Is there a problem?

[Ianturnedbull]

This thread made me chuckle. I’d wager 90% of players for 90% of teams don’t care what team they play for, and there is nothing personal. It’s a business, it’s their job.

They aren’t indoctrinated in like many fans, and they don’t have an irrational mob mentality like them either. It’s summer, a lot of you need to go touch grass.

Hi five

There’s the Canadian factor as well. it’s obvious that like Calgary, Montreal and Winnipeg, Toronto is not a favoured destination at this point. I discussed this in another thread briefly but aside from the economics of it you can see that players are not endorsing the current management group or core 4 players. Nobody in the league at this stage believes that this core group is good enough to win the cup... except Shanahan. Call me crazy but maybe Shanahan doesn’t really care about a cup. Maybe his priority and ownerships priority is the regular season.

What is the "Canadian factor"? Are you saying all these Canadians don't want to play in Canada because it sucks? How could you say Shanahan doesn't want a cup. His name is on it.

Your antics are so wild that you must be trolling at this point.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What is stopping you from cheering for PIT?

Not caring in the slightest about Pittsburgh. I'm a life long Leaf fan, and you don't abandon your team because ownership made a stupid decision.
Newsflash: people don't actually have attachments to GMs. Some of us can just recognize when we have a good one, and want to keep them, after decades of trash ones.

Dubas said we're going to be a soft team, different, that was him.

Dubas never said or did anything close to that, and in fact built much tougher and grittier teams than his predecessor and successor.

 

[GoonieFace]

Not caring in the slightest about Pittsburgh. I'm a life long Leaf fan, and you don't abandon your team because ownership made a stupid decision.
Newsflash: people don't actually have attachments to GMs. Some of us can just recognize when we have a good one, and want to keep them, after decades of trash ones.

Dubas never said or did anything close to that, and in fact built much tougher and grittier teams than his predecessor and successor.

Than your recognition skills are severely lacking. Dubas is a fraud, he’s already up to his old tricks in his new home. What a mess he left

 

[LastOne2100]

So, you have the ability to accurately predict the future, and saw the coming Covid epidemic, and the resulting crash in league wide revenues, and the subsequent flat cap?

God I hate how much everyone lets Dubas and co off the hook with this.

First, the cap was only projected to go up marginally, definitely not enough to get us out of cap hell.
Second, everyone at the time knew that, even with cap increases, it would be hard to fit the roster under the cap. This was not some magic surprise years later (remember we can and we will?).
Third, few other GMs got themselves as screwed as Dubas got himself as they didn't base their entire plan on a theorized future salary cap increase with no plan B.

At the end of the day, they were trying to predict the future - gambled and lost. It is 100% fair to blame them for that. Everyone at the time understood the implications of the signing against our salary cap structure, stop pretending they didn't.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Hi five


What is the "Canadian factor"? Are you saying all these Canadians don't want to play in Canada because it sucks? How could you say Shanahan doesn't want a cup. His name is on it.

Your antics are so wild that you must be trolling at this point.

Shanahan already knows that the current mix of core players and coach isn’t good enough to win a cup. He’s choosing to roll it back out despite this knowledge. What other possible conclusion is there except that Shanahan is placing a higher priority on the regular season.

Taxes are way higher in Canada so that’s a clear problem. It means that Canadian teams must overpay to compensate the player for the extra taxation. It’s been well documented how expensive real estate is in the GTA. While obviously an NHL player can still afford a mortgage they could probably get a better deal in some US markets. Lastly you have the media scrutiny in major Canadian markets which can place enormous pressure on players every game. One mistake and they get skewered for days or weeks. Other factors include rising crime. Marner was actually carjacked in the city. That might increase his asking price on a new contract by $500k AAV.

None of that is hyperbole. Just facts.

 

[Craig Button]

I think there are character issues on the Leafs, but we're listening to ROR comment about character now?

