krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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Is there an issue with Finnish development system ?
- Thread starter ViD
- Start date
I think Finland represents pretty well for having such a small population. 5.5M? The GTA is bigger than that. Sweden and Czechia are almost twice the size.
WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
- 31,620
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Yes but hockey is more popular and prolific than in Sweden or Czechia.
In the CZ there are much smaller numbers of local arenas. In this regard, Finland is far superior to CZ.
I don't have that detailed information about how Swedes do their things, so I'm the wrong guy to answer that question for you, but I'm sure there are wiser guys here on these forums that can answer that question instead better.
However, it's certain that Swedes got more money involved in their league, Swedish Elite League compared to the Finnish equivalent, Liiga. More money often means better professional coaches and players hired. If a junior player in Sweden is very high level, he can practice and compete with better players and have better coaching before going to the NHL. Then the gap to NHL isn't that big anymore. By better coaches, I don't mean that Swedish head coaches are better than Finnish head coaches, but the overall structure of the coaches and the coaching system might be different because of budgets. Also more coach personnel in Sweden possibly, is my guess.
Play style wise, I think that Swedish hockey focuses more on skating, while in Finland/Liiga, it's more tactical and in some ways slower. We know how important skating is in NA, so transferring there should be easier because of that.
One other thing I can think of is that Liiga is a closed league at the moment in terms of promoting & relegating teams. So no team can rise to the top level from the first division. It has been closed for a very long time and many people think that it's causing damage to Finnish ice hockey in many ways. The deciders are planning to open the league very soon though. In 1-3 years if I can recall.
ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Actually it was good thing in bigger picture we didn't win nothing and finished 4th place.
Winning a medal would've given wrong signal to our hockey association and authorities.
And they would've said ''everything is OK no need to changes''.
Now they cannot use that excuse and they have to react and start making changes.
Finnish junior coaching and player development needs to question right here and right now.
Ladies and gentlemen's we ( Finland ) SUCK.
Winning a medal would've given wrong signal to our hockey association and authorities.
And they would've said ''everything is OK no need to changes''.
Now they cannot use that excuse and they have to react and start making changes.
Finnish junior coaching and player development needs to question right here and right now.
Ladies and gentlemen's we ( Finland ) SUCK.
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
One significant difference is that in Sweden they encourage every defenseman to play with puck very actively. And that's why Sweden produces quality d-men every year but how about Finland? Finland has 2 legit top-4 d-men in NHL, Heiskanen and Lindell. The rest of them are 3rd pair material.
Biggest difference is skating, Finland is behind Sweden, USA, Canada and Czechia.
Agree...you can see the upper echelon teams along with Czechia and Slovakia seem to have better skating ability team-wide. Finland, currently, doesn't have that and it's noticeable.
I assume it's going to get a lot worse too in the next 10-20 years because the birth rates have plummeted which means that, firstly, there's simply going to be much smaller generations where to pull talent from and secondly, because of those smaller generations, organized hockey is going to get even more expensive than it currently is. So there's going to be far fewer kids in absolute numbers, and off those kids, smaller % will have the opportunity/interest to play hockey.
Finland's population actually has exceeded 5.6M for the first time in history. Because of all crisis in the world thus immigration. While birth rates are at all time low. So it's pretty hard to gauge talent from nothing.
There is just 1 good Finnish D-man in the NHL at the moment.
Coaching is total crap. Making blunders every move. I would say coaching is the biggest issue.
Retired NHLers are supposed to be good coaches?
Maximum expect to see Finland half ass efforts in bronze games in the future.
There is just 1 good Finnish D-man in the NHL at the moment.
Coaching is total crap. Making blunders every move. I would say coaching is the biggest issue.
Retired NHLers are supposed to be good coaches?
Maximum expect to see Finland half ass efforts in bronze games in the future.
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Jukurit
Registered User
- May 16, 2022
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Feels like Finland should be a lot better at hockey than they currently are. Unlike in a lot of other "hockey countries", hockey is #1 sport in Finland. Then why do Finnish players struggle so much at skating? Why does Finnish hockey struggle so much at producing good d-men? Why is quality of Liiga so bad? "Small population" feels like an excuse to me. I think Finland should better at hockey than they currently are.
Various valid questions here, but any negative reference to the U20 tournament may be an overreaction. This is a game of moments and fine margins. Finland was 2-0 up in the semis and very narrowly lost 2-3; had they managed to get the W, regardless of the outcome of the gold medal game, everyone would speak of this tournament as a tremendous Finnish success. Likewise, the tournament would be regarded as relatively successful (albeit with a painful semifinal loss) had the bronze medal game ended a mere minute before it ended… Small margins.
