resume that would indicate he was qualified to be President of the Leafs. He had no business background. He had no team executive/personnel background. The hiring smacked of an all image/no substance hire. Just afamous hall of fame dude fans and media would know and tie to success.

And I had the same sense of him that Chelios has of him...insincere...a politician...a dressing room lawyer.

Also, he had sex with a teammates wife.

Doesn't even live in Toronto...commutes back and forth from NY.

He just smelled dirty to me.

Of course, he won me over. Winning cures all! Learned to like him fine right up until this year. Now I'm getting all those old feels back.

Yesterday, was Shanahan at his douchey best. My favourite part of his PC was reminding the entire press corps that he flew in from Toronto to do it face to face! Oh what sacrifice! What a stand up dude! Everyone knew he had flown in but of course he had to remind everyone.

Can't stand the man and he leaves a big stink on the Leaf but if we win a playoff series I'll probably get back to liking him.
 
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Mess said:
The Leafs team is likeable by the opposition, because they're easy to play against.

Malkin was chomping at the bit to get out on the ice, drooling at the opportunity to play the Leafs.I'd imagine lots of teams circle the Leafs on the schedule and look forward to a likeable matchup.

The things that make them an easy mark are the things that make them unlikeable as a Leaf fan.

Bad defensively, push around physically and low effort performances are things that make the Leafs unlikeable.

If we had a hard working team, that turned up the intensity and battled for every inch on the ice with a never quit attitude then win or loose they would be likeable and easily supportable.
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one or two bad asses , then teams my not be so excited to play us.
Marchant being all cocky and confident to play us.
don't think any team is worried about breaking a fingernail.
 
Likable?...lol

This team has been unwatchable for the last 1.5 years. I don't care how skilled they are in some areas, they are horrible defensively, and worse yet, afraid of the opposition. They are soft and embarrassingly subservient to their alpha male counterparts. Let's call them the Jonas Segal's of the NHL. I love when Carlo C goes after that mouthpiece for Corsi boy, and DESTROYS his arguments.
 
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The leafs sure were a heck of a lot more likeable last night.
Amazing how removing one arrogant prick can improve things so much
 
leeroggy said:
Weight coddled JT at times and covered for JT while benching Barzal (and Barzal's close buddy Beauvillier) for the same things. Clutterbuck was JT's closest friend on the team and he's been sniping this year too.

.
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So Weight was tough on Barzal? I can't swallow that narrative.

Barzal had 82 points with Weight and won ROY . Trotz spent the first 2 months of last year dropping media bombs on Barzal while limiting his ice time and talking abiout how much better Barzal needed to be.

To me it looks like Weight never made him accountable for his defense, shoddy faceoff %, and, overall, was too easy on him. Trotz needed to go in there and teach the kid old school how to be a 200 foot center.

It seems like it wasn't only Tavares getting the easy treatment under Weight.
 
Sweet Leaf said:
So Weight was tough on Barzal? I can't swallow that narrative.

Barzal had 82 points with Weight and won ROY . Trotz spent the first 2 months of last year dropping media bombs on Barzal while limiting his ice time and talking abiout how much better Barzal needed to be.

To me it looks like Weight never made him accountable for his defense, shoddy faceoff %, and, overall, was too easy on him. Trotz needed to go in there and teach the kid old school how to be a 200 foot center.

It seems like it wasn't only Tavares getting the easy treatment under Weight.
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Yep, sure. Whatever.

Those of us who actually watched all the Isles games that season know nothing. Invented all the benchings in the 3rd periods that we saw. You're the perfect example of a cynic; you know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Barzal and Beauvillier were the whipping boys that year when a mistake was made. JT would give away games with his defense and lengthy shifts. AND NEVER PAY A PRICE.

Believe what you want.
 
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