This is the same ROR who drove so drunk that he crashed into a freakin' Tim Horton's and then fled the scene. And he wasn't 18....he was 24.

OMG you're right and the guy got away with it.
Pure scum. Lost all respect for him.
Drunk driving at 4am.
Leaves (leafs?) the scene.
And gets away with it because our justice system is a total joke.

Buffalo Sabres’ Ryan O’Reilly acquitted of impaired driving charge in coffee shop collision

The version of events given by a Tim Hortons employee, the crucial identification witness for the Crown, was, as O’Reilly’s defence lawyer said, ‘fundamentally flaw…

nationalpost.com

 

[Dekes For Days]

Than your recognition skills are severely lacking. Dubas is a fraud, he’s already up to his old tricks in his new home. What a mess he left

No, I recognize what we had perfectly fine. Seems you don't. He left us in a good position, and unfortunately, it's going downhill fast so far. Hopefully Treliving improves.

 

[andora]

There’s plenty of cap space and roster flexibility. Star players get paid. Look at other competitive clubs. There’s a group of 4-6 guys making significant cap and a bunch of interchangeable parts

This while " true " is very disingenuous

 

[LastOne2100]

No, I recognize what we had perfectly fine. Seems you don't. He left us in a good position, and unfortunately, it's going downhill fast so far. Hopefully Treliving improves.

How exactly did he leave us in a good position? He walked all of our stars to UFA as quickly as possible, and after giving them top dollar - which is where we are right now - completely screwed about to either have to massively overpay or lose them.

I love watching the rest of the league signing their young stars to 8 year deals of reasonable AAV.

Dubas is lucky he was fired before having to fix the mess he made here, otherwise it would've finally been obvious how much he f***ed this franchise. I feel bad for Treliving having to figure out his way out of this.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

At this point I don't care anymore, if they are successful great, if they fail thats fine to. It's a hockey team and hockey should be fun, if it's not we can always step away and take a break.

 

[IPS]

No, I recognize what we had perfectly fine. Seems you don't. He left us in a good position, and unfortunately, it's going downhill fast so far. Hopefully Treliving improves.

But Lou left the Leafs in a worse position with the big 3 still under control for years to come as RFA's.

The standard changes everyday

 

[IPS]

Not caring in the slightest about Pittsburgh. I'm a life long Leaf fan, and you don't abandon your team because ownership made a stupid decision.
Newsflash: people don't actually have attachments to GMs. Some of us can just recognize when we have a good one, and want to keep them, after decades of trash ones.

You hitched your wagon to Dubas and that's your reputation on these boards probably forever now.

 

[notbias]

But Lou left the Leafs in a worse position with the big 3 still under control for years to come as RFA's.

The standard changes everyday

years? Since when?

Lou left the Leafs in a good position with bad flexibility.

Dubas left the team in a good position with good flexibility.

 

[notdoneyet]

Our whole problem is matthews

He is controlling our team with his me first attitude

Everyone is bowing down to his demands. Cant sign anyone to multi year deals because we dont know the greedy pricks cap hit.

He doesn’t have the win at all cost attitude that real great players have. He is what he is a very good goal scorer who disappears when the going gets tough. Of course teams will play him tougher but instead of fighting through the aggression he backs off. If you give stamkos mackinnon or pasternak a cheap shot you better be careful because they are coming right back at you. Matthews smiles and hits them with his man purse.

He is 100 per cent our problem and management enables him to be.

 

[notdoneyet]

years? Since when?

Lou left the Leafs in a good position with bad flexibility.

Dubas left the team in a good position with good flexibility.

Are you watching the same team as everyone else.
Do you really believe that dubas left us in a good position.