Ezpz
No mad pls
- Apr 16, 2013
- 15,346
- 11,870
Finland had a huge problem after Mikko Koivu with developing talent then had a little resurgence from 2013-2018 or so. They must have stopped investing after their golds cause they seem back in the dead zone.
It's not just ebbs and flows of small hockey nations. Slovakia similarly developed nothing for twenty years, brought jn Satan and remade their system and suddenly have a dozen notable prospects.
The US NTDP model should be copied by smaller nations.
It's not just ebbs and flows of small hockey nations. Slovakia similarly developed nothing for twenty years, brought jn Satan and remade their system and suddenly have a dozen notable prospects.
The US NTDP model should be copied by smaller nations.
It's kind of funny but the US model is at least partially inspired by what the former soviet block developed (USSR and Czechoslovakia). Basically to concentrate the best prospect to a small number of development centers with high competition.
USNTDP is pretty much the Soviet system, indeed. And it is the most effective way of developing top talent, no question about it. Although some would say that it limits the opportunity for players who aren't at the highest of levels around the ages of 17 or 18. Still, I don't think that it would be received very well in Finland, unfortunately, since it seems like in Finland, everyone must always receive equal opportunity so that no one feels bad.
ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Also covid19 pandemic did damage to Finnish hockey
when all hoceky activities were under total shutdown and lockdown.
That caused many families who had hockey kids retired hockey totally.
Finland is losing elite athlete talent to other sports like football / soccer, basketball etc.
Lauri Markkanen had allstar season in NBA last year that is causing basketball boom in Finland.
Finnish kids wants to become now new Lauri Markkanen than new Miro Heiskanen.
It is matter of time when Basketball is number1 sport in Finland instead of hockey
and Lauri Markkanen has significant role on that.
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ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Hockey is not number1 sport in Finland into future.
Basketball is getting bigger and bigger and guess
who's impact on that is huge? yeah Lauri Markkanen.
If / when our hockey association will not react and start doing changes now
they will lose more elite sport talent to Basketball etc and then Finnish hockey will be destroyed.
Also football might play a role here with the popularity of Huuhkajat. Much cheaper for a young player than hockey. Many talented athletes play both untill about sixteen.
Jukurit
Registered User
- May 16, 2022
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Most Finns in this thread are saying that Finnish hockey has problems. Most Non-Finns in this thread are saying that Finnish hockey doesn't have problems. I wonder which of these 2 groups (Finns, Non-Finns) knows more about Finnish hockey. hmm.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
sdf
Registered User
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
You have to be pretty tall to play basketball, i don't really see basketball stealing kids to play to play that instead of hockey.
But hockey is very expensive hobby, football(soccer) and floorball are much cheaper and Finland is doing well in floorball. Recent success in football has most likely grown the numbers in there.
And you have to remember, the average finnish person is not a sports junkie but a success junkie. Basketball boom is prime example of that.
While Finns have first-hand knowledge of what's going on, sometimes an outside perspective is a little less emotional and biased.
Would there be so much concern if Finland hadn't blown that bronze medal game yesterday? Finland's won medals in 6 out of the last 8 Winter Olympics (pro tournaments except the Gold they won in 2022). 2 Golds and 3 Silvers in the last 10 World Championships. 2 Golds, 1 Silver and 1 Bronze in the last 10 World Juniors. 2 of the Top 10 NHL players in scoring at the moment. From the outside, it looks like things are going pretty well.
Honestly, the bronze didn't matter that much. It was more about how everything happened.
It was a miracle that Finland was able to get that far (4th) with that kind of penalty killing. Literally every time there was a PP for opponent, opponent would score. The only question was, how many seconds it would take for the opposing team to score. Very often it took just 10-12 seconds. It was more of Finland's weakness than opponents' PP ability, because it was a repeating pattern game after game.
Add to that the fact that Finland's own PP was also below average. Usually a team can't go far with just even strength play.
Then there was the thing that the coaching staff wasn't able to coach second periods. Choosing the starting goalie wasn't so great either. #1 goalie with 1-4 record, while the back up goalie had 2-0 record, with one win against Sweden.
On top of this all, the Finnish press said during the tournament that this same head coach would be continuing next year. I don't think a single Finnish ice hockey fan wants to see that, except that coache's wife maybe.