Dubas left us with no draft picks in a great draft
Gave the top three players NMC to coincide with his contract ending
Apart from knies we dont have one draft pick playing on the team in 7 years of everyone saying how great he is at drafting
Crippled our cap by givjng stupid contracts so four players take up half our cap

And you can say that dubas left us in a good position
Lol

 

[Metroid]

Making
Lots
Stupid
Executive Executions

 

[notbias]

Are you watching the same team as everyone else.
Do you really believe that dubas left us in a good position.

Dubas left us with no draft picks in a great draft
Gave the top three players NMC to coincide with his contract ending
Apart from knies we dont have one draft pick playing on the team in 7 years of everyone saying how great he is at drafting
Crippled our cap by givjng stupid contracts so four players take up half our cap

And you can say that dubas left us in a good position
Lol

He left our prospects in a good position instead of our picks... we haven't traded a significant prospect in a while.

NMCs are standard for stars, this has become a talking point of the ignorant.

Next year we likely have Knies, Robertson, and Holmberg starting at the very least.

The cap structure is similar to a lot of teams, but ya, the flat cap sucks, it screwed us.

And you say you follow the team.
Lol

 

[Dekes For Days]

He walked all of our stars to UFA as quickly as possible, and after giving them top dollar - which is where we are right now - completely screwed about to either have to massively overpay or lose them.

He did not "walk all of our stars to UFA as quickly as possible". UFA years were bought in all of their contracts, and they received contracts with common terms that were consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts. We don't have to overpay or lose them, and we actually still have all of them on their old contracts this year, with space set to open up for their future increases.

But Lou left the Leafs in a worse position with the big 3 still under control for years to come as RFA's.

Nylander needed a new contract immediately, and Matthews/Marner needed a new contract within a year (not to mention the other RFAs), after Lou/Babcock strained the relationship with them, attempted to neuter them - creating the circumstances for a more difficult negotiation, and didn't leave space or a plan for those increases. And that's before we get to the fact that Lou also left everything outside of that as a mess.

You hitched your wagon to Dubas

The only thing I hitched my wagon to was the Leafs. A Leaf fan supporting a Leaf GM that benefits the Leafs does not equate to a wagon being hitched to any individual.
Perhaps spend more time figuring out what your wagon is hitched to, instead of attempting to incorrectly hitch other people's wagons.

 

[RoadWarrior]

OMG you're right and the guy got away with it.
Pure scum. Lost all respect for him.
Drunk driving at 4am.
Leaves (leafs?) the scene.
And gets away with it because our justice system is a total joke.

Buffalo Sabres’ Ryan O’Reilly acquitted of impaired driving charge in coffee shop collision

The version of events given by a Tim Hortons employee, the crucial identification witness for the Crown, was, as O’Reilly’s defence lawyer said, ‘fundamentally flaw…

nationalpost.com

If you actually read the article ROR claims he wasn’t driving and the employee couldn’t ID him. It’s not that uncommon for friends to drive each others vehicles. Is that reality? I have no idea but he wasn’t convicted after being charged. If the system was completely corrupt nobody would’ve even heard about this and no charges would’ve been laid at all.

it also raises the obvious question. If ROR is being so pampered in Ontario why would he leave for Tennessee?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Shanahan already knows that the current mix of core players and coach isn’t good enough to win a cup. He’s choosing to roll it back out despite this knowledge. What other possible conclusion is there except that Shanahan is placing a higher priority on the regular season.

Taxes are way higher in Canada so that’s a clear problem. It means that Canadian teams must overpay to compensate the player for the extra taxation. It’s been well documented how expensive real estate is in the GTA. While obviously an NHL player can still afford a mortgage they could probably get a better deal in some US markets. Lastly you have the media scrutiny in major Canadian markets which can place enormous pressure on players every game. One mistake and they get skewered for days or weeks. Other factors include rising crime. Marner was actually carjacked in the city. That might increase his asking price on a new contract by $500k AAV.

None of that is hyperbole. Just facts.

Taxes are a good thing. Does your Mother-in-law have cancer? Mine does. If it wasn't for our taxes she would likely be dead. She could not afford the treatments like it costs in the US. Why do you think every pro althlete detests taxes. They don't. You're projecting a lot of personal ignorance as far as I can tell.

Shanahan already knows that the current mix of core players and coach isn’t good enough to win a cup. He’s choosing to roll it back out despite this knowledge. What other possible conclusion is there except that Shanahan is placing a higher priority on the regular season.

Taxes are way higher in Canada so that’s a clear problem. It means that Canadian teams must overpay to compensate the player for the extra taxation. It’s been well documented how expensive real estate is in the GTA. While obviously an NHL player can still afford a mortgage they could probably get a better deal in some US markets. Lastly you have the media scrutiny in major Canadian markets which can place enormous pressure on players every game. One mistake and they get skewered for days or weeks. Other factors include rising crime. Marner was actually carjacked in the city. That might increase his asking price on a new contract by $500k AAV.

None of that is hyperbole. Just facts.

You cannot come on this site and re-invent what facts are.

 

[Dekes For Days]

First, the cap was only projected to go up marginally, definitely not enough to get us out of cap hell.
Second, everyone at the time knew that, even with cap increases, it would be hard to fit the roster under the cap. This was not some magic surprise years later (remember we can and we will?).
Third, few other GMs got themselves as screwed as Dubas got himself as they didn't base their entire plan on a theorized future salary cap increase with no plan B.

None of this is true.
First, the cap was projected to skyrocket, with new franchises, new TV deals, new revenue sources, etc. on top of the usual increases we saw throughout the cap era.
Second, while it was widely acknowledged that 2019-2020 would be a tight fit, with all of the contracts (star and depth) recently signed and at/near peak cap hit percentage, it was also widely acknowledged that things would open up quite a bit more as the cap rose. It stagnating for the first time in history, and then for multiple years due to a global pandemic, was certainly a surprise.
Third, the fact that the cap rises is inherently built into all contracts. That factors into every comparable across the league throughout the cap era, and every single GM works under the same rules. You can't just change the rules by telling your player that a once-in-a-century global pandemic could hit, players could accumulate a billion+ dollar debt, and the cap could be abnormally manipulated to stagnate it for multiple years, so we're going to pay you less in case that happens. That's not how this works. What made the cap stagnation uniquely affect us more than others was the fact that it happened directly after we locked in a significant portion of our cap to long-term deals.

 

[rocketman588]

The Pits forum is funny as people are questioning why they are building the roster that way.

Their versions of the Dubas boys are blaming it on Sullivan and saying he's the one actually making the roster moves

Sounds familiar never Dubas's fault

 

[rocketman588]

He left our prospects in a good position instead of our picks... we haven't traded a significant prospect in a while.

NMCs are standard for stars, this has become a talking point of the ignorant.

Next year we likely have Knies, Robertson, and Holmberg starting at the very least.

The cap structure is similar to a lot of teams, but ya, the flat cap sucks, it screwed us.

And you say you follow the team.
Lol

We have 1 NHL ready prospect drafted by him in 5 years

What a legendary draft guru

 

[pcruz]

OMG you're right and the guy got away with it.
Pure scum. Lost all respect for him.
Drunk driving at 4am.
Leaves (leafs?) the scene.
And gets away with it because our justice system is a total joke.

Buffalo Sabres’ Ryan O’Reilly acquitted of impaired driving charge in coffee shop collision

The version of events given by a Tim Hortons employee, the crucial identification witness for the Crown, was, as O’Reilly’s defence lawyer said, ‘fundamentally flaw…

nationalpost.com

I always get a kick out of the ignorance regarding the process and goals of the justice system in countries of the Western world.

 

[notbias]

We have 1 NHL prospect drafted by him in 5 years

What a legendary draft guru

Robertson or Holmberg? Is Knies not one?

You can fault him for signing/trading for better players than Sandin/Durzi, so they are playing full seasons with other teams